When did the practice of restraint checks by employees start

[DirkFunk]

On the topic of. Cedar fair... Why did they add seat belts i their htpera while SF (the one who had the accident that likely caused it) does not?

 

You'd need to ask Rob Decker why it is seat belts have been added to every single ride in the chain except trains and some flumes.

[robbalvey]

The main thing that I don't understand is why don't they actually put some effort into it if they're going to insist on checking/pushing down your restraint. I've seen countless times at Magic Mountain alone where they don't even push or pull on your restraint, they just lightly touch it, and then don't allow you to assist any further. Like when I was on Tatsu and the guy didn't even push on my restraint and I asked him to please click it till it felt snug, and he rudely replied: You're fine. Then when I asked again a bit more forcefully, he said: YOU'RE FINE!!!

The ride op is 100% correct and doing his job in this situation. Sorry that you were scared of the ride, but honestly, you're fine. You stopping the ride op TWICE to ask to have your restraint re-checked actually delayed the dispatch of the train. Don't do this again!

[JT325]

I glanced through and saw someone mention the first thing that came to my mind: SF Great Adventure, 1987.

 

What a horrible and careless mistake that was. Yup... Six Flags started coming up with all these crazy rules after that. One that seemed to be new at the time was employees checking every single restraint. Before that, it was a visual and maybe a thumbs up. Man did rides dispatch fast!

 

Six Flags has been at the root of several strange and/or long-lasting rules/colors (orange restraints; grey undercarriage/bogies), etc.

 

Good to see Cedar Point still dispatch relatively quickly even with all the checks.

[WestCoasterKing]

I support seat belts. In the unlikely and rare if ever chance the bar failed you won't die. I don't care if it adds a few seconds to the dispatch. Ratchets and hydraulics and everything else can fail. It would be a freak accident but that's why we have redundancies. In case of freak accidents. I had the OTSR fail on a Fireball once. The buckle saved my life. My personal opinion is that seatbelts should be the law. Period.

[scottm13]

The main thing that I don't understand is why don't they actually put some effort into it if they're going to insist on checking/pushing down your restraint. I've seen countless times at Magic Mountain alone where they don't even push or pull on your restraint, they just lightly touch it, and then don't allow you to assist any further. Like when I was on Tatsu and the guy didn't even push on my restraint and I asked him to please click it till it felt snug, and he rudely replied: You're fine. Then when I asked again a bit more forcefully, he said: YOU'RE FINE!!!

The ride op is 100% correct and doing his job in this situation. Sorry that you were scared of the ride, but honestly, you're fine. You stopping the ride op TWICE to ask to have your restraint re-checked actually delayed the dispatch of the train. Don't do this again!

Thank you. Working at a B&M hyper my biggest pet peeve is when guests freak out before dispatch after their restraint has been checked because it is not stapled to their body, and ask a ride op to come and push it down another click, delaying a dispatch. Same at inverts and flyers.

 

I don't know if this has changed but you can see in the beginning of this video that restraints on Silver Star at Europa park are not checked physically unless it is a large rider:

 

I know Whizzer at SFGAm restraints are checked Disney esque where they ask you to pull up on the seatbelt yourself.

 

To those thinking that restraints have been checked since the beginning of coasters are not informed. Whizzer at SFGAm opened without a restraint! And most coasters did not have airgates until a decade or so ago. I know on a lot of older wooden coasters that opened with buzz bars the restraints would be checked as the train was dispatching or not at all.

 

Also, seatbelts on most rides are totally unnecessary. Thankfully Six Flags did not follow cedar fair in adding seatbelts to their hypers and arrow coasters. Hundreds of millions of rides have been given on B&M hypers without incident. They are fail safe... Whole point of a restraint. The seatbelts on OTSR rides are actually there to limit the size of guests who can ride and that is their only purpose. The restraints can not fail! Unless of course you are at a park like Mt Olympus where I would not trust the restraint. But any major theme park inspects every restraint every day. A seatbelt is completely unnecessary.

[WestCoasterKing]

Nothing is fail safe. Any mechanism can fail. The fact is that they have failed on rare occasions. Checking something daily didn't keep it from failing. Millions of people fly every day without incident but occasionally something fails and people die. The fact remains that not one guest has fallen from any ride that had properly working seat belts. But in the past year alone several have from rides without them. I don't know about you but that tells me something.

[Jew]

Interesting topic. Here's another question to add to the discussion...

 

Is Disney the only park where the ride ops DO NOT TOUCH the restraints themselves, but instead the operators tell each guest to check their own restraint while they watch?

 

Does anyone else think this is actually way more efficient and safer/more comfortable for the guests besides me?

 

And if yes to that last question, why aren't other parks adopting this system????

 

Don't quote me on this being fact, but the urban legend I always hear is that Disney always lists themselves as the manufacturer of their rides. If that's the case, they can make their own rules. Other parks are bound by what the manufacturers themselves say has to be done.

 

If that were the case, then we'd see the same alterations across all rides instead of on a park-to-park or chain basis and the same exact safety procedures everywhere in the world. See also: Cedar Fair & Seat belts, European parks use of "self restraint check".

 

Parks are still free to go above and beyond the manufacturers guidelines. If they want a modification, they'd still need manufacturer approval. But if you're a manufacturer and company tells you "hey, I want seatbelts too"---you're going to do it to keep them happy. Worldwide standards also vary (TUV in Europe, ASTM here).

 

In the the case of Disney, my understanding is imaginerring takes on a lot more of the engineering work than a typical park, thus they call themselves the manufacturer and subcontract ride vendors to build their designs.

 

To Robb's point, I prefer Disney's method too. Easier for ride ops and removes the awkwardness of a ride op reaching towards you.

[scottm13]

Nothing is fail safe. Any mechanism can fail. The fact is that they have failed on rare occasions. Checking something daily didn't keep it from failing. Millions of people fly every day without incident but occasionally something fails and people die. The fact remains that not one guest has fallen from any ride that had properly working seat belts. But in the past year alone several have from rides without them. I don't know about you but that tells me something.

What ride has someone fallen out of at a major theme park because of a restraint failure in the past 20 years(carnivals and my Olympus excluded)? Restraints are fail safe... And then there is a second fail safe device. So even if somehow one ratchet or hydraulic fails there is a second one as well. Both systems would have to fail at the same time... Airplanes and a coaster restraint are not the same thing. When has anyone said flying is 100% safe. And by your logic we can't trust the seatbelt either because that could fail as well!

[mordecai-75]

^ New Texas Giant

[knaiwear]

I think the point was a "restraint failure" as in a restraint that came loose and ejected a rider. That was not the case on Tx Giant.

[mordecai-75]

^ Verrückt

[scottm13]

^ Verrückt

Ntag was a ride operator not properly enforcing the ride access policies and allowing a morbidly obese woman to ride with the lapbar on her squishy stomach and not her lap. No mechanical failure.

 

I'm not sure how a raft going airborne with a rider secured by a seatbelt on a waterslide would constitute adding seatbelts to all roller coasters.

[mordecai-75]

^ Rock-O-Planes at Lake Winnie

[knaiwear]

New information has been released in the accident on a ride at Lake Winnie on Saturday.

 

In a statement to Channel 3, Dwayne Garish, the Georgia Fire Marshal’s said that keys were in all the doors on the ‘Fly-O-Plane ride.’

 

“Our investigation has shown so far that when the keys are in the doors the doors are latched too. As stated before, our investigation to date indicates that these safety devices all operated correctly and have not been altered,” Garish said.

 

The investigation is still ongoing and open at this time.

[mordecai-75]

^ Then how did they fall out??? Post the results of that investigation, if there ever are any.

[scottm13]

That ride does not have the failsafe restraints present on modern theme park rides. If it is the same as what I have seen it is literally a bar with an end that is held in place by the door being closed and a latching pin. I don't know of any coasters that a ride operator places a single piece of metal in a hole to hold you in. Perhaps this ride should have had a failsafe backup! But for the other 99.999% of rides that don't hold you in by a pin we are safe without a seatbelt. Like I said every ride should have a failsafe restraint. If it does there is no need for a seatbelt beyond the increased perception of safety by the guests.

[robbalvey]

^ Then how did they fall out??? Post the results of that investigation, if there ever are any.

WTF? We're talking about B&M flyers and modern rides and you bring up an accident where it was proven the restraint was not a fault, a water ride with a velcro strap which isn't even CLOSE to being the same thing we were discussing, and then a ride from like 45 years ago.

 

Stop being such an obnoxious asshole. No one cares about the invalid point you're trying to make. Thanks.

Edited May 4, 2017 by robbalvey

[mordecai-75]

I don't like the seatbelts and extra stuff not needed as well, i was just trying to say that i also don't mind the precaution being there. Accidents do happen, it's good to know that a park puts the effort in to prevent them as much as possible. Nobody wants to visit a place that they expect to have a wonderful time at, then have it end up in tragedy. So whatever a particular park see's fit to justify daily operational standards by their terms is ok with me. Wasn't this thread about restraint checks? Let it be done without complaint, it does more good than harm.

[robbalvey]

I'm going to point this out just so you're aware for future posts and maybe you'll think twice about where to conclude your thoughts next time....

 

I don't like the seatbelts and extra stuff not needed as well, i was just trying to say that i also don't mind the precaution being there. Accidents do happen, it's good to know that a park puts the effort in to prevent them as much as possible. Nobody wants to visit a place that they expect to have a wonderful time at, then have it end up in tragedy. So whatever a particular park see's fit to justify daily operational standards by their terms is ok with me.

This is a perfectly well-written thought that intelligently presented your argument, and for that I thank you.

 

Wasn't this thread about restraint checks? Let it be done without complaint, it does more good than harm.

This is the part that made you sound like an obnoxious asshole. It was not needed and adds nothing to your overall thought other than perhaps giving yourself less credibility to the reader.

 

Please carry on discussion now...

Edited May 4, 2017 by robbalvey

[mordecai-75]

^ I wrote that as a response to the previous post before yours, The site informed me that you had posted in-between, so i proof read and found that it still fit. I don't see how my last line came off as obnoxious, but i do appreciate your complement on the majority of my post. Thank you Robb.

[robbalvey]

It was your condescending tone. "Wasn't this thread about restraint checks?" Like, no shit as it's in the fucking title. You're just posting that to talk down to either myself or whoever else your thought was directed at. It wasn't needed and it devalued the rest of your post. I'm here to help you make better posts. No need to give me crap about it.

 

Can we please move on now? Thanks...

Edited May 4, 2017 by robbalvey

[scottm13]

At what point is the ride considered safe? Should everyone be required to sit in a full body harness and bolted to the vehicle to maximize safety? Because who knows, if a failsafe restraint isn't safe than how can we trust a seatbelt that is also a mechanical device. I am picturing that this is how all coasters should be:

 

A good video showcasing what is going on when you hear the clicks on a restraint: https://youtu.be/9wi2wIB9IJ4

[WestCoasterKing]

Okay, I admit I can't think of any non-carnival cases at a "major" park where a restraint failed. Even my Fireball was at a carnival. That said the belts still don't bother me. I don't see how added redundant safety systems are ever a negative thing. I do agree with Rob though, Disney has the best system. Their lines move fast.

[DirkFunk]

Parks are still free to go above and beyond the manufacturers guidelines. If they want a modification, they'd still need manufacturer approval. But if you're a manufacturer and company tells you "hey, I want seatbelts too"---you're going to do it to keep them happy. Worldwide standards also vary (TUV in Europe, ASTM here).

 

My point here is really that this is easy to nitpick to death. "Park operators must follow the manufacturer's guidelines" is the classic sort of old wives tale that becomes part of historical fact when it isn't. It isn't in ASTM guidelines. There are some states which indicate this in their bylaws (OH), others which don't (NJ), and some which have no regulation whatsoever (AZ, KS).

[Mr. Corn]

The other main problem I've also seen is employees not even checking them on rides that it's nessecary due to design. Such as on that Tatsu dispatch, he just put 2 fingers on the OSTR and didn't push or pull, and since it's almost impossible to shut your restraint more than a click or two due to the ride's design, you are solely dependent on the op to actually secure your restraint. Like I'm 5' 1", so when a B&M flyer dispatches and I've barely had 1 click, it isn't secure, not unsecure to the point I'd fall out, but definitely unsecure. I was running to put 4 people's stuff away, but due to extreme congestion and a chaos filled station, I was running back to my seat and the foot pieces lock. But due to employees not caring, they were about to finish our row without fixing that. And before I get a snarky comment that I should have been faster or something like that, I counted 5 people on our train alone that had that problem, so I'm not sure if that's an oftenly occuring problem, but did it happen a lot from the 3 trains I was in, or saw from the station