Clever park masterplanning and infrastructure ideas

[andybarnes84]

Hi everyone,

 

So I've got my invite for the masterplanning and infrastructure workshop being held by London Paramount Resort in March, which will focus on the importance of good masterplanning and design for long term success along with noise abatement, visual impact for neighbours and sustainable infrastructure. All very dry topics I know!

 

But it got me thinking, what parks around the world have got it right when it comes to planning and infrastructure? And on the flip side, which parks have failed miserably?

 

What parks have you been to that have come up with an idea, no matter how simple, to make things incredibly efficient in their operations or to blend in with the local environment with minimal impact?

[pyrocoasterkid]

All very dry topics I know!

 

As someone who has a Geography/Cartography Bachelor's Degree and a City Planning Master's Degree, I completely disagree! I have always been interested in a cross between my education and one of my hobbies (theme parks/coasters). I'm sure there is a good amount of planning that goes in to the design of parks, just like in cities. That said, I never found a job that crossed it all for me and have admittedly done little research on it, so I will be interested in seeing how people reply!

[Brassinthegrass]

When I think about parks that kind of fail,in overall design, SFGAm comes to mind, the fact that it is for the most part one giant loop kind of kills the ability to get across the park quickly... I also feel like parks that have some sort of transport system to get you across park quickly always help drastically. Magic Kingdom's train, SFGAdv Sky Ride, they really do a great job and getting people around the park, and allow for great views...

[1aflack]

I guess you could start off with three main plans, I would guess all parks follow these one way or the other. Some combine them.

 

The Disneyland model of getting everyone up a central retail path to the centre of the park where all the lands then fan out, there are also links between the lands.

 

The second is the round a circle route where parks are laid out in a circle, maybe round a lake.

 

Lastly is the bit of a mess where a park is just expanded seemly without any thought or rhythm. Something like Thorpe Park.

 

Personally I think it's difficult to beat the Disneyworld/land masterplan for extracting money out of people, what better way than having everyone walk straight past all the shops every time they walk into and leave the park. Also having a icon at the centre of the park makes having shows that are visible from the whole park easier.

 

Interesting topic.

[Ccron10]

When I think about parks that kind of fail,in overall design, SFGAm comes to mind, the fact that it is for the most part one giant loop kind of kills the ability to get across the park quickly... I also feel like parks that have some sort of transport system to get you across park quickly always help drastically. Magic Kingdom's train, SFGAdv Sky Ride, they really do a great job and getting people around the park, and allow for great views...

Randall Duell designed the park as a wheel so guests can work their way around it and have the ability to take a mode of transportation to skip over the massive loop you would need to walk. Back in the 70's and 80's the park had the railroad and two skyrides making an "X" over the park. While one didn't act as a mode of transportation, it was supposed to once the Southwest Territory was built (but that didn't happen until many years after that skyride was removed). Having visited last year, it was annoying going from V2 over to around Demon but the railroad being closed didn't help either.

[theymitbgi]

When I think about parks that kind of fail,in overall design, SFGAm comes to mind, the fact that it is for the most part one giant loop kind of kills the ability to get across the park quickly... I also feel like parks that have some sort of transport system to get you across park quickly always help drastically. Magic Kingdom's train, SFGAdv Sky Ride, they really do a great job and getting people around the park, and allow for great views...

Randall Duell designed the park as a wheel so guests can work their way around it and have the ability to take a mode of transportation to skip over the massive loop you would need to walk. Back in the 70's and 80's the park had the railroad and two skyrides making an "X" over the park. While one didn't act as a mode of transportation, it was supposed to once the Southwest Territory was built (but that didn't happen until many years after that skyride was removed). Having visited last year, it was annoying going from V2 over to around Demon but the railroad being closed didn't help either.

 

This was my biggest complaint about SFGAM! If they could just add a path in the middle that would cut the giant loop in half, it would be helpful.

[Geauga Dog]

When I think of good parks from a design point of view I think of Kings Island. It does follow the basic Disneyland style layout (central path - International Street to a hub - Eiffel Tower) but it sort of was designed as a four leaf clover that has since morphed into a somewhat more circular route around the hub that makes getting around quite easy despite having a lack of transportation from one end to the other. For being a large park it doesn't seem that large when going from, for example, Racer to Diamondback or even Eiffel Tower to The Beast.

[3Mutts]

I hate SFNEs layout, Every time I visit it is a lot of going back and forth due to its T junction design. SFGAdv is also pretty bad since it has a ton of dead ends (some of which don't even need to exist [Old Country])

[sirspud]

I love Busch Gardens Tampa, but while the grounds are very nicely landscaped and themed, one starting a park from scratch would certainly want to do anything but emulate this park. It's essentially a very large loop with a spur sticking out to go to Montu, but navigating it is not near as simple because of the variety of attractions. The additions of Sheikra and Cheetah Hunt have balanced the park out a bit more, as Sheikra gave most park goers a reason to finally go to that part of the park (past Stanleyville Falls) and Cheetah Hunt fills a void that used to be glaring between the park entrance and Egypt. Another irksome thing is the the train ride, which could serve effectively as a transport ride and is actually a highlight attraction on its own, is first accessible some distance into the park and only makes sense as a transport ride in the middle of the day, and is entirely useless for those just entering the park. The skyride, only every so slightly more accessible to the park entrance, is again almost irrelevant for those really wanting quick transport to a rear portion of the park.

 

Unfortunately the difficulty in getting to some sections of the park compared to the dramatic ease of others means that attractions like Gwazi and Cheetah Hunt, lower capacity than Kumba and Montu, are also exceptionally quick to become a wait because its impossible to get to other rides without passing these, whereas it's such a trek to get to Kumba and Montu that only those determined to get to them happen upon them.

[willthegolfer]

When I think about parks that kind of fail,in overall design, SFGAm comes to mind, the fact that it is for the most part one giant loop kind of kills the ability to get across the park quickly... I also feel like parks that have some sort of transport system to get you across park quickly always help drastically. Magic Kingdom's train, SFGAdv Sky Ride, they really do a great job and getting people around the park, and allow for great views...

Randall Duell designed the park as a wheel so guests can work their way around it and have the ability to take a mode of transportation to skip over the massive loop you would need to walk. Back in the 70's and 80's the park had the railroad and two skyrides making an "X" over the park. While one didn't act as a mode of transportation, it was supposed to once the Southwest Territory was built (but that didn't happen until many years after that skyride was removed). Having visited last year, it was annoying going from V2 over to around Demon but the railroad being closed didn't help either.

 

This was my biggest complaint about SFGAM! If they could just add a path in the middle that would cut the giant loop in half, it would be helpful.

Exactly right. It is so annoyingly difficult to get from County Fair or Hometown Square to Yankee Harbor. If I had a dollar for every time I wanted to go to batman and wished there was a path to cut the loop, I would almost have enough to pay for a bottle of water.

[Gnome]

I used to hate how California Adventure in the back of Hollywood Tower of Terror was just a dead end despite being so close to Bugs Land. They since attached the two lands, and with the addition of Carsland, the park is very navigable.

 

Some of DCA's rides were also designed with consideration to neighbors. Many of California Screaming's hills have "tunnels" to block noise from traveling outside and it also helps keep guests "in the show" by limiting their view outside of the park.

[GwaziBSRider1]

Busch Gardens Williamsburg has been planned beautifully. You have the main loop, the shortcut between Heatherdowns and Rhinefest (even if it does involve a crap ton of stairs), and then the railroad and sky ride operating in opposite directions of one another. I suppose there are only two terrible things about the park layout:

1. Festa Italia only having one path in and out of the area. Though, the railroad does help alleviate the bottleneck. It'll really be put to the test this year with two headliners now.

2. The main loop kind of disappears in Rhinefest. It can be difficult getting to Alpengeist and the New France and Aquitaine areas if you're not sure where you're going.

[Propeller Factory]

Exactly right. It is so annoyingly difficult to get from County Fair or Hometown Square to Yankee Harbor. If I had a dollar for every time I wanted to go to batman and wished there was a path to cut the loop, I would almost have enough to pay for a bottle of water.

 

I laughed so hard because it's so true lol omg

 

*edit: I'm sorry this is a quote idk how to do things I'm sorry

[Propeller Factory]

Busch Gardens Williamsburg has been planned beautifully. You have the main loop, the shortcut between Heatherdowns and Rhinefest (even if it does involve a crap ton of stairs), and then the railroad and sky ride operating in opposite directions of one another. I suppose there are only two terrible things about the park layout:

1. Festa Italia only having one path in and out of the area. Though, the railroad does help alleviate the bottleneck. It'll really be put to the test this year with two headliners now.

2. The main loop kind of disappears in Rhinefest. It can be difficult getting to Alpengeist and the New France and Aquitaine areas if you're not sure where you're going.

 

1 that dead end can't really have anything done with it because roman rapids are just sitting there but the new coaster is kinda back there so there'll be more of a point to go back there.

2 from alpenguiest to Ireland it's just kinda weird the main path really isn't marked and if you don't know where you're going you may end up in he griffon dead end or something they need signs right there.

[thesman]

kind of simple but obvious that many parks have longer drive ways and divide parts up of the park and the rest of the town by a tree line.

[MrSum1_55]

Generally, Six Flags parks tend to be the easiest to navigate, while Busch parks tend to be the most difficult. The two Busch parks I have visited are the only two in which I cannot give you a good description of the layout after visiting once. A silver lining to the confusion is that both parks are well-themed, making the atmosphere more immersive and easier to 'get lost in the theming.'

 

I like my parks to take a middle-way on layout: just complex enough so that you can get lost in the atmosphere; not too simple so as to be boring, and not too confusing so that I do not have to look at a map every couple paces on my first visit. Most Disney parks are pretty good examples of this.

[willthegolfer]

Now that I come to think about it BGT is also a big loop with nothing to cut through it. Except I find it to be an even bigger loop than Sfgam's. Sheikra is quite hard to get too like Batman at Sfgam. Hopefully with gwazi's removal this will be improved since I think it was causing the layout problems by just taking up that huge space in the middle.

[gerstlaueringvar]

I really like SDC, Ocean Kingdom and Disneyland's layout.

[KarlaKoaster]

Disneyland Paris has a great layout in my opinion because it has the big loop that you can walk around from land to land, but it also has paths going through the centre like spokes, which means you can cut across the park and get from one side to the other extremely quickly.

 

The infrastructure is great too with the Eurostar train station right inside the resort and it is easy to get to by car.

[andybarnes84]

Wow some great thoughts on this topic so far, thank you everyone

 

Just a reminder of the proposed layout of Paramount London:

 

 

One issue that is London Paramount's major stumbling block so far would appear to be traffic as the main road to feed visitors into the resort is already very congested, and whilst they claim that won't be too much of a problem due to the park opening and closing outside of peak traffic times, I still think there is going to be major trouble, as do most of the locals.

 

This leads me on to kindly ask you to think back through your worst memories of traffic delays into a park/resort and why you think this occurred and why you think that particular park is vulnerable? What do you do when you don't have the luxury of free space such as WDW to filter your traffic through?

 

Questions in my own (confused) mind at the moment are:

 

1. Has the new Mickey & Friends parking structure at Disneyland California greatly reduced traffic issues in the area?

 

2. Do other parks such as Cedar Point generally cope well when it comes to traffic management?

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-erie/hundreds-of-people-were-stuck-in-the-cedar-point-parking-lot-saturday-night-after-halloweekends

 

3. Which parks have the most efficient parking booth employees and which are the slowest? Should there be seperate lanes for those who have pre-paid parking online or is this just a recipe for confusion?

 

Any thoughts on traffic issues at your favourite parks would be fantastic to hear, and also any further thoughts on noise abatement such as previously mentioned with California Screamin', also Silver Star and Balder etc would be useful.

[GwaziBSRider1]

The first thing that comes to mind for me is Hersheypark. The traffic jams trying to get into their parking lot get INSANE. The issue is that Hersheypark, Hershey's Chocolate World, the Giant Center, and Hershey Stadium ALL share the same, general parking area. Everybody goes through the same entrance, and the lot splits into sub-sections for the respective attractions. When I visited Hershey in October, there was a 1.5-2 mile jam for us to get into the park. The jam never really died down at all and it was (seemingly) in all directions.

[andybarnes84]

Have they recently changed this arrangement as embarrassingly on my last visit to Hershey I arrived at the wrong car park (chocolate world) and had to drive another 15 mins just to get to the main car park entrance!

[sirspud]

Now that I come to think about it BGT is also a big loop with nothing to cut through it. Except I find it to be an even bigger loop than Sfgam's. Sheikra is quite hard to get too like Batman at Sfgam. Hopefully with gwazi's removal this will be improved since I think it was causing the layout problems by just taking up that huge space in the middle.

 

It's doubtful that Busch Gardens will ever do away with that space in the middle anything soon without a major, major expansion there. For one, it's where the employee parking lot is located as well as the most easy to use employee entrance (the other is what you see on the train/skyride which is not practical for high volume timeframes such as when the cast and staff arrive for Howl-O-Scream, which is also what I worked as an employee). Second, they use that space right now for the aforementioned event as well as others like concerts. Third, as elongated as it is, there is a distinct loop to the park layout surrounding that section, what makes the layout bad besides just the sheer size of that is the fact that Montu is so darn far from that and going there makes you incredibly far from Sheikra and Kumba.

 

We may see some land added to the center of the park in the future, but I find it more likely another major attraction will be build in the space for Gwazi and the new theming will expand slightly from the present walkways.

Edited January 30, 2015 by sirspud

[willthegolfer]

That's right I forgot about the parking lot and other stuff they had in there. But still there could be some improvements with Gwazi gone.

[A.J.]

The first thing that comes to mind for me is Hersheypark. The traffic jams trying to get into their parking lot get INSANE. The issue is that Hersheypark, Hershey's Chocolate World, the Giant Center, and Hershey Stadium ALL share the same, general parking area. Everybody goes through the same entrance, and the lot splits into sub-sections for the respective attractions. When I visited Hershey in October, there was a 1.5-2 mile jam for us to get into the park. The jam never really died down at all and it was (seemingly) in all directions.

The layout isn't entirely to blame here.

 

A lot of navigation systems will route you on PA 39 Westbound to get to the park, and when you get to the signal, it's only a one-lane turn that doesn't open up into its own lane until you get fairly close to the signal. Then you have everyone else who uses PA 39 Eastbound, which has two lanes of traffic going straight but, again, doesn't open up to those two lanes until right before the signal. Yet, for some apparent reason, Hersheypark Drive Westbound gets a two-lane turn!

 

Add that to misleading overhead signage - there's a tiny little blue sign put up next to the big green one directing the three lanes into the parking lot, and it looks like an exit only sign but actually isn't. That means that drivers not familiar with the area that don't know how to read signage will OMGPANIC and try to shove their way over into the middle or the left because they think they won't be able to get into the park.

 

Add THAT to Chocolate World being a left exit, making people have to weave to get there if they're coming in on either direction of PA 39.