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Phantom-style tweaks/revisions for steel coasters


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The Phantom's Revenge transformation remains fairly unique among coasters. Although RMC is proving itself big-time, I've quietly wondered why manufacturers haven't more strongly communicated the service of at least smoothing out kerchunks and replacing clunky transitions on otherwise okay-enough steel coasters.

 

We are seeing that parks aren't adverse to reinvesting in existing coasters and marketing the efforts as noteworthy improvements or additions. Aside from RMC, here are a few improvement-examples in recent years:

 

- Hulk's new track and makeover

- Stand-ups going floorless

- Swapping classic OTRS's for vests from Intamin and Vekoma

- The Great Nor'easter getting new track

- Dodonpa's overhaul is rumored to include some sort of track/layout modification

- Virtual reality

 

When I think about Morgan and Arrow track merging so well for Phantom -- and remember, Morgan also later redid and smoothed Phantom's first drop, too -- I'm surprised that ironing out "what the hell?" moments and clothes hanger transitions hasn't become a more common practice by now. Fresh paint and new trains are the usual rehab fare, but it's still rare to see a re-engineered track rehab approach for steel coasters.

 

A subtle improvement might be Raptor's brake snap getting fixed to match Orochi's smoother ending. As a mid-level example, if Vekoma could provide vest restraints and modify transitions on a few Arrow coasters (Vortex, Vipers, Demons), you might turn a "2 or 3" into a respectable "7" and really improve a park from within. Finally, there are coasters like Big One and Desperado that could use modern layout love all over the place and a major restoration of their legacies. Some of those examples may be unlikely for different contextual reasons, but my point is that surely there must be profitable opportunities to improve a hoard of steel coasters through a re-engineering approach of rough layout moments.

 

Do you think we'll start seeing more track-based improvements to steel coasters now that RMC is setting a "rehab tone" in the industry, or will we keep living with kerchunky steel coasters until they're simply torn down?

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If you back to the 20s, rides used to change up a lot. Coasters would get new trains, they'd be put on backwards, they'd put a cover over 'em, dark rides would get rethemed again and again and again. It really wasn't until the last couple of decades that this stopped happening as frequently. As recently as the 70s, you get Morey's changing dark ride themes between popular movies every other year and Kennywood redoing the Old Mill every half decade and building the Thunderbolt out of the Pippin. So what is happening is not really an aberration - it's actually a return to the mean. This is what parks used to do.

 

As far as Phantom style re-dos are concerned, we're basically discussing Arrow coasters here and a few Vekoma's sharing the same track style. Altering the trains to make them more comfortable for riders is a more likely scenario than wholesale changes to the physical track unless there's good structural reason to, like on Gouderix. Going on rides like Carolina Cobra and Gardaland's Magic Mountain, I've seen some of the newer trains and ridden with em, and I think they're a big help. Like with Revolution getting rid of the OTSRs, you can rebrand around a train change and have a "new ride" for whatever year. What we've seen is that is successful for capital expenditure, something that was argued impossible not all that long ago.

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I think the main reason existing coasters don't get revisions is simply the COST of doing it.Perfect example:SFA-my home park-has Mind Eraser,one of the original SLCs;either SFA could get new trains or spend the money on a new flat ride(like the Wonder Woman one they're getting).While I would love new trains for Mind Eraser(and trains with buzzbars for Wild One),I could understand them shuffling the extra money elsewhere(for the time being at least).

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If you back to the 20s, rides used to change up a lot. Coasters would get new trains, they'd be put on backwards, they'd put a cover over 'em, dark rides would get rethemed again and again and again. It really wasn't until the last couple of decades that this stopped happening as frequently. As recently as the 70s, you get Morey's changing dark ride themes between popular movies every other year and Kennywood redoing the Old Mill every half decade and building the Thunderbolt out of the Pippin. So what is happening is not really an aberration - it's actually a return to the mean. This is what parks used to do.

 

Good points! My feeling is that parks like Kennywood and Morey's have had improvement-from-within in their decision-making DNA for a long time, while that current approach from Six Flags is more reflective of recent financial inflexibility and a current unwillingness to invest in long, new coasters. In any event, I'm glad that Six Flags and others have moved away from the coaster-after-coaster approach that resulted in neglected in-park environments and left-behind older coasters, which are finally getting some TLC.

 

I've often had my own objections about steel track segment modifications -- too expensive, not worth it, no structural reason to do so, new trains would suffice, etc. -- but I'm surprised that so many wooden coasters have been getting track modifications (don't forget Legend, GhostRider, & even Hades 360..I know, I know), while steel coasters like Gourdurix have this "nothing can be done, just make jokes about them" sense of defeat.

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I'd say the closest thing that's happened to the Steel Phantom/Phantom's Revenge revision since then is Buzzsaw Falls/Powder Keg at Silver Dollar City. Despite retaining a few parts of the original, the end result is a completely new ride. Arguably, aside from the rumored changes to Dodonpa, I would say that the other changes cited in the original post, while welcomed, certainly aren't as major as far as altering the ride experience.

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Wow, what a fascinating discussion! Super good points so far.

 

I wonder what the cost associated with a minor track change is to a steel coaster, especially if any modifications to the supports need to be made. I'm somewhat speculating here. But I mean, remember when they smoothed out that little sudden dip right before the third 90 degree turn on Voyage? That was a perfect example of a smart slight track modification, but in that case the support system could remain pretty much intact, because the existing truss-like support structure could handle a slight elevational change in the track without any major difference in force distribution. And also notice, that any alterations to wood coasters (generally) are confined to vertical shifts (smoothing out hills / drops), or axis shifts (banking). It's really hard to make any lateral displacements because you'd have to rebuild or shift the whole support structure. In this way, RMC can make make dynamic changes in layout to wooden coasters, but you can't really move a whole airtime hill to the right 20 feet (for example), or enlarge the radius of a turn, without completely rebuilding the structure.

 

But let's say B&M wants to make an elevation change to a certain part of one of their coasters. Those supports are pretty specifically designed for the force distribution as is, and would (likely) need to be redesigned if those forces were significantly redistributed, even if it was just a vertical displacement. Those large, angled supports would have to be re-angled and the length changed, if you understand what I'm saying, to match up with the new track. That's probably a fair amount of money.

 

Then look at Intamin's track modifications. The barrel roll on Maverick was replaced with a relatively simple double-banked straight piece of track. They didn't have to alter too much in terms of footers and supports. But then you look at I305's first turn, it turned out to be an enormous headache to re-profile and it still is probably more intense than the park would like.

 

The really big missed opportunity in my mind is the fact that Hulk didn't receive any layout modifications at all. It seems like it would have been the perfect opportunity to modify portions of the second half of the ride or make minor transitional changes, given that the entire structure was being rebuilt anyways.

 

But, I'm no expert. Interesting conversation though. I would love to see track changes and layout improvements on steel coasters, when problems become large enough and fixable.

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I really like this idea.

 

It would be especially intriguing for coasters whose manufacturers have gone by the wayside. Just look at Manhattan Express: Premier Rides has already built new trains and installed a magnetic braking system for that ride, but what if they were to channel the ghost of Togo and turn it from a piece of flaming shit into something palatable? Hell, you could go even further and demand them to bring back the good 'ole Ultra Twister. I would love to see companies get in touch with the past and completely revive classic coasters, if that is actually possible from a legal standpoint... but that's neither here nor there.

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I really like this idea.

 

It would be especially intriguing for coasters whose manufacturers have gone by the wayside. Just look at Manhattan Express: Premier Rides has already built new trains and installed a magnetic braking system for that ride, but what if they were to channel the ghost of Togo and turn it from a piece of flaming poo-poo into something palatable? Hell, you could go even further and demand them to bring back the good 'ole Ultra Twister. I would love to see companies get in touch with the past and completely revive classic coasters, if that is actually possible from a legal standpoint... but that's neither here nor there.

I think Premier Rides still owns the rights to build TOGO rides,and at one time was considering LIM launched UltraTwisters-which might work as long as it doesn't have Viper-style restraints.

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Interesting discussion.

 

I think the major factor, like another poster mentioned, is price. Why would a park pour all that money into a coaster to improve it when they could use that money towards another brand new coaster? Of course, it depends on the level of modification and the size of the coaster, but for most rides the size of the large Arrows (Viper, Anaconda, Vortex), it may be more cost-worthy to spend that money on a completely new ride that is easier to market. But Cedar Fair is taking off with the whole Rougarou-esque transformation, and they seem to market it well, so what do I know. Price was just the first thing that came to my mind.

 

Also, when did Raptor's brake run transition get "fixed"? I last rode it in 2014, and it was as snappy as ever!

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I've always wondered this myself, especially with the Ride of Steel clones. If you take out those straight sections of track and remove that second helix to add in 2 or 3 more pops of airtime I feel like they could be ranked right up there with some of the best.

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^Agreed It would take very little to get to top 10 material.

Very little? You guys are talking about literally removing at least a third of the layout and replacing it with something else. Do you realize how much time, money, engineering, money and money that would take?

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Also, when did Raptor's brake run transition get "fixed"? I last rode it in 2014, and it was as snappy as ever!

Japanese/French Raptor's brake run snap was fixed after B&M realized how they ended a great ride in an even greater way at the very last second.

Fixed

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While some of the mentioned conversions/replacements have been a net positive, there's a fine line between preserving some of the contrast and replacing rides that are truly too rough. Hulk is sort of a bad example for me to use, since it reportedly needed the replacement, but the last time I rode replacement Hulk, it seemed much tamer and new-school B&M in feel. Even my non-enthusiast friend who was with me said "well that seemed lame" at the end. Not sure if maybe the launch ends a few feet sooner, some dimensions and/or angles were tweaked ever so slightly, or if it just needs time to run longer, but it was apparent.

 

I also was kind of bummed when I heard that Roar East was being RMC'd. I liked it a few years back and thought that SFDK could have really benefitted from having both a GCI and an RMC (ie Dollywood). I haven't been on Joker and I'm sure it's better, but Roar was still lost.

 

On the other hand, there are some cases that needed it. Ninja/Blue Hawk totally sucked before the new trains. Vortex at CGA did, too.

 

I guess it's just a be-careful-what-you-wish-for. Personally I love the character of some of the older Arrow loopers and I'd be bummed if all the B&M stand-ups were converted to floorless because a few people think they're too much.

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I think Phantom's Revenge and Kenny are a unique example given: (1) People's love for the ride (2) its unique lay out, and (3) Kennywood lack of space. The Hulk was not changed at all, they literally just rebuild the same ride.

 

One ride that would really benefit from a 'Phantom's Revenge' style make over is the Anaconda at King's Dominion. I'd love to see that retrofitted with some new trains, and a new layout that includes the already existing tunnel. However I also think I'd enjoy a B&M Flyers in that space more. I do like the trend of plus-ing some rides on off years, however In most instances, it is cheaper, and often times more desirable to just build a new ride.

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^I feel like "floatjector" actually sort of describes the airtime you get in a few spots on Fury 325. It's much more than B&M floater, but much less than Intamin ejector. You're going like 1,000mph so you're getting ejected(ish), but you don't have as much of a violent kick as El Toro or some of the RMCs. Only coaster I can really describe as having it.

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