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Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.


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What does confer experience is having actually done something, not a piece of paper.

I'm not talking about experience; I'm talking about expertise. I can have experience doing something and not actually know what I'm doing. Conversely I can never have done something before but have expertise because of similar relevant things I've done and learned from.

 

The definition of "expertise" is "expert skill or knowledge in a particular field." Someone who has never done anything in a particular field does not, by definition, have any expertise whatsoever. This is precisely why Schlitterbahn's previous rides were able to pass without engineering scrutiny with relation to the slides (structures were a different story) previously. They had a solid track record having built many, many water coasters and were uniquely qualified having invented the attractions and keeping data records to make the necessary adjustments. Go back to the threads on this ride's development and you won't see a single soul suggesting they were incapable, even as the lack of engineering background was on full display both on television and in print (Grantland did a great water parks piece highlighting Henry) around the same time.

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All right, we'll have to disagree. No worries; you go there if you want, and have fun. We'll have fun doing something else.

 

It's not a defense of them, good lord. How many times do I have to say the same thing over and over? Forget about just Schlitterbahn for a second: incidents like this and the KMG accident at the Ohio State Fair last year give the Ed Markeys of the country endless ammunition to have federal amusement ride regulation enacted. Because if these guys - argurably the best in their industry regardless of what you might think (and recognized BY THE WATER PARK INDUSTRY as such) - can't be trusted not to build something that is a death trap and cover up the fact that it is, who can be trusted?

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All right, we'll have to disagree. No worries; you go there if you want, and have fun. We'll have fun doing something else.

I think the point being made is that the fact that the designer had that previous water slide design experience under his belt, and by his own work standard should have taken all precautions and pulled out all the stops, makes the apparent allegations of negligence that much worse.

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Yeah, I can see that. I don't know what his previous experience was, as I just don't care to keep track of that sort of thing. But people are not indicted for battery via water slide out of the blue and for no good reason. If I can't trust them to keep us safe, then I won't go, and I'll go instead to a different place I do trust. That was my original point before it went off in the weeds with a bunch of names dropped that I'm not familiar with, and who seem to have zero connection to Schlitterbahn.

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I don't think it matters even for the indictment whether he had experience, was an engineer, or whatever else we're all arguing about. The indictment has written and oral statements that they knew there were several problems with the ride and injuries and they conspired to cover them up!

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I don't think it matters even for the indictment whether he had experience, was an engineer, or whatever else we're all arguing about. The indictment has written and oral statements that they knew there were several problems with the ride and injuries and they conspired to cover them up!

 

 

Precisely.

We love parks, and its natural to wanna defend stuff/people/places we like but we gotta be honest here. I mean it's not businesses have never done questionable things, sad as it is why would an amusement/water park be exempt. This is a very sad case. And it does seem this was deff more than just an accident/error but definite negligence. Very sad, and perhaps we're lucky it took as long as it did for something so tragic to happen

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I don't think it matters even for the indictment whether he had experience, was an engineer, or whatever else we're all arguing about. The indictment has written and oral statements that they knew there were several problems with the ride and injuries and they conspired to cover them up!

 

Absolutely agree, if they actually acknowledged all these problems and shut the ride down until it it was fixed that would be one thing but this indictment certainly makes it seems like they just stuck their heads in the sand and ignored all the problems they knew about.

Edited by Satans Hockey
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Yeah, I can see that. I don't know what his previous experience was, as I just don't care to keep track of that sort of thing. But people are not indicted for battery via water slide out of the blue and for no good reason. If I can't trust them to keep us safe, then I won't go, and I'll go instead to a different place I do trust. That was my original point before it went off in the weeds with a bunch of names dropped that I'm not familiar with, and who seem to have zero connection to Schlitterbahn.

 

How do you know with any certainty that where you're going instead doesn't do the same thing? That's exactly the problem for the entire industry. If you told me 3 years ago that Schlitterbahn and KMG would both be in such hot water that Republican states would be banning their rides and arresting their executives, I'd never have believed you. And yet here we are.

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We'll see what happens. The burden of proof lies heavily on the state. As the article said, it will be difficult for the State to prove this.

...

but I know all too well that accusations are enough in modern times. Especially when the press is looking to make a buck.

...

Again, it's important to withhold judgement until after the trial. Grand jury decisions are not nearly enough.

 

Exactly. They can claim practically anything in an indictment. Proving any of it is a different matter.

 

But ask Richard Jewell about clearing one's name afterward.

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after seeing that the personel of Schlitterbahn knowingly lied to the police about this

 

They are merely accused. No charges have been proven yet.

Edited by TEDodd
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Yeah, I can see that. I don't know what his previous experience was, as I just don't care to keep track of that sort of thing. But people are not indicted for battery via water slide out of the blue and for no good reason. If I can't trust them to keep us safe, then I won't go, and I'll go instead to a different place I do trust. That was my original point before it went off in the weeds with a bunch of names dropped that I'm not familiar with, and who seem to have zero connection to Schlitterbahn.

 

How do you know with any certainty that where you're going instead doesn't do the same thing? That's exactly the problem for the entire industry. If you told me 3 years ago that Schlitterbahn and KMG would both be in such hot water that Republican states would be banning their rides and arresting their executives, I'd never have believed you. And yet here we are.

Nobody from SeaWorld has been indicted for battery via water slide. I really don't think this goes to the entire industry. Seems like one company tried to do something they weren't capable of doing, and they are reckoning with that. I still trust a good number of theme parks and water parks, even though I do understand that there is a possibility of injury. I'm okay with accidents happening. I'm just really not okay with intentional endangerment.

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Someone without an engineering degree could be more fluent than an engineer.

 

As an engineer I agree completely.

 

A degree imparts no practical application experience. I've seen experience trump math many times. I've seen engineering fail or yield unworkable results.

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Nobody from SeaWorld has been indicted for battery via water slide. I really don't think this goes to the entire industry. Seems like one company tried to do something they weren't capable of doing, and they are reckoning with that. I still trust a good number of theme parks and water parks, even though I do understand that there is a possibility of injury. I'm okay with accidents happening. I'm just really not okay with intentional endangerment.

 

SeaWorld's legal problems include investigations by the US Department of Justice and the Securities and Exchange Commission, and they obviously received penalties already from OSHA. Different legal problems when it comes to allegedly misleading the public, but that is a thing right now and they've already gotten the old SeaWorld Orlando president to flip as an informant. In any case, this is pretty much unprecedented what is happening to Schlitterbahn. Not just that there is a criminal trial coming but also the kind of player involved. This should be a wake up call, and the entire industry should separate itself as much as humanly possible from what occurred and from Schlitterbahn's management. I don't know that it'll happen, but that's what needs to occur.

 

Personally, I'm not that OK with accidents happening if they keep being the fault of the manufacturer or the park (which is overwhelmingly the case now for probably 15-20 years as it relates to rider death). They're amusement rides, not BASE jumping. The risk profile is supposed to be astronomically low.

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Unfortunately no machine is perfect. Accidents in the amusement industry are usually traced back to human error. Sometimes that is a dumb guest, sometimes that is park negligence, and sometimes it’s unforeseen manufacturer errors.

 

In the case of this death, it appears to be the fault of the park (who doubles as the manufacturer). Seems like a lot of the evidence comes with a paper trail. I suspect there will be plea deals, so I don’t think we’ll ever know the full story.

 

Whatever happens, I think it’s safe to say Mr. Henry’s career as a waterslide designer/engineer/whatever you want to call him is over. And good riddance if everything in the indictment is true. The industry doesn’t need people who will willingly sacrifice safety for bragging rights or for financial purposes

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^ Well said, Joey!

 

If knowledge of the danger and negligence of safety prove true, heads should definitely roll. As you mentioned, sometimes the final verdict never makes it back into the national spotlight, so we may need our TPR locals in KC keep us up to speed when that happens.

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Alright....long time reader...first time posting. Been following this ride from it's announcement....from the KC area originally....never felt that this ride was safe for me and my family.

 

My .02 cents...

 

In the real world....they need to say "We are sorry, we feel like crap this happened in our park and to the victims, we are going to support the impacted in all ways legally possible, we fired all involved (I assume they haven't), we will help the authorities prosecute the case to seek justice (they kind of tried to say this), we don't know how to make it better but we are dedicated to the mission that it will never happen again in our parks".

 

But instead this crap release statement reeks of lawyer speak to ensure that the pending legal preceding will impact the company and it's employees as little as possible is the #1 goal. I wouldn't trust this company to walk my dog. I'm sure the victims family is really happy that their employees kids and grandkids happily walked away from Verruckt to live happy lives. Horrific.

 

 

Schlitterbahn released the following statement after the water park was indicted:

 

"We’ve reviewed the indictment against Schlitterbahn Kansas City and Tyler Miles and we plan on contesting the allegations. Since the date of the incident we have worked closely with law enforcement; at no time have we withheld evidence; at no time have we altered evidence. The indictment uses quoted statements from a reality TV show that was scripted for dramatic effect that in no way reflects the design and construction of the ride.

 

"The safety of our Schlitterbahn guests and employees has been at the forefront of our culture throughout our 40 years of operations. Many of us rode Verruckt regularly, as did our children and grandchildren. We have faith in the justice system and are confident that when we finally have an opportunity to defend ourselves, it will be clear that this was an accident. We stand by our team and will fight these charges."

 

 

I'd challenge all of you to consider not supporting this company.

Edited by humphreyhawk
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Charged with murder?

00a44af06c4cf98ce15a95c6b6c56991.jpg

 

 

AP) -- A newspaper report says the co-owner of the company operating a Kansas water park has been arrested in connection with a criminal case arising from a 10-year-old boy's death on a giant waterslide.

 

Schlitterbahn Waterparks and Resorts co-owner Jeffery Henry was arrested Monday in Cameron County, Texas. A captain in the local sheriff's department told the newspaper that Henry was arrested by U.S. marshals on a Kansas warrant.

 

He was being held without bond, and a jail booking clerk said he would remain there until a court appearance Tuesday.

 

He was arrested on single count of murder, 12 counts of battery, and five counts of aggravated child endangerment, according to the booking log.

http://www.wibw.com/content/news/Report-says-Schlitterbahns-co-owner-arrested-477979253.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Alright....long time reader...first time posting. Been following this ride from it's announcement....from the KC area originally....never felt that this ride was safe for me and my family.

 

My .02 cents...

 

In the real world....they need to say "We are sorry, we feel like crap this happened in our park and to the victims, we are going to support the impacted in all ways legally possible, we fired all involved (I assume they haven't), we will help the authorities prosecute the case to seek justice (they kind of tried to say this), we don't know how to make it better but we are dedicated to the mission that it will never happen again in our parks".

 

But instead this crap release statement reeks of lawyer speak to ensure that the pending legal preceding will impact the company and it's employees as little as possible is the #1 goal. I wouldn't trust this company to walk my dog. I'm sure the victims family is really happy that their employees kids and grandkids happily walked away from Verruckt to live happy lives. Horrific.

 

 

Schlitterbahn released the following statement after the water park was indicted:

 

"We’ve reviewed the indictment against Schlitterbahn Kansas City and Tyler Miles and we plan on contesting the allegations. Since the date of the incident we have worked closely with law enforcement; at no time have we withheld evidence; at no time have we altered evidence. The indictment uses quoted statements from a reality TV show that was scripted for dramatic effect that in no way reflects the design and construction of the ride.

 

"The safety of our Schlitterbahn guests and employees has been at the forefront of our culture throughout our 40 years of operations. Many of us rode Verruckt regularly, as did our children and grandchildren. We have faith in the justice system and are confident that when we finally have an opportunity to defend ourselves, it will be clear that this was an accident. We stand by our team and will fight these charges."

 

 

I'd challenge all of you the consider not supporting this company.

 

If they were just facing civil penalties, 100% agree. Even if I know I'm wrong, I'd still want to protect myself from criminal charges.

 

That being said...Glad Jeff Henry was charged. That indictment was terrifying to read. He'll get the day in court they asked for in the press release.

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Charged with murder?

00a44af06c4cf98ce15a95c6b6c56991.jpg

 

 

AP) -- A newspaper report says the co-owner of the company operating a Kansas water park has been arrested in connection with a criminal case arising from a 10-year-old boy's death on a giant waterslide.

 

Schlitterbahn Waterparks and Resorts co-owner Jeffery Henry was arrested Monday in Cameron County, Texas. A captain in the local sheriff's department told the newspaper that Henry was arrested by U.S. marshals on a Kansas warrant.

 

He was being held without bond, and a jail booking clerk said he would remain there until a court appearance Tuesday.

 

He was arrested on single count of murder, 12 counts of battery, and five counts of aggravated child endangerment, according to the booking log.

http://www.wibw.com/content/news/Report-says-Schlitterbahns-co-owner-arrested-477979253.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you look at the indictment, the charge is actually involuntary manslaughter, not murder. I think that's the appropriate charge. He wasn't trying to kill the kid, he just didn't care if someone died.

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I don't see a way that they can charge anyone with murder....not with the info that was released to us. As horrific as I see the situation I can't image that they acted with intent to kill....seems like manslaughter would be the most appropriate charge. That being said....they say they where expecting the charge? Where they expecting a murder charge? or was that a media slip-up to get rating for it? Still feels like we are not seeing the larger picture.

 

Sounds like the defense is going to be centered around....well we let our own family ride it....so we couldn't have been neglectful. yikes.

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