Jump to content
  TPR Home | Parks | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Instagram 

Six Flags Equal Access Pass Eliminated As Of November 6 2015


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 104
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Asking someone to provide proof is DEFINITELY illegal when it comes to service animals, so I'm not so sure the same doesn't apply to all other disabilities covered under ADA as well.

Two other specific instances are covered—buying handicap seating tickets and the right to use a powered scooter—seemingly leaving all remaining cases in somewhat of a gray area.

 

Here are the relevant excerpts:

Prevention of fraud in purchase of tickets for accessible seating. A public accommodation may not require proof of disability, including, for example, a doctor´s note, before selling tickets for accessible seating.
In lieu of a valid, State-issued disability parking placard or card, or State-issued proof of disability, a public accommodation shall accept as a credible assurance a verbal representation, not contradicted by observable fact, that the other power-driven mobility device is being used for a mobility disability.

Nowhere (that I can find) does the law address the generalization of this principle to any other cases. A litigant could potentially contend that SF's AAP effectively constitutes a handicapped seating ticket. A stretch, perhaps, but stranger things have been successfully argued.

 

Also relevant: one discussion point regarding the mobility device case does note, sans further citation, "the Department's longstanding, well-established policy of not allowing public accommodations or establishments to require proof of a mobility disability." It further explains, "There is no question that public accommodations have a legitimate interest in ferreting out fraudulent representations of mobility disabilities,... However, the privacy of individuals with mobility disabilities and respect for those individuals are also vitally important."

 

Six Flags seems to preempt a suit on the grounds of this privacy intrusion with their policy: "The note must NOT describe or indicate the nature of the disability."

 

Being really interested in how this may play out, I spoke informally on the topic with two lawyer acquaintances. One thought that, while the Six Flags policy runs counter to the spirit of the law, that they had implemented the necessary details to avoid a court decision against them. The other agreed with your assessment that Six Flags would lose the suit you proposed.

 

I'd have to imagine someone will file suit, sooner or later. So perhaps we'll get to see.

 

To me personally, the Six Flags policy is highly reasonable and appropriate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure Six Flags Corporate spent a long time with their lawyers before implementing a policy like this. If they're rolling it out, I'm pretty sure even if someone tried to sue them, they would be in the clear.

 

I would say I agree with that...except no other chain of parks has anything similar.

 

Disney's FAQ on their GAC program even implies their legal team thinks it is not kosher:

 

Why doesn’t Disney Parks ask for proof of disability, such as a doctor’s note?

Disney Parks takes Guests at their word and there are legal restrictions around asking for proof.

 

This will certainly be fun to watch!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SFGAm used to require a doctor's note in the late 90's to early 2000's. Most of the people that complained were from out of state. They always claimed that they didn't know about the policy because they were from out of state. From what I saw they were always denied even if their handicap was obvious. That policy did keep the pass from being abused so I'm happy it's coming back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the idea behind it. However, this is going to end badly for six flags. If someone goes up to them and says "I have a disability and need this accommodation" and they deny that person because they don't have a doctors note, it is still going to get them sued.

 

Damn right! 'Murica!

 

...I'm moving to Japan. You're all welcome to join.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure Six Flags Corporate spent a long time with their lawyers before implementing a policy like this. If they're rolling it out, I'm pretty sure even if someone tried to sue them, they would be in the clear.

 

I would say I agree with that...except no other chain of parks has anything similar.

 

Disney's FAQ on their GAC program even implies their legal team thinks it is not kosher:

 

Why doesn’t Disney Parks ask for proof of disability, such as a doctor’s note?

Disney Parks takes Guests at their word and there are legal restrictions around asking for proof.

 

This will certainly be fun to watch!

 

This should definitely be interesting to see. I'm thinking Disney is using legal restrictions in place of "We're the happiest place on earth and don't want to piss off people" but I could be wrong. SF doesn't have any parks in FL, so maybe there is some additional restriction in that state? Hopefully if Six Flags is successful with this, Cedar Fair will follow suit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone who's seen this pass being abused WAY too often, I feel it's about time that they started requiring some sort of proof. I just hope that Six Flags doesn't turn around on this after the backlash of people abusing the system bitching about how they can't do that anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My Six Flags inside source (who works a full-time salaried, non-dippin dots, position) informed me that Disney won a lawsuit and set precedence for the new Six Flags policy to be considered lawful under the ADA. This source says that people who truly need the special accommodations are very respectful and understanding of the new policy.

 

So there is some food for thought.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This source says that people who truly need the special accommodations are very respectful and understanding of the new policy.

 

This. The guests that legitimately need the pass, don't b*tch. The guests that do b*tch, don't need the pass and are just angry they can't abuse the system any longer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

during WCB i was trying to get my 2016 meal plan added and waited a long time having to listen to an overweight gentleman bitch and bitch to try to get a pass. actually, two passes for his wife and him, and their whole entire family. much respect to the manager their at guest services to stay firm and not give it to them. they were simply just lazy.

 

having to have a doctors note will kill any long arguments about this and let the employees handle more important stuff, like me getting my sports bottle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

having to have a doctors note will kill any long arguments about this and let the employees handle more important stuff, like me getting my sports bottle.

 

I can tell you from personal experience it won't kill all the long arguments. Some people are incredibly stubborn when it comes to a change like this and will use the excuse "well it never used to be like this so why should I have to provide one now" until their last breath. I will be very interested to see how this plays out in the US thats for sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know in NJ, in order to park in a handicap parking space, you have to have your dr fill out and sign a form you pick up at the MVC in order to get a handicap license plate or the hanging placard you put on your rear view mirror. . So im pretty sure SF asking for a note is perfectly legal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know in NJ, in order to park in a handicap parking space, you have to have your dr fill out and sign a form you pick up at the MVC in order to get a handicap license plate or the hanging placard you put on your rear view mirror. . So im pretty sure SF asking for a note is perfectly legal.

 

HUGE difference between a government issued placard and ride access. The ADA has an exemption in place that allows states to regulate handicapped parking placards to avoid fraud. It also applies to discounted public transit fare. That exemption doesn't apply to private businesses because then they could simply discriminate or not accommodate under the guise of "well, they didn't prove it."

 

I couldn't find any news of Disney winning that lawsuit (all I could find is that there is one attorney based in florida who keeps suing Disney over their new policies), so I'd be really curious to know more info on that as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've attended Disney World with someone who requested (and hoenstly needed it) a GAC card in the last year and I thought Disney's system was very fair, they assign you a return time based on current waits (if I remember correctly) so guests needing asistance don't have to wait in line but can't really absue the system by rideing and re-rideing over and over without a wait. Disney is a little different because they offer fastpass so everyone, including guests needing assitance, can everyoneuse the fastpass system to minimize their waits.

 

Six Flags is kind of in a no win situation, the system has been abused for soem time so they need to do something, but I'm not sure if requiring "proof" is really the correct solution. I wouldn't be surprised if this policy is modified at some point. I mean I also don't see why Six Flags can't intorduce a current wait time based return policy similar to Disney that's harder to absue, that seems like a much easier fix, atleast see how that works out before a drastic policy change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This new program is current-wait-time-based. At least in proclamation.

The attraction attendant will document a reservation time that is comparable to the current wait time for the same ride/attraction.
Attraction Access Passes are not designed to bypass or “skip” the standard queue and the wait will be equal to the posted wait times.

Was this also true of the previous program, or did it act as more of a skip-the-wait system?

 

I wonder if, in the new system, you can go around and sign up at every ride? Or will they use a Q-bot or somehow otherwise ensure only one ride is booked at a time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure if someone shows up with an obvious disability they'll get the pass anyways. Six Flags can't be that stupid.

 

 

This is the problem with the system right here. Obviously someone in a wheelchair doesn't need a doctor's note to prove they're disabled, neither does someone with all the obvious signs of Down's Syndrome. And I highly doubt most employees would have the stomach to deny the person the pass even if they're supposed to (can you see the facebook headlines now? "They wouldn't give my husband who lost a leg serving his country a pass because he didn't have a note from his doctor"). So the only people the policy would apply to in that case is people who don't obviously "look" disabled which is incredibly unfair.

 

I'm gonna go way out on a limb and guess that the numbers of people who lie about having a disability is actually incredibly small compared to the number of people who jump the line the old-fashioned way. No, that day you saw someone using the pass who didn't "look" disabled to you does not prove otherwise. Far be it from me to go against all the people here who are so concerned about how long they have to wait in line (although the new system is current-wait-time based, so people abusing it hurts no one but Six Flags who is trying to sell flash passes), but yes, requiring someone to go to the doctor and get a note before they go to the park is a massive inconvenience, especially if the person works full time or has a family. I don't believe this policy is fair or appropriate. Corporations will always do whatever they think they can get away with but I have a feeling this policy is going to collapse in on itself pretty quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks, Neil. I've been reading this topic for a few days but I haven't said anything yet, because I'm honestly torn on the idea. On the one hand, Six Flags like any business has a responsibility to its disabled guests to ensure that they can have a good time like anyone else. It also has a responsibility to its guests who are not disabled to ensure that they can have a good time. These goals don't necessarily conflict, but we all know sometimes they can and do.

 

My son has autism. I don't think I've shared this before on this forum because I don't want to be one of those Parents of Special Needs Children. I've met a few on other forums and sometimes in real life, and those people are obnoxious. Having a disability doesn't mean you need a free pass for everything, and I think we can all agree on that.

 

Theme parks have been a great way to connect with my son, and for that, I am very grateful. We have fun as a family at theme parks in ways that don't happen in other places. I have never seen my son smile as big as when he's on a roller coaster. Screamin' Eagle is his favourite.

 

So the last thing I want is for a theme park to make things more difficult for people like us. Just looking at my son, you may not see his disability, but get to know him and you will. We don't ask for special favours, and we don't want to make things difficult for anyone else. We wait in line, and go on days when lines aren't too bad. We do take up a bit more space in the queue, as my son doesn't stand still well, but people have generally been kind and allowed some room. I think it's been a great learning experience for him. There will always be lines, in grocery stores and school and everywhere else. Learning to wait is hard but necessary.

 

So how does Six Flags protect its disabled guests and also weed out the aforementioned Parents of Special Needs Children? I don't know. I hope this works out well for everyone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^I appreciate your thoughts, as the sibling of a disabled person and who works full-time with disabled adults I also have a slightly different perspective on this. In my opinion you don't need to be torn on this particular issue. The idea behind the current system is you're not skipping the line, just spending the time you would be waiting in line somewhere else (like sitting on a bench). I think this is a fair and equitable method and no one who needs it should feel bad for using it. Protecting the system from abuse does not serve the interests of the general public, the only people who stand to gain is Six Flags. They have a tendency to put profits over costumer satisfaction and this ugly, insensitive policy is just one more example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here come the screams about "equal rights" for the disabled, and how this is restricting those rights. I personally think it's great, but like others have pointed out, it's easy to forge a note. I did it all the time at school (eventually got caught because of the "all the time" part).

 

Imagine if you had to go to your doctor to prove you are healthy enough to ride a coaster before Six Flags would let you ride it....

 

I don't have a "dog in this fight", but this is potentially huge news for the industry so it's fun to watch it play out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here come the screams about "equal rights" for the disabled, and how this is restricting those rights. I personally think it's great, but like others have pointed out, it's easy to forge a note. I did it all the time at school (eventually got caught because of the "all the time" part).

 

So in other words it won't effect the people it's designed to effect (dishonest people) but it will negatively effect those who don't deserve it (honest people). Sounds like a fantastic policy to me! Or maybe you're saying you don't think it goes far enough? Maybe they should have someone come up behind the guest, grab away their crutches and see if they fall over?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here come the screams about "equal rights" for the disabled, and how this is restricting those rights. I personally think it's great, but like others have pointed out, it's easy to forge a note. I did it all the time at school (eventually got caught because of the "all the time" part).

 

Imagine if you had to go to your doctor to prove you are healthy enough to ride a coaster before Six Flags would let you ride it....

 

I don't have a "dog in this fight", but this is potentially huge news for the industry so it's fun to watch it play out.

 

A little off-topic, sorry but with people talking about what is legal and not legal I remembered that I've seen in parks in Asia where people over 50 are not allowed on some of the bigger thrill rides/coasters or in 4D cinemas at the multiplexes. Heck I even saw a log flume once where up to 65 year olds could ride for men but only 55 years old for women. I just wonder how that would play out if other parks had those kinds of policies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to see them come out with the statement that since they can't have people prove they are disabled that they must treat everyone as they could be disabled. So from hence further; we have renamed our "regular line" the "disabled line" and everyone is free to enjoy it. Congratulations! You are all special, enjoy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here come the screams about "equal rights" for the disabled, and how this is restricting those rights. I personally think it's great, but like others have pointed out, it's easy to forge a note. I did it all the time at school (eventually got caught because of the "all the time" part).

 

So in other words it won't effect the people it's designed to effect (dishonest people) but it will negatively effect those who don't deserve it (honest people). Sounds like a fantastic policy to me! Or maybe you're saying you don't think it goes far enough? Maybe they should have someone come up behind the guest, grab away their crutches and see if they fall over?

 

I was wondering when the computer gaming industry's approach of screwing legitimate customers while doing nothing to deter their actual targets (pirates) would leech out into other industries. I have a friend who is legally blind, though not totally, and also has MS. She doesn't always appear outwardly disabled (some days she walks much better than others, and some days she can't even hold a fork). I wonder how many of you would see her on one of her better days walking from the Handicapped parking lot and think to yourselves, "there's no way she should be parking there." I don't think there's any fair way they can enforce this policy, but being Six Flags, they'll try. Personally, I'd make a bag of popcorn and watch the huge CF unfold next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use https://themeparkreview.com/forum/topic/116-terms-of-service-please-read/