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Glenwood Caverns Discussion Thread


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I had to go back to the prior report. Sounded like she wasn't fastened correctly, or at all. 

 

I think speculation was that she was sitting on top of the belt (IE the ride was sent empty, and she hopped on the belt, which would have been locked in). If this were the case, the op would have checked the belt and saw it was clipped in (but not on). Isn't this still negligent? It may not have been on *purpose*.... But isn't that... Negligent? 

 

I'm so confused by this. Of course nothing will bring her back, but there has to be an explanation as to what happened. 

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1 hour ago, BotanicalStig said:

I had to go back to the prior report. Sounded like she wasn't fastened correctly, or at all. 

 

I think speculation was that she was sitting on top of the belt (IE the ride was sent empty, and she hopped on the belt, which would have been locked in). If this were the case, the op would have checked the belt and saw it was clipped in (but not on). Isn't this still negligent? It may not have been on *purpose*.... But isn't that... Negligent? 

 

I'm so confused by this. Of course nothing will bring her back, but there has to be an explanation as to what happened. 

Would have to prove negligence beyond a reasonable doubt, as you stated. Its a very high standard and I agree that it would be tough to prove. 

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6 hours ago, Haymaker said:

Would have to prove negligence beyond a reasonable doubt, as you stated. Its a very high standard and I agree that it would be tough to prove. 

Beyond a reasonable doubt is only the burden in criminal court. Civil court the standard is lower.

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I can't see how there could be any doubt if that old report was correct. There is no way this ride doesn't have cameras recording the loading process. Regardless of if the operator tugged the belt and saw it was locked... If it wasn't *on* they didn't check it properly. 

 

That report must have been wrong. She must have met all ride requirements, and been properly restrained. Making this fault of the restraint system/manufacturer, or whoever sets the safety requirements. 

 

That, or this was thrown out when it shouldn't have been. 

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51 minutes ago, BotanicalStig said:

I can't see how there could be any doubt if that old report was correct. There is no way this ride doesn't have cameras recording the loading process. Regardless of if the operator tugged the belt and saw it was locked... If it wasn't *on* they didn't check it properly. 

 

That report must have been wrong. She must have met all ride requirements, and been properly restrained. Making this fault of the restraint system/manufacturer, or whoever sets the safety requirements. 

 

That, or this was thrown out when it shouldn't have been. 

Youre not understanding the burden of proof necessary and what they have to prove. Basically what theyre saying is that while mistakes happened, they didnt rise to the level of a crime occurring. Which is reasonable. It was a tragic accident. 

If the ride op tugged on the belt, it was already latched and it wouldve been tight because she was sitting on it, so other than not noticing the strap wasnt over her lap, there would be no indication that it wasnt properly secured.

 

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10 hours ago, Haymaker said:

Basically what theyre saying is that while mistakes happened, they didnt rise to the level of a crime occurring. Which is reasonable. It was a tragic accident.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.  Sometimes things just go wrong.  Yes, negligence had a hand in this but the ride op made a mistake as they were going through the motions.  Some people act like the ride op actively tried to ensure the child was thrown.

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On 2/5/2022 at 6:54 AM, Haymaker said:

If the ride op tugged on the belt, it was already latched and it wouldve been tight because she was sitting on it, so other than not noticing the strap wasnt over her lap, there would be no indication that it wasnt properly secured.

That's the trick though... There WAS an indicator that it wasn't properly secured. The ride system didn't allow a dispatch because not all of the restraints had cycled from closed to open. And a second operator also looked at the situation and didn't notice or deal with the situation correctly.

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1 hour ago, Comeagain? said:

That's the trick though... There WAS an indicator that it wasn't properly secured. The ride system didn't allow a dispatch because not all of the restraints had cycled from closed to open. And a second operator also looked at the situation and didn't notice or deal with the situation correctly.

Correct, but because they werent trained properly for the fault, not because of the physical check.

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Whoa...had no idea any of this happened. Saw new posts figured oh maybe update on that new coaster and yikes what a sad story : ( 

Literally catching up on much as  I can now so apologies for missing anything but reading the report, I can't fathom how this would happen. Guess a line could be made on how much is op negligence or park for lack of proper training and whos more to blame etc but seems like both. Just wow, tragic. Also should it be noted people negligence while understood its an accident, CAN be criminal. Like theres tragic accidents but then ones that really dindt need to happen and would presumably have been avoided if not for negligence. Seems like this is the case. They also are pretty hard to prove and I got no clue what protections parks may have on this type of thing. All I will say is very very sad story. 

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I'd recommend reading the report too JJLehto: https://cdle.colorado.gov/press-releases/media-advisory-division-of-oil-and-public-safety-releases-report-of-findings-on

Fascinating dive into exactly what happened. Very clear cut with no technical stuff.

Anyway, the ruling isn't surprising, they took it the wrong way. I understand they want to go for the big one but it isn't always worth it. I'll be curious if they come back with something else though as they should.

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"Failure to ensure proper utilization of the passenger restraint system or seatbelts, and

A lack of understanding and resolution of the alarm conditions on the control panel."

 

I just don't understand. If not checking a child's restraint, and ignoring safety alarms do not qualify as criminal negligence. What the heck does? How do they describe, legally, what happened here? Just a "Whoopsie"?  If they can't charge the kid operating the ride, why not the park? Aren't they responsible for their employees actions? Is it not negligence to hire the dummy who ignored safety protocols? 

 

Everytime I come back here I get more irritated by it. 

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On 2/5/2022 at 9:54 AM, Haymaker said:

Youre not understanding the burden of proof necessary and what they have to prove. Basically what theyre saying is that while mistakes happened, they didnt rise to the level of a crime occurring. Which is reasonable. It was a tragic accident. 

If the ride op tugged on the belt, it was already latched and it wouldve been tight because she was sitting on it, so other than not noticing the strap wasnt over her lap, there would be no indication that it wasnt properly secured.

 

^ Repeating. 

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And adding:

Criminal negligence is conduct where a person ignores an obvious risk or disregards the life and safety of those around him. Both federal and state courts describe this behavior as a form of recklessness. The negligent person acts significantly different than most people would under similar circumstances.

 

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Your job is to check restraints. You half-ass check and don't see that someone isn't secure. The rides safety system says something is wrong. 

 

What would you do, figure out what you did wrong, or send it? I think ignoring the safety warnings and sending someone to their death is "acting significantly different than most people would under similar circumstances." 

 

That's all I'm trying to say. You can tell me I "don't understand" all you want, but that doesn't mean this makes sense. 

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17 minutes ago, BotanicalStig said:

Your job is to check restraints. You half-ass check and don't see that someone isn't secure. The rides safety system says something is wrong. 

 

What would you do, figure out what you did wrong, or send it? I think ignoring the safety warnings and sending someone to their death is "acting significantly different than most people would under similar circumstances." 

 

That's all I'm trying to say. You can tell me I "don't understand" all you want, but that doesn't mean this makes sense. 

They did plenty of troubleshooting. They took reasonable actions to find the cause of the error. The child made it look like she was secured by a seatbelt. 

I said it before... what parent of a 6 year old doesnt check their child themselves to verify they are properly secured? I never rely solely on a 16-25 year old minimum wage employee to properly secure my kids. 

Screenshot_20220215-200611_Drive.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

In somewhat less depressing news, track pieces are starting to arrive for the new coaster. Took a quick pic as I had to meet someone at the hotel next door.

20220323_100343.thumb.jpg.46089d5e4b12d3519501d9a01c9a1238.jpg

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Very happy to see this! I was concerned this coaster was going to get canned or delayed given the park's situation recently. With that being said, I will be pretty surprised if they get this thing open by summer. And it's Colorado so they can't open it too late into the fall either. Fingers crossed all goes well for them.

I also really like the color scheme. It should blend in nicely with the surroundings.

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Yes I've been oddly intrigued by this ride, though oof that it seems pieces are only just arriving. IDK s**t about construction and engineering so maybe wrong but I figured it's location would make it a hard build. 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

The enclosure is pretty much full now. Can't confirm is pieces are going up to but trucks are still coming. Edit: There's a crane up top so vertical construction has begun.

20220420_141120.jpg

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  • 2 months later...

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