Fatal accident at La Feria Chapultepec Magico

[MKvillalba]

Hello everyone, as some of you know, La Feria and SFM are my home parks. I'm still shocked and saddened by this terrible news, as far as I remember this is the first fatal rollercoaster accident in Mexico, and knowing it happened on one of my most beloved rollercoasters makes it worse. My thoughts are with the victims' families and with the park staff in this difficult times.

 

As you may expect, at this time it's really complicated to find accurate information with all the sensationalist media spreading lies and questionable 'facts'.

 

 

That being said, what we know it's that thorough investigations are underway and the park will remain closed until further notice.

 

I will try to keep you updated

[ThrillDude200]

When I first saw "Derail", I immediately guessed Pinfari.

[Bamwa]

As a fabricator/welder for 20 plus years, metal can fatigue and fail drastically and instantly. It may have no visible cracks even showing so there is no real way to tell. Maintenance may be just fine with all axles, joints, and wheels perfect and lubed, bolts and pins shiny and new, but if the carriage mounting holes rip and send the bogey flying that is more initial design than lack of maintenance. It wouldn't be feasible to xray every weld on the entire coaster and trains morning. Besides that, the failure may not even be at a weld so you would also have to xray all the metal besides the welds if that's what you guys mean by maintenance.

[tanthonyam]

My god this is terrible! I rode this about 4 years ago. I wonder if it will be removed now and scrapped?

[bill_s]

A comparison is that Mindbender was 3 months old when its accident happened. Probably wasn't built right and they assumed it was brand new... Meanwhile Chimera is 35 years old and operated for its first 12 years on the German fair circuit before settling for a while in Malaysia, England and Mexico. El Toro Ryan's video from early this year showed the park doing severe trackwork.

[Markieb]

It's been so long since I've posted on a board as I lost of lot of interest when I lost my home park , ASTROWORLD.

Forgive my ignorance but is this TAZ's Texas Tornado from ASTROWORLD? It certainly looks like the ride I rode at AW.

 

It's very sad regardless of the reason.

[coastered]

It's been so long since I've posted on a board as I lost of lot of interest when I lost my home park , ASTROWORLD.

Forgive my ignorance but is this TAZ's Texas Tornado from ASTROWORLD? It certainly looks like the ride I rode at AW.

 

It's very sad regardless of the reason.

No, Taz was the former Thriller, a different Schwarzkopf coaster with four vertical loops.

But Taz also finally ended in Mexico. Sadly it is removed from that park a couple of years ago and probably scrapped

[hoppedup]

This is terrible.

 

From what I am reading about Mindbender, the trains were redesigned after the accident. Does anyone know if this coaster got the same train redesign/modifications?

[A.J.]

From what I am reading about Mindbender, the trains were redesigned after the accident. Does anyone know if this coaster got the same train redesign/modifications?

Not particularly. I believe that when Flamingo Land in the U.K. picked it up they attached backpack straps to the seats, but the trains have been the same otherwise.

 

That being said, the trains were completely torn down to their chassis(es?) when it was moved to La Feria. See here: https://rcdb.com/3605.htm#p=16503

[Bamwa]

If you zoom in at those pics in that link at pic #41, you can see underneath where the wheel assembly bolts up. (Near the Pepsi Cup) Pretty thin and also boxed. Box shapes can hold water and rust internally as we learned with the Ohio State Fair accident.

 

Seem like the same failure as in this video..

 

[ReplicaOfLife]

According to this article: http://www.coastersandmore.de/rides/olympial/olmain.shtml, the track layout of Dreier Looping (= Montana Infinitum / Chimaira), featuring almost only right turns, rather unsurprisingly causes one-sided wear on the train chassis / axles (the passage is in the second paragraph of the 'Projekt Nr. 8509 section). This was already noticed by showman Barth in the 80ies, so he had the Olympia Looping designed to feature curves in both directions.

So, this coaster indeed has a design flaw (and so does Mindbender, being its bigger mirror image). Still, it ran without problems for 35 years.

It's for experts to determine whether the cause for the accident was material fatigue because of the one-sided wear, or bad maintenance, or a combination of the two. Or something else entirely.

[Bamwa]

How many of these style trains are still out there running is the question now. Should they ground the entire fleet to inspect or modify? Does this mean all Schwartzkopfs are at risk of this problem :/?

 

This shows the coasters still operating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Schwarzkopf Which is still a good number and would mean a lot of costly repairs/reinforcements. I know nobody here wants any shut down but are we at risk? I realize how popular these are with y'all.

[Invertalon]

I don't buy all right turns being a design flaw. Or any part of this a design flaw. Improper maintenance, absolutely.

 

Personally, the fact that this happened on two of these ride types, at this age, hint to me that fatigue failure was the culprit. Usually, failures like this occur with little warning unless inspections are thorough (via one of the many non-destructive testing methods). That being said, we don't know good/bad this park is with their maintenance program so it's all just speculation.

 

After 35 years and likely well over a million cycles, while the trains may have been designed properly for such service, over time any corrosion, material fractures unseen with the human eye, damage to any welds, etc... Could lead to such a failure. If there was a real flaw in design, it would have likely occurred well before 35 years of service.

 

Unfortunate incident, but it likely was completely avoidable.

[coasterbill]

I guess we’ve reached the “crazy speculation because we can’t wait for the investigation results” part of the thread.

 

How many of these style trains are still out there running is the question now. Should they ground the entire fleet to inspect or modify? Does this mean all Schwartzkopfs are at risk of this problem :/?

 

The fact that American parks have not closed their Schwartzkopfs out of an abundance of caution like they normally would implies that they’re pretty confident that that this was isolated for whatever reason.

Edited October 2, 2019 by coasterbill

[A.J.]

How many of these style trains are still out there running is the question now. Should they ground the entire fleet to inspect or modify? Does this mean all Schwartzkopfs are at risk of this problem :/?

Pretty much every large Schwarzkopf coaster since 1976, and all the way up to as new as 1989, has some iteration of that train design. The exceptions are the West Edmonton Mindbender for obvious reasons, the traveling coaster Teststrecke which received new trains from Zierer, and Tsunami which received new (but similar) Wieland Schwarzkopf trains when it was Zonga at Six Flags Discovery Kingdom. Also, Sooperdooperlooper and Psyke Underground received new trains from Gerstlauer.

 

Schwarzkopf coasters technically aren't sold anymore and the company technically doesn't exist anymore, so it's not like they can perform recalls or issue notices to stop operation (unlike KMG after the Fireball / Afterburner incident). Now, if, say, Gerstlauer had provided a new set of trains for Quimera like they did for Sooperdooperlooper, THEN they would likely be facing at least a little bit of scrutiny.

[coasterbill]

Oh yeah, I know that the parks can't be mandated to stop operation but I still feel like they probably would if they were even remotely concerned. That said, I'm sure this is all subject to change depending on the results of the investigation. I'm not implying that their instincts on this are right nor wrong because I have absolutely zero knowledge of the mechanics of coaster trains and I don't pretend to.

Edited October 2, 2019 by coasterbill

[Bamwa]

 

The fact that American parks have not closed their Schwartzkopfs out of an abundance of caution like they normally would implies that they’re pretty confident that that this was isolated for whatever reason.

 

Well like most giant companies they would rather ignore it or cover it up until they can't. Recalls are a bitch, and without oversite like the FAA for airplanes, I'm sure they would keep any accidents/associations on the downlow as to not hurt ticket sales.

 

Next question....is there an world or u.s. amusement ride safety oversight group or just individual state inspections?

[coasterbill]

[Well like most giant companies they would rather ignore it or cover it up until they can't. Recalls are a bitch, and without oversite like the FAA for airplanes, I'm sure they would keep any accidents/associations on the downlow as to not hurt ticket sales.

 

Parks don't want accidents. You can't keep them "on the downlow" and you can't cover them up in the age of social media. Closing some old Schwartzkopfs for a few days or even weeks would likely have no impact on attendance whatsoever at any American park. I think it's pretty safe to say that if any parks in America thought (as of now) that they might have the same issue then they would voluntarily close and inspect their rides considering the financial consequences of doing so are most likely nonexistent since every Schwarzkopf looper in America is located in a pay-one-price park.

 

That doesn't mean things can't change based on what comes out of the investigation of course.

Edited October 2, 2019 by coasterbill

[AdventuresinAirtime]

From what I am reading about Mindbender, the trains were redesigned after the accident. Does anyone know if this coaster got the same train redesign/modifications?

Not particularly. I believe that when Flamingo Land in the U.K. picked it up they attached backpack straps to the seats, but the trains have been the same otherwise.

 

That being said, the trains were completely torn down to their chassis(es?) when it was moved to La Feria. See here: https://rcdb.com/3605.htm#p=16503

 

When it was in the UK at Flamingo Land, it had 5-point safety harnesses like you'd see installed in a race car. Thankfully I managed to ride it a few times as a kid, I really enjoyed it.

 

Its wierd to think about such a brutal accident happening on a ride I was on (albeit a long time ago).

 

I'd hazard a guess and say the intensity of these rides, combined with age and it being difficult to spot defects in rides; means this sort of thing could easily happen to a lot of coasters if not thoroughly inspected very regularly. I imagine as these rides from defunct manufacturers get older, finding spare parts is harder, and so things may be repaired a lot more often than in the past; where perhaps brand new spare parts would have been possible to get easily.

 

^ This is all just speculation/my opinion though.

 

What a shame to lose lives because of this

[Bamwa]

I think it's pretty safe to say that if any parks in America thought (as of now) that they might have the same issue then they would voluntarily close and inspect their rides considering the financial consequences of doing so are most likely nonexistent since every Schwarzkopf looper in America is located in a pay-one-price park.

 

I think it's equally safe to say no park in America has done anything except "Tell me when the investigation comes out, Shirley". Business as usual..... If they even care. What's the point of "Have a look at the last car Mechanic Bob" if a visual inspection turns up nothing. Xray or sonic testing would be cost something more than Mechanic Bob and I'd imagine and it's equally plausible they wouldn't just go that far without prodding from the gp or anyone else.

 

One could call SFOT and ask if they xrayed the last car on Shock Wave where the wheels attach, but, 1. would they even answer the phone? and 2. If they did would they even be truthful about it? and 3. Would they even take that step without 7 on your Side or someone investigating? Lastly 4. What about all the lesser parks? Who's gonna prod them?

 

Seriously, if the two accidents are the same thing, I don't feel good about getting in that last car honestly. At least on versions with heavy laterals. I think everyone should be apprehensive right now. Like Boeing, once is one thing but twice is something else, and right now it looks like the same accident again.

[AmyUD06]

Two possibly-but-not-definitely related accidents separated by 30+ years. Yeah, there's totally a connection there.

 

Seriously how gullible are you people?

[coasterbill]

God this thread has gone crazy...

[A.J.]

I think it's equally safe to say no park in America has done anything except "Tell me when the investigation comes out, Shirley". Business as usual..... If they even care. What's the point of "Have a look at the last car Mechanic Bob" if a visual inspection turns up nothing. Xray or sonic testing would be cost something more than Mechanic Bob and I'd imagine and it's equally plausible they wouldn't just go that far without prodding from the gp or anyone else.

I'm not sure you're giving maintenance teams in the U.S. enough credit.

 

These are people who are trained to work at parks with ten or more roller coasters and even more flat rides and other attractions. Obviously they can't have every detail of every bolt of every attraction memorized in their head, so they do what you're supposed to do - read the freaking manual. If the manual says, "hey, do a complete teardown of the train after X amount of operating hours", that's what you do, because the last thing you want is to be even partially responsible for an incident at your park.

[Bamwa]

Two possibly-but-not-definitely related accidents separated by 30+ years. Yeah, there's totally a connection there.

 

Seriously how gullible are you people?

 

Insult me because I see a connection? IT"S the SAME TRAIN breaking in the SAME SPOT. I can handle your jabs but not you misunderstanding of metal fatigue. To say it's not possible they are related is gullable if you know the definition of that word.

 

P.S. To you and Coaster Bill, Having a discussion about this shouldn't make anyone heated, but here we are. Settle down folks. We can all have opinions. It's funny you both are getting bent actually.

[coasterbill]

P.S. To you and Coaster Bill, Having a discussion about this shouldn't make anyone heated, but here we are. Settle down folks. We can all have opinions. It's funny you both are getting bent actually.

 

Heated? I don't really know why you lumped me into this post but okay