Accidental death at Schlitterbahn in Kansas City.

[coasterbill]

CedarFanboy... 15 years old and somehow the voice of reason. You and tykunkel1031 give me hope for the future of humanity.

[robbalvey]

I think it all comes down to the findings of the investigation.

 

If they are able to pinpoint a specific cause or failure (whether it be human error or mechanical/design error) and correct it, then it could reopen.

"We found issue X and have corrected it, along with adding other safeguards."

 

But if the investigation finds that just "something'' happened by pure chance, and combine that with the ride's well-known issues before initial opening, then I have a hard time seeing it opening again.

"We're not entirely sure what happened, but we believe it's safe now."

This doesn't make any sense at all. Are you saying that the ride could have just "magically" had some sort of problem that couldn't be traced back to any human or mechanical error??!!!

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

Seriously people. Are you all just TRYING to get quoted in the "dumbest thing posted to TPR" thread? Please tell me that is the case because it makes me lose sleep at night thinking people could actually be this stupid.

No, not at all.

Example of specific issues: restraint failure, inadequate weight, etc

Example of issue harder to pinpoint: the front of the raft lifted up due to variable forces - which there are a lot of in anything with water - aligning just right (or "magic")

I'm not saying this is what caused the accident, but there's a possibility that there was not one specific failure that can be pinpointed (happens all the time). If that's the case, it will be harder (if not impossible) to correct it, make the public feel safe, and reopen. Or maybe his restraint failed and they simply need different restraints. Again, completely dependent upon the findings of the investigation.

Please stop. You're just following up one incredibly stupid post with an even dumber idiotic post. Let me just be the one to say it to you so we can save other people from reading your garbage:

 

You know nothing about what you are writing about.

 

No additional words by you will make a stronger case that you know what you are writing about.

 

Stop posting in this thread.

 

Go find another thread to post it.

 

Try REALLY HARD not to be dumb in whatever other thread you choose.

 

And yeah, that pretty much sums it up!

[kyleparks77]

I think it all comes down to the findings of the investigation.

 

If they are able to pinpoint a specific cause or failure (whether it be human error or mechanical/design error) and correct it, then it could reopen.

"We found issue X and have corrected it, along with adding other safeguards."

 

But if the investigation finds that just "something'' happened by pure chance, and combine that with the ride's well-known issues before initial opening, then I have a hard time seeing it opening again.

"We're not entirely sure what happened, but we believe it's safe now."

This doesn't make any sense at all. Are you saying that the ride could have just "magically" had some sort of problem that couldn't be traced back to any human or mechanical error??!!!

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

Seriously people. Are you all just TRYING to get quoted in the "dumbest thing posted to TPR" thread? Please tell me that is the case because it makes me lose sleep at night thinking people could actually be this stupid.

No, not at all.

Example of specific issues: restraint failure, inadequate weight, etc

Example of issue harder to pinpoint: the front of the raft lifted up due to variable forces - which there are a lot of in anything with water - aligning just right (or "magic")

I'm not saying this is what caused the accident, but there's a possibility that there was not one specific failure that can be pinpointed (happens all the time). If that's the case, it will be harder (if not impossible) to correct it, make the public feel safe, and reopen. Or maybe his restraint failed and they simply need different restraints. Again, completely dependent upon the findings of the investigation.

Please stop. You're just following up one incredibly stupid post with an even dumber idiotic post. Let me just be the one to say it to you so we can save other people from reading your garbage:

 

You know nothing about what you are writing about.

 

No additional words by you will make a stronger case that you know what you are writing about.

 

Stop posting in this thread.

 

Go find another thread to post it.

 

Try REALLY HARD not to be dumb in whatever other thread you choose.

 

And yeah, that pretty much sums it up!

 

[robbalvey]

^ Thank you for weeding yourself out! Banned for being stupid.

[CedarFanboy]

WOW. That just happened. Rest in peace, my faith for humanity.

 

EDIT: This thread isn't really the place to argue with the owner of the site. Show some respect for both Robb and Caleb's family.

[coasterbill]

Thank god he's banned. He had started sending me (why me?) PM's defending his knowledge of engineering and I really couldn't take any more of those.

[DougMJr]

Just want to preface this by reiterating that we know close to nothing at this point. But the net could be there to catch flying objects like sunglasses, GoPros, etc. Or potentially to keep birds or other wild life out of the ride path. Just a thought...

Uh huh. Flying sunglasses and GoPros. How many coasters or flats even have netting over them to catch flying objects ? Under them sure, but I think the trough has that covered.

 

Take a closer look at that netting. I can fit objects much larger than sunglasses or GoPros through the lattice.

 

In addition cameras are not allowed on the ride unless you are a member of the media and use their camera.

http://www.schlitterbahn.com/kansas-city/rides/all-new-verruckt

 

Birds and other wildlife. How many coasters or flats have netting over them to keep birds and other wildlife out of the ride path? Have you ever been to CP? They have gulls and sparrows everywhere. Everywhere that is except anywhere near the coasters. They hang around begging for french fries and repay you by pooping all over your car. They know there is no profit in hanging around coasters or slides. How many reports have there been of riders attacked by gulls or "other wildlife" at CP or any other park for that matter?

 

I would imagine getting hit in the face by a gull or even a sparrow at a 120mph on TTD would cause some serious damage and might even make the news.

 

Also what kinds of non-bird wildlife are you concerned about interfering with the safe operation of a water slide?

 

Kansas Flying Monkeys?

 

Nice try though.

 

 

IMO this makes the most sense as to why the netting is there. If the reason the net is there is to catch flying rafts/people then imagine what that would to do the industry as a whole if the media got hold of that type of information.

 

The park owners were very proud of their flying rafts as evidenced by the letting Travel Channel have footage of them and broadcast it on Extreme Waterparks.

 

So yes I can imagine what the media would do. Broadcast the footage and sell advertisements. That's what they did.

Sorry, I know this was pages ago. The only point I was making was that there could be a multitude of reasons for the netting, and as others have said, all master blaster installations have netting - so I doubt its purpose is to catch flying rafts. That is just my take on that specific topic.

 

Didn't appreciate the condescension either.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[SoCalJasonland]

Wow, I think the velcro restraints are unacceptable. Something like the seatbelts they use on Intamins I think would be the appropriate restraint. Bringing up velcro restraints I was always amazed nobody ever got hurt on the rapids rides like Bigfoot and Roaring Rapids by getting out and moving around.

 

Even at the higher speeds that a previous member was talking about while including the videos, it just does not seem like the kid was flung out due to airtime. Maybe he was scared or tried to get out. Was he sitting in the back of the raft?

 

When your raft flips and you are upside down, head underwater; you will be happy you are able to release the restraint yourself and not wait for a ride operator with a key to find you. Intamin rafts or chute boats, themselves have flipped at least twice with people in them. Luckily no one has drowned as far as I know.

 

Velcro just wears easily and probably needs to be inspected and replaced often.

[Rill'o'beily]

When your raft flips and you are upside down, head underwater; you will be happy you are able to release the restraint yourself and not wait for a ride operator with a key to find you. Intamin rafts or chute boats, themselves have flipped at least twice with people in them

 

I haven't really been on any intamin water rides with belts, but are they different from the ones intamin usually uses? The click-in, squeeze out ones?

 

Also sidenote the actual problem rather is the fact that velcro can open by itself, not that it's easy to open but it's not really fail safe

[ahecht]

The media seems to be coalescing around a Velcro failure, for whatever that's worth. From Boy was decapitated on waterslide at Kansas park, source says:

 

Jon Rust, a professor of textile engineering at North Carolina State University, said the material used on the straps, commonly called hook and loop, isn't designed to keep a person in the seat. It also can degrade with use.

 

"It's got to be used in a safe manner, and that doesn't include stopping someone's fall or preventing someone's ejection," Rust said.

 

Paul Oberhauser told television station KCTV that his shoulder restraint "busted loose" on his Verruckt raft July 26. The Nebraska man said he "just held on," and a video shot by his wife shows the strap loose at the ride's end. Oberhauser said he reported the matter to park workers.

 

Kenneth Conrad told WDAF-TV that during his trip down the waterslide last year with a friend, the friend's shoulder strap came "completely off." Conrad's wife snapped a photo at the end of the ride showing the strap missing. Conrad didn't file a complaint with the park.

[wildthundernado]

IMO from the park's point of view a Velcro failure would be the best possible outcome for them. If it was a mechanical or engineering issue then I could see the park not being able to recover, but if they can blame it on the straps then all they have to do is replace the restraints and then market the ride as safer. Look at the accidents revolving around The Smiler and Texas Giant when the incidents first happened there was a lot of negative publicity, but over time things are going back to normal and the parks are recovering.

 

 

I too was only trying to point out that there were other reasons for the nets; because, if the only reason for the nets is to catch flying rafts then it will hurt the industry as a whole. The way the general public is they will say if the parks feel that way about those types of rides then are we really safe on the other rides as well. That line of thinking would then cause people not to go to parks and then hurt the bottom line.

 

I don't think the owner was particularly proud of the rafts going flying I think they were trying to show why they had to delay the opening of the ride, and show how they have made the ride safer.

[PKI Jizzman]

So all of a sudden numerous people are coming forward saying that "my restraint come off/didn't work/broke" while on the ride? I guess they've been holding this information back until now since it sounds like no one told the operator/park at the time that it happened during this season/last season!

[coasterbill]

Much like with the people in this thread, for the media it's apparently not possible to just wait for the results of the investigation so they're interviewing people who went to the park who know nothing about how the water slide works and using their quotes to create news articles that may or may not be true but it doesn't matter because they need to invent stories and ride the wave of interest and don't have time to wait for any real information to come out and validate these claims.

 

These accounts could be true, or they could not but I'm not paying any attention to them. I'm waiting for the actual investigation.

[CedarFanboy]

Much like with the people in this thread, for the media it's apparently not possible to just wait for the results of the investigation so they're interviewing people who went to the park who know nothing about how the water slide works and using their quotes to create news articles that may or may not be true but it doesn't matter because they need to invent stories and ride the wave of interest and don't have time to wait for any real information to come out and validate these claims.

 

These accounts could be true, or they could not but I'm not paying any attention to them. I'm waiting for the actual investigation.

Waiting for the actual investigation is the best thing one can do. I applaud your effort coasterbill!

[Duff]

^ Agree with you in theory. But we'll see how many facts are actually released. My guess is few.

[tykunkel1031]

I'm gonna say it right off the bat, I have no clue what could've been the issue. It could've been Velcro restraints, the metal bars/netting, etc. Speculation alone, in my opinion, isn't really a crime. But the problem is that there's people acting like experts on the situation. It's speculation. Your ideas. Definitely not proven facts like some are making it out to be.

 

My personal opinion is that Velcro wouldn't be the best option for a restraint on such an extreme ride. Yeah I'm sure it worked for a while, but I feel like a little plastic clicker thing (no idea how to describe. Lol) would be a much safer and secure bet. But (watch this part, it'll blow some of your minds) I'm not sure, I haven't even ridden this, let alone designed it. There's my thoughts (not facts ) on the whole drama part of this. My prayers are definitely with Caleb's family and witnesses. That's such a traumatic event for anyone even remotely connected. It's scary stuff.

[DorneyKid14]

If I do recall correctly, didn't someone state that holding onto the ropes on the side was the only thing keeping them in their seat? So if this is true, could it be that his seat belt came undone, and he wasn't holding onto the ropes, and headed up flying out of his seat? Which then would cause the raft to go air born by the change in weight, causing the two women their injuries?

[blacksnake]

Everyone is focused on the belts, but I would bet the investigators are going to be taking a close look at the trim brakes.

[DoubleDown]

Wow, I think the velcro restraints are unacceptable. Something like the seatbelts they use on Intamins I think would be the appropriate restraint. Bringing up velcro restraints I was always amazed nobody ever got hurt on the rapids rides like Bigfoot and Roaring Rapids by getting out and moving around.

 

Even at the higher speeds that a previous member was talking about while including the videos, it just does not seem like the kid was flung out due to airtime. Maybe he was scared or tried to get out. Was he sitting in the back of the raft?

 

When your raft flips and you are upside down, head underwater; you will be happy you are able to release the restraint yourself and not wait for a ride operator with a key to find you.

 

 

I haven't really been on any intamin water rides with belts, but are they different from the ones intamin usually uses? The click-in, squeeze out ones?

 

Exactly. I'm talking about the seat belts themselves that click in and squeeze out. Not restraints that you need a ride operators help or a key to get out of. They are just as easy to release as any seatbelt in a car, and they won't come undone during the ride.

[SoCalJasonland]

Wow, I think the velcro restraints are unacceptable. Something like the seatbelts they use on Intamins I think would be the appropriate restraint. Bringing up velcro restraints I was always amazed nobody ever got hurt on the rapids rides like Bigfoot and Roaring Rapids by getting out and moving around.

 

Even at the higher speeds that a previous member was talking about while including the videos, it just does not seem like the kid was flung out due to airtime. Maybe he was scared or tried to get out. Was he sitting in the back of the raft?

 

When your raft flips and you are upside down, head underwater; you will be happy you are able to release the restraint yourself and not wait for a ride operator with a key to find you.

 

 

I haven't really been on any intamin water rides with belts, but are they different from the ones intamin usually uses? The click-in, squeeze out ones?

 

Exactly. I'm talking about the seat belts themselves that click in and squeeze out. Not restraints that you need a ride operators help or a key to get out of. They are just as easy to release as any seatbelt in a car, and they won't come undone during the ride.

 

Intamin type latching belts might work but the current Intamin round rapids raft seat belts are loose lap belts that aren't used on drops over 20 feet. The water park would need to design a latching OTSR that is easily size adjustable to protect against the negative G's. I was also responding to previous poster that had mentioned that since Velcro was able to be opened by the rider that he might have let himself out because he was afraid so they shouldn't use it. I was just saying locking people in will not help if the raft flips. People need to be trusted that the belt is there for their protection and they should not remove it during the ride. Water slides are like roller coasters and will have their flaws until they work them out. At one point, lapbars alone were good enough for steel coasters until someone was ejected and further restraint designs were developed. Hopefully, they get things worked out and this is their last accident.

[crowster2]

My understanding is that "safety system" to secure riders was hook & loops; otherwise known as 'Velcro', although not Velcro specifically, a knock-off. Boy was only 10 and, supposedly, under height requirement for ride. Sadly, he was decapitated.

[cloudeleven]

I'm not even sure real ride engineers were used in building this ride.

 

I watched the TV documentary of building this ride, and the guy who came up with the idea of the ride (who I think was one of the park owners) seemed so obsessed with building the "world's tallest water slide" that to me it seemed like he pretty much designed it himself and tested it on a "let's see if it works basis." It didn't work the first time with rafts flying off the ride so they re-did the ride until "it worked" and rafts weren't flying off the ride. When they were building it he seemed in a big hurry to get the slide open by the beginning of that summer season, although it ended up being delayed.

[ALT2870]

I'm not even sure real ride engineers were used in building this ride.

 

I watched the TV documentary of building this ride, and the guy who came up with the idea of the ride (who I think was one of the park owners) seemed so obsessed with building the "world's tallest water slide" that to me it seemed like he pretty much designed it himself and tested it on a "let's see if it works basis." It didn't work the first time with rafts flying off the ride so they re-did the ride until "it worked" and rafts weren't flying off the ride. When they were building it he seemed in a big hurry to get the slide open by the beginning of that summer season, although it ended up being delayed.

 

Have you ever heard of sensationalizing a story? (It is television after all, they pick and choose the best parts.) All you are doing is adding wood to the fire. Were they in a hurry? A little bit yes, but they still spent the extra time and money to get it right. Also, please read the whole topic before you comment about the engineers.

[Cavs Fan]

How big of a hit would the park take if it were to remove the ride? Was it a popular ride anyways? I'm sure it attracted thrill seekers but it doesn't look too enticing to the standard waterpark goer.

[Jaykethekid]

How big of a hit would the park take if it were to remove the ride? Was it a popular ride anyways? I'm sure it attracted thrill seekers but it doesn't look too enticing to the standard waterpark goer.

When it opened it had 4 hour waits and even a slow day this year it averages a 45 minute wait. It's a huge draw for the park.