Jump to content
  TPR Home | Parks | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Instagram 

Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.


Recommended Posts

In all engineering, the is the FS variable. It's the Factor of Safety. This value is used to account for "unknown" variable forces and for redundancy. It also somewhat accounts for "human error" and discrepancies during construction. Whatever this value is determined to be (for example, it's often 6 for structural steel bridges), ALL forces are multiplied by it during design. I don't know what the FS is for slide/coaster design, but if part of the boat did indeed leave the track, it seems that either the initial forces were underestimated, or the FS was not high enough to account for variable forces such as wind, riders shifting, hydraulic gradient, etc.

 

Or perhaps all of the ride engineering was correct, but human error came into play with something such as the restraint not being properly fastened. Even so, if the ride had so many dangerous variables, it seems the restraint should have had some redundancy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 527
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I think it's important to keep in mind that even though this was done in house, the manufacturers of the slide know a hell of a lot more about the physics of water slides than anyone in this thread does. Instead of questioning their knowledge of physics, or the way they designed the slide, or how we would have designed it better why don't we just wait for the investigation to come out? If we had some engineers from Proslide or Whitewater in here then maybe it would be worth listening to their Monday morning quarterbacking about what went wrong (not that they would comment anyway), but the fact is nobody knows what happened, and nobody here knows how to design a water slide.

 

Some of the posts in this thread have been well thought out, but the posts that are suggesting solutions to specific problems with the design or making assumptions about the physics that were used in designing it when none of us know dick about designing water slides seem ridiculous to me.

 

 

Physics and engineering are quite different fields, with the former relying on general solutions to multiple problems and the latter relying on approximations to a specific model.

 

With that said:

 

  • 1. Any design/machine to be used by people requires a professional engineer (PE) to sign off of
    2. The amusement park industry is regulated, inspected daily
    3. Any modifications to the slide would require a PE to sign off of
    4. Not following these instructions is breaking the law

 

Becoming a PE is no easy task either, one must:

  • - Get a Bachelors of Science in an ABET accredited Engineering program
    - Pass the Fundamentals of Engineering Exam
    - Work for 4 years, in your industry, under the supervision of a PE
    - Take the Principles and Practice of Engineering Exam FOR THE INDUSTRY YOU WORKED IN, pass

 

This doesn't mean that negligence can't happen, but majority of PE's wouldn't risk their career, name, or, at the least, salary for something that does not work.

 

Also keep in mind that different PE's would sign their approval on their specific parts. An Electrical PE wouldn't sign off on a part that a Mechanical PE should, unless the Electrical PE believes the technical content falls within his discipline.

 

The best course of action is to let due process run it's part, rather than to claim negligence or incompetency on the parts of the engineers. This situation could be an outlier or a malfunction of a specific part, not necessarily things engineers can be responsible for in most cases.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Nothing would've happened or the boy would only be injured if the net is suspended on the metal frame from the outside instead of supported from the inside. On top of that, if the net is not held on to the metal frame by anything, it only takes a breeze to lift the net up and turn the metal frame into a Saw death trap. Avoiding safety hazards like this should be written into the industry standards.

 

This is speculation at its absolute worst. 1) No matter what, you're still ASSUMING the net framing killed the boy at this time. 2) You're ASSUMING that protecting a piece of metal frame with thin mesh netting would have saved this child's neck from injury.

 

I think it's important to keep in mind that even though this was done in house, the manufacturers of the slide know a hell of a lot more about the physics of water slides than anyone in this thread does. Instead of questioning their knowledge of physics, or the way they designed the slide, or how we would have designed it better why don't we just wait for the investigation to come out?

The facts that we know are very limited at this time as to what killed the child, other than he died of a neck injury. However, people still continue to draw conclusions on no information. This thread is like a train wreck and somehow I can't look away, despite my distinct apathy for the entire situation.

Edited by prozach626
Link to post
Share on other sites

From everything I see, the ride will not reopen this year and probably never again.

 

The thing that has bothered me from day one is the netting. Why is it there? To keep the raft from flying off? What about the people in the raft if it goes airborne? I guess now we know.

 

How sad for everyone on the raft.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Nothing would've happened or the boy would only be injured if the net is suspended on the metal frame from the outside instead of supported from the inside. On top of that, if the net is not held on to the metal frame by anything, it only takes a breeze to lift the net up and turn the metal frame into a Saw death trap. Avoiding safety hazards like this should be written into the industry standards.

 

This is speculation at its absolute worst. 1) No matter what, you're still ASSUMING the net killed the boy at this time. 2) You're ASSUMING that protecting a piece of metal frame with thin mesh netting would have saved this child's neck from injury. If I were to wrap a baseball bat in a single sheet of netting and hit you in the side of the head with it as hard as I could it probably wouldn't end any better.

 

I think it's important to keep in mind that even though this was done in house, the manufacturers of the slide know a hell of a lot more about the physics of water slides than anyone in this thread does. Instead of questioning their knowledge of physics, or the way they designed the slide, or how we would have designed it better why don't we just wait for the investigation to come out?

The facts that we know are very limited at this time as to what killed the child, other than he died of a neck injury. However, people still continue to draw conclusions on no information. This thread is like a train wreck and somehow I can't look away, despite my distinct apathy for the entire situation.

 

The "neck injury" is now a confirmed decapitation:

 

http://time.com/4444447/caleb-schwab-verruckt-water-slide-death/

Link to post
Share on other sites

"yet details are vague and authorities have disclosed little information about what caused the tragic accident. Questions remain over how exactly Caleb died, including whether the ride or safety equipment — as well as the Velcro straps and belt holding him into the raft — malfunctioned."

 

That doesn't mean we should ignore ^^this and draw our own conclusions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, let me say that I was shocked and horrified when I read the news (It even made the morning news here in Germany) and saw the pictures of all the blood on the slide. That poor kid likely did nothing wrong and died too early in a gruesome way. May he rest in peace. My thoughts are with the family.

 

But before putting blame on the park, the engineers that thought up the slide and most of all the family, I believe we should take a step back and wait until we know details about what happened. Right now we know nothing except eye-witness reports and a few short statements from the police (correct me if I´m wrong).

Link to post
Share on other sites
... I believe we should take a step back and wait until we know details about what happened. Right now we know nothing except eye-witness reports and a few short statements from the police (correct me if I´m wrong).

Probably right.

 

The TIME article ^^^ sounds more like a journalist made a phone call to the local police station and asked whether what they thought had happened was true, and whoever was on the other end of the line likely said something along the lines of "yeah, pretty much." Police have confirmed to TIME means nothing (to me) until a real investigation finishes and is released to the public.

 

I don't want to get in on the arguments in this thread. I'm already pretty sickened by unnecessary details. I wasn't there, so I know nothing on the situation (as do virtually every one of you). I'm waiting for anything official as well. My thoughts go out to the family and friends of the boy, as well as those working at the park.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe we should take a step back and wait until we know details about what happened. Right now we know nothing except eye-witness reports and a few short statements from the police (correct me if I´m wrong).

 

It's a completely different ride and situation but AFIK we still don't know for a fact what went wrong with The New Texas Giant RMC ride at six flags when a rider was flung from that ride. Since then the case has been settled and no information has come from that. My point here is sometimes they never reveal details to the public and in this case they might not given the boy's age, respect for the law maker and his family, etc. To me it seems like a perfect storm of all the varying reasons why something might not ever be made public.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is such a terrible and shocking accident.

 

I was actually in Kansas City doing a coaster trip and Schlitterbahn was on the itinerary of course, but we kept pushing it back a day and were going to squeeze it in on Monday but then heard the news Sunday night. It was really hard to believe (still is) and I'm glad I wasn't there to witness it.

 

I was really excited to ride it and now I'm just shocked and curious how exactly this could've occurred. I'm very curious if they will reopen it (I would assume next year) and if the results of the investigation can warrant the ride as "fixable" or if there is a serious flaw that can't be fixed. Even if it can be fixed I could see the ride never reopening just because of the significance of the accident. I guess that all depends on what happened and how everything plays out going forward.

 

It really is such a terrible tragedy and something I never thought would happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
For a moment I had forgotten that the world has become stupid. Need to keep reminding myself why I don't even bother to post stuff on our own TPR forum anymore because humanity is just going down the shitter. This is why Donald Trump will be our next president and why Idiocracy is not a comedy but a documentary. Carry on people... I'll just watch from the sidelines... horrified.

I thought of something similar reading through page 14 and then luckily your post turned up.

 

I think it's important to keep in mind that even though this was done in house, the manufacturers of the slide know a hell of a lot more about the physics of water slides than anyone in this thread does. Instead of questioning their knowledge of physics, or the way they designed the slide, or how we would have designed it better why don't we just wait for the investigation to come out? If we had some engineers from Proslide or Whitewater in here then maybe it would be worth listening to their Monday morning quarterbacking about what went wrong (not that they would comment anyway), but the fact is nobody knows what happened, and nobody here knows how to design a water slide.

Thank you for a sensible comment! Only a moron would think something like this is created without knowledgeable engineers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

^ Agreed with all above.

 

Also note that the story has changed about what...6 or 7 times since this originally aired in the media on Sunday? Anyone that thinks that they can trust what they see or read in today's US media is truly living a joke.

Link to post
Share on other sites
For a moment I had forgotten that the world has become stupid. Need to keep reminding myself why I don't even bother to post stuff on our own TPR forum anymore because humanity is just going down the shitter. This is why Donald Trump will be our next president and why Idiocracy is not a comedy but a documentary. Carry on people... I'll just watch from the sidelines... horrified.

 

I am sorry and I agree with you that parents don't watch their children well enough. A rent trip to the zoo with a child falling over a fence proved that and we see it every day. I guess I spend too much of my slow summer work season posting in yahoo and msn where people argue incessantly between calling each other Repuliturds or Libtards. I will watch the arguing. Anyway, I will enjoy my Brawndo while I read that Donald picked his cabinet today.

idiocracy.thumb.jpg.9270fc0ecad26ccc9a96c9d53851dd0b.jpg

Donald's cabinet

Link to post
Share on other sites
Probably note a huge surprise, but the park announced this afternoon that Verruckt will not re-open this season.

 

For those of you who are curious to teh statment, this is from Schlitterbahn's Facebook:

 

Statement from Schlitterbahn Kansas City

SCHLITTERBAHN KANSAS CITY·TUESDAY, AUGUST 9, 2016

Here at Schlitterbahn we continue to pray and keep in our thoughts everyone impacted by the tragic events on Sunday and we are keeping the Schwab family in our prayers. A limited portion of our Kansas City park will open for guests at noon on Wednesday. Verrückt will not re-open for the remainder of the season. For more information visit our website.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just want to preface this by reiterating that we know close to nothing at this point. But the net could be there to catch flying objects like sunglasses, GoPros, etc. Or potentially to keep birds or other wild life out of the ride path. Just a thought...

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Link to post
Share on other sites

About how fast does Verruckt go? I did a quick search but didn't see anything in the flurry of news articles about this horrific accident. Continuing to send my thoughts and prayers to all family members, friends, other park guests, and medics who were called to the scene.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just want to preface this by reiterating that we know close to nothing at this point. But the net could be there to catch flying objects like sunglasses, GoPros, etc. Or potentially to keep birds or other wild life out of the ride path. Just a thought...

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

IMO this makes the most sense as to why the netting is there. If the reason the net is there is to catch flying rafts/people then imagine what that would to do the industry as a whole if the media got hold of that type of information.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just want to preface this by reiterating that we know close to nothing at this point. But the net could be there to catch flying objects like sunglasses, GoPros, etc. Or potentially to keep birds or other wild life out of the ride path. Just a thought...

Uh huh. Flying sunglasses and GoPros. How many coasters or flats even have netting over them to catch flying objects ? Under them sure, but I think the trough has that covered.

 

Take a closer look at that netting. I can fit objects much larger than sunglasses or GoPros through the lattice.

 

In addition cameras are not allowed on the ride unless you are a member of the media and use their camera.

http://www.schlitterbahn.com/kansas-city/rides/all-new-verruckt

 

Birds and other wildlife. How many coasters or flats have netting over them to keep birds and other wildlife out of the ride path? Have you ever been to CP? They have gulls and sparrows everywhere. Everywhere that is except anywhere near the coasters. They hang around begging for french fries and repay you by pooping all over your car. They know there is no profit in hanging around coasters or slides. How many reports have there been of riders attacked by gulls or "other wildlife" at CP or any other park for that matter?

 

I would imagine getting hit in the face by a gull or even a sparrow at a 120mph on TTD would cause some serious damage and might even make the news.

 

Also what kinds of non-bird wildlife are you concerned about interfering with the safe operation of a water slide?

 

Kansas Flying Monkeys?

 

Nice try though.

 

 

IMO this makes the most sense as to why the netting is there. If the reason the net is there is to catch flying rafts/people then imagine what that would to do the industry as a whole if the media got hold of that type of information.

 

The park owners were very proud of their flying rafts as evidenced by the letting Travel Channel have footage of them and broadcast it on Extreme Waterparks.

 

So yes I can imagine what the media would do. Broadcast the footage and sell advertisements. That's what they did.

Edited by Thread Killer
Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, I think the velcro restraints are unacceptable. Something like the seatbelts they use on Intamins I think would be the appropriate restraint. Bringing up velcro restraints I was always amazed nobody ever got hurt on the rapids rides like Bigfoot and Roaring Rapids by getting out and moving around.

 

Even at the higher speeds that a previous member was talking about while including the videos, it just does not seem like the kid was flung out due to airtime. Maybe he was scared or tried to get out. Was he sitting in the back of the raft?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just want to preface this by reiterating that we know close to nothing at this point. But the net could be there to catch flying objects like sunglasses, GoPros, etc. Or potentially to keep birds or other wild life out of the ride path. Just a thought...

Uh huh. Flying sunglasses and GoPros. How many coasters or flats even have netting over them to catch flying objects ? Under them sure, but I think the trough has that covered.

 

Take a closer look at that netting. I can fit objects much larger than sunglasses or GoPros through the lattice.

 

In addition cameras are not allowed on the ride unless you are a member of the media and use their camera.

http://www.schlitterbahn.com/kansas-city/rides/all-new-verruckt

 

Birds and other wildlife. How many coasters or flats have netting over them to keep birds and other wildlife out of the ride path? Have you ever been to CP? They have gulls and sparrows everywhere. Everywhere that is except anywhere near the coasters. They hang around begging for french fries and repay you by pooping all over your car. They know there is no profit in hanging around coasters or slides. How many reports have there been of riders attacked by gulls or "other wildlife" at CP or any other park for that matter?

 

I would imagine getting hit in the face by a gull or even a sparrow at a 120mph on TTD would cause some serious damage and might even make the news.

 

Also what kinds of non-bird wildlife are you concerned about interfering with the safe operation of a water slide?

 

Kansas Flying Monkeys?

 

Nice try though.

 

Fabio begs to differ.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

buschgardens-fabio-roller-coaster-1999apr.jpg.c26f0b1fcbd686b0ec146c873575677c.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use https://themeparkreview.com/forum/topic/116-terms-of-service-please-read/