TheHalonSystem Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 This is something that I personally do wonder about. I understand the camera and loose article thing, but really, take out the whole loose article factor, then what is honestly the problem? Liability, copyright, idk? Heard this straight out of my "big boss's" (a.k.a Park President's) mouth. He acknowledges that accidents or breakdowns are incredibly rare, but he does not want to ever have something of that nature recorded and posted online or spread through media outlets. For example, would you want to have an accident POV of your Vekoma Boomerang going viral? I did hear this somewhere and honestly, you can say the same thing about filming anything anywhere And off ride footage is permitted as well and that can capture an accident just as well, if not in even more detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthwnd Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I never have, and I never intend to. And TPR has an amazing amount of POVs of pretty much every coaster in the world to enjoy, without having to jeopardize myself being banned from any park, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 If SF allows GoPros on their coasters, more people will buy GoPro for filming coaster videos but they won't get a cent out of it. Just kidding, I absolutely agree with Six Flags and other park chains about filming and loose articles. Even if you think whatever you're taking on the rides are secured, sometimes unexpected things just happen. Violating park rules doesn't make you a Hero, no matter what GoPro or other slogans say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Despite camera technology getting smaller and lighter, a GoPro coming loose, either by mount malfunction or user error, can still be lethal or cause serious injury. Such was the case with Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge at Universal, which no-longer duels as the result of a loose object injuring a guest. Always follow the rules. At the few parks that DO allow filming, perhaps consider purchasing a pair of Pivothead sunglasses, which are arguably safer when combined with a behind-the-ear strap. While I agree 100% with your "follow the rules" statement, I will say that it is more likely that a pair of Pivothead's will go flying (even with a strap) before a GoPro chest harness will. That's just the reality. The reality is this - parks are going to have to re-think the rules at some point soon because cameras are getting smaller, and more importantly, SAFER. When you see parks like Busch Gardens allow a chest-mounted camera without any problems at all on rides like Kumba, Montu, SheiKra, etc, and Six Flags won't allow them on the mine train, you have to start to ask yourself "What's wrong with this scenario?" The GoPro chest harness is incredibly safe. Even if it came unbuckled, which would be difficult to do, the chances of it falling off of your body would be very rare. I'd say you are going to have a much MUCH higher chance of a phone, wallet, or keys, that are actually secured in someone's pocket flying out before a GoPro would become detached from a chest harness. I used to be in the camp of not worrying about GoPros being secured to guests bodies. However, the enlightening detail for me is the possibility a guest could record a mechanical breakdown or evacuation. The last thing a park needs for PR is a video floating around which opens Pandora's Box for sensationalism, overreaction, and misinformed speculation because a coaster stopped on a lift or brake run and required a walk-down. But you're just going to have as many more people who can just take out their cell phone out of their pocket and take photos or videos. I highly doubt this is a real concern. Rides break down all the time, evacs happen at parks like Disney quite frequently where they allow all kinds of cameras on all the rides. If someone is going to REALLY try to make a ride evac a huge deal, the GoPro should be the least of your worries. And if it DOES happen, hey, be at least happy there might be some GOOD footage of whatever evac it is out there instead of crappy, vertical video cell phone users! lol I'm not suggesting anyone break the rules, but I do think parks are going to start to re-think them, especially when it comes to filming and the fact that cameras are changing. It's quite simply this - if a pair of sunglasses on my head is not consider a "loose item", then it is absolutely stupid that a GoPro on a chest harness is. "Wearable" technology is not a "loose article." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHalonSystem Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Despite camera technology getting smaller and lighter, a GoPro coming loose, either by mount malfunction or user error, can still be lethal or cause serious injury. Such was the case with Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge at Universal, which no-longer duels as the result of a loose object injuring a guest. Always follow the rules. At the few parks that DO allow filming, perhaps consider purchasing a pair of Pivothead sunglasses, which are arguably safer when combined with a behind-the-ear strap. While I agree 100% with your "follow the rules" statement, I will say that it is more likely that a pair of Pivothead's will go flying (even with a strap) before a GoPro chest harness will. That's just the reality. The reality is this - parks are going to have to re-think the rules at some point soon because cameras are getting smaller, and more importantly, SAFER. When you see parks like Busch Gardens allow a chest-mounted camera without any problems at all on rides like Kumba, Montu, SheiKra, etc, and Six Flags won't allow them on the mine train, you have to start to ask yourself "What's wrong with this scenario?" The GoPro chest harness is incredibly safe. Even if it came unbuckled, which would be difficult to do, the chances of it falling off of your body would be very rare. I'd say you are going to have a much MUCH higher chance of a phone, wallet, or keys, that are actually secured in someone's pocket flying out before a GoPro would become detached from a chest harness. I used to be in the camp of not worrying about GoPros being secured to guests bodies. However, the enlightening detail for me is the possibility a guest could record a mechanical breakdown or evacuation. The last thing a park needs for PR is a video floating around which opens Pandora's Box for sensationalism, overreaction, and misinformed speculation because a coaster stopped on a lift or brake run and required a walk-down. But you're just going to have as many more people who can just take out their cell phone out of their pocket and take photos or videos. I highly doubt this is a real concern. Rides break down all the time, evacs happen at parks like Disney quite frequently where they allow all kinds of cameras on all the rides. If someone is going to REALLY try to make a ride evac a huge deal, the GoPro should be the least of your worries. And if it DOES happen, hey, be at least happy there might be some GOOD footage of whatever evac it is out there instead of crappy, vertical video cell phone users! lol I'm not suggesting anyone break the rules, but I do think parks are going to start to re-think them, especially when it comes to filming and the fact that cameras are changing. It's quite simply this - if a pair of sunglasses on my head is not consider a "loose item", then it is absolutely stupid that a GoPro on a chest harness is. "Wearable" technology is not a "loose article." Thank you Robb! I wish there was a "Thumbs Up" button! You mind if I share this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 While the majority of us know how to secure our GoPros and can make sure they don't fall out, idiots are still out there and they will be ticking bombs if they are allowed to take their GoPro on the rides. Ride systems are designed to be operated by a bunch of 14-year-olds, coaster parts are designed to face all kinds of crazy weather and still function properly. So I think park rules are designed to ensure maximum safety so idiots won't kill the riders and blow up the rides. Those who know how to use and secure their technologies just have to deal with the fact that idiots are park visitors too. When accident does happen, park needs to take more responsibility if causing loose articles were allowed on ride. That can mean millions of dollars in court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfelice Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 This is a great discussion as we are in a pivotal time in terms of the advancement of video recording technology. It is great that we are picking apart everyone's arguments/points (including ones I have made). I believe the gray area in terms of what is a loose article and what is not loose is currently rather wide for most parks/managers. Right now, from what I can tell from experiences working within two parks is that parks are choosing the strict side of no cameras or recording of any kind because they do not want to fight the "how well is the item secured" debate. I believe as managers become more aware and informed of the technology for securing these cameras, they will begin to modify policies. Alluding back to a point I made about one of my bosses and his reluctance to allow harnessed cameras due to a concern for recording incidents, I understand and agree with his argument, but I also realize that with today's technology almost everything will be recorded in some manner. Therefore, cutting out one potential source of recording an incident is really just plucking one hair out of thousands. Personally, as operations manager I have several new video-recording policy modifications that are in development to update the outdated general loose article policy created before the rapid growth of GroPros and related devices. Reading through this thread gets me thinking about how to most effectively develop a policy that is safe, easy to define, and not ignorant to the advancement of modern technology. I'm not saying that Theme Park Review is the sole deciding factor of new video-recording polices, but I believe this discussion is good crowd-sourcing to learn more about this subject matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHalonSystem Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I'm still wondering about places where it's actually "illegal" to have a camera. Do those laws implement cameras, or loose articles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) Despite camera technology getting smaller and lighter, a GoPro coming loose, either by mount malfunction or user error, can still be lethal or cause serious injury. Such was the case with Dueling Dragons/Dragon Challenge at Universal, which no-longer duels as the result of a loose object injuring a guest. Always follow the rules. At the few parks that DO allow filming, perhaps consider purchasing a pair of Pivothead sunglasses, which are arguably safer when combined with a behind-the-ear strap. While I agree 100% with your "follow the rules" statement, I will say that it is more likely that a pair of Pivothead's will go flying (even with a strap) before a GoPro chest harness will. The reality is this - parks are going to have to re-think the rules at some point soon because cameras are getting smaller, and more importantly, SAFER. When you see parks like Busch Gardens allow a chest-mounted camera without any problems at all on rides like Kumba, Montu, SheiKra, etc, and Six Flags won't allow them on the mine train, you have to start to ask yourself "What's wrong with this scenario?" The GoPro chest harness is incredibly safe. Even if it came unbuckled, which would be difficult to do, the chances of it falling off of your body would be very rare. I'd say you are going to have a much MUCH higher chance of a phone, wallet, or keys, that are actually secured in someone's pocket flying out before a GoPro would become detached from a chest harness. I used to be in the camp of not worrying about GoPros being secured to guests bodies. However, the enlightening detail for me is the possibility a guest could record a mechanical breakdown or evacuation. The last thing a park needs for PR is a video floating around which opens Pandora's Box for sensationalism, overreaction, and misinformed speculation because a coaster stopped on a lift or brake run and required a walk-down. But you're just going to have as many more people who can just take out their cell phone out of their pocket and take photos or videos. I highly doubt this is a real concern. Rides break down all the time, evacs happen at parks like Disney quite frequently where they allow all kinds of cameras on all the rides. If someone is going to REALLY try to make a ride evac a huge deal, the GoPro should be the least of your worries. And if it DOES happen, hey, be at least happy there might be some GOOD footage of whatever evac it is out there instead of crappy, vertical video cell phone users! lol I'm not suggesting anyone break the rules, but I do think parks are going to start to re-think them, especially when it comes to filming and the fact that cameras are changing. It's quite simply this - if a pair of sunglasses on my head is not consider a "loose item", then it is absolutely stupid that a GoPro on a chest harness is. "Wearable" technology is not a "loose article." While the majority of us know how to secure our GoPros and can make sure they don't fall out, idiots are still out there and they will be ticking bombs if they are allowed to take their GoPro on the rides. But the same can be said even moreso for hats, wallets, glasses, etc. Again, I'm not suggesting anyone break the rules, but I do think parks need to take a close look at them. Gone are the days where people are carrying 2 pound hand-held handycams on a ride and when those become a 2-pound projectile because some dumbass isn't used to the forces of a roller coaster, that's a HUGE deal. But a chest mounted GoPro or a pair of Pivothead glasses? I don't see why those items shouldn't be allowed. I always go back to my philosophy on Disney... When I can carry an entire backpack, bags full of goodies, or pretty much anything I can hold in my hand onto a ride like Tower of Terror, Rock N Roller Coaster, or Space Mountain at Walt Disney World, and a ride like Space Mountain that has some extreme airtime and lateral moments *IN. THE. DARK* and not only does Walt Disney World not see a problem with this, but the amount of incidents are EXTREMELY rare, I have to ask... shouldn't I be allowed to wear a totally secured GoPro on any other ride in the US? EDIT: And keep in mind on all three of those Disney rides listed, you're not even required to told on to most items! "Just put it down by your feet" is what I'm told anytime I have a bag with me. There are at least two or three moments on that ride where you get ejector airtime. Never once in the hundreds of times I've been at that park have I seen or heard of there being an issue because of this. Edited March 9, 2015 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllenA07 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I've got a Go Pro, and yeah when using the chest mount the thing isn't going anywhere. I'm not about to break Park rules because I don't care that much, but I'm 100% confident that a Go Pro with a chest mount is completely safe. I agree with Robb, items in pockets are far more likely to be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Many parks have also made exceptions for glasses "with a strap" and I feel that the same should be made for a chest mount. The GoPro chest mount has one buckle on it, in the front, very visable. It should actually be EASIER and less time consuming for a ride op to visually see that someone wearing a GoPro chest mount has it secured than it does for a ride op to check for a glasses strap. The Busch Gardens/SeaWorld parks allow this on all of their BIG roller coasters. I see no reason why it also shouldn't be allowed on many other rides around the world. Edited March 9, 2015 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ape Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 Will the parks police Apple watches whenever they decide to add a camera to them? Parks have rules for a reason but i dont personally see an issue with the GoPro chest mounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 (edited) Parks have rules for a reason but i dont personally see an issue with the GoPro chest mounts. Parks have the "no filming rule" for safety reasons because cameras/cell phones/etc, loose on rides ARE dangerous. So the blanket rule of "no filming" covers all of that. But now that cameras are getting smaller and more secure, Pivotheads, Google Glass, GoPros, and you're absolutely right, smartwatches that absolutely will have cameras in them is going to force parks to have to re-think these rules because at the end of the day, trying to tell me that these items are unsafe just makes the parks look ignorant. I also don't buy any excuse I've heard from some parks for not being able to film due to "copyright reasons", because... Disney. Hello. Disney lets you film pretty much anything. And if I can film some of the most recognizable, copyrighted properties on the planet at a Disney park, and plaster them all over Facebook and YouTube, then I should be able to film any random roller coaster anywhere in the world and if you tell me the reason is due to "copyright issues" I will gladly laugh in your face, because it's totally a bullshit excuse. And the parks that say this, know this. Edited March 9, 2015 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ape Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 i can see it now. "sir could you please keep your arm down taking a video with your smart watch may cause you to punch yourself in the nose" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHalonSystem Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I also don't buy any excuse I've heard from some parks for not being able to film due to "copyright reasons", because... Disney. Hello. Disney lets you film pretty much anything. And if I can film some of the most recognizable, copyrighted properties on the planet at a Disney park, and plaster them all over Facebook and YouTube, then I should be able to film any random roller coaster anywhere in the world and if you tell me the reason is due to "copyright issues" I will gladly laugh in your face, because it's totally a bullshit excuse. And the parks that say this, know this. It doesn't give you the same feeling as riding the thing. It actually can promote your ride. I decided to change my trip to Disney to Busch Gardens after watching POV'S of Kumba you posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1ngdaKa88 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 A german YouTuber I know has also filmed several POV's with a GoPro and a chest mount in Europe. In very few parks they said that he isn't allowed to film. At Connyland he wasn't allowed to make a POV of Cobra. Later when he made a review for the coaster, the park chief wrote him that the next time he can do a POV. I also had to take off my glasses, even if I fixed them with a strap, and I said that to the ride op. but he still said that I'm not allowed to wear my glasses. So I had to ride it without glasses and I saw it like 144p!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 ^ If I park has a "no glasses at all...even with a strap" rule (which I personally think is dumb), then I would probably understand why they also wouldn't allow a chest mounted GoPro. But still, at the end of the day, I can take a bag full of loose sharpened pencils on Rock N Roller Coaster at Walt Disney World. Explain to me again why I can't have glasses with a strap at some parks? Yeah. I thought so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1ngdaKa88 Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 ^I don't know It worked all well with the glasses and the strap! Even Expedition GeForce with strong ejector air!! Often they just asked if the glasses are fixed and I said yes and all was okay. At Connyland on another ride there was a big sign: NO LOOSE ARTICLES, but the ride op. didn't even asked because of my glasses!!! Sometimes I don't understand some park rules. Also at Disney, it is crazy that the allowd all that stuff you said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeagain? Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 We've started allowing GoPros with a head strap, chest strap, or GoPro branded wrist strap. Others with management approval. I'd rather see you use a GoPro then try to use a cell phone without any kind of protection. Hats and glasses can be worn but depending on the ride we'll recommend you remove them. I don't see a reason to limit recording, assuming it's done safely. More online presence advertising the products that you have to offer is generally a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarlaKoaster Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I think a lot of parks are lazy in applying rules and their default response is "no". I think sometimes it's just down to parks not wanting to allow their staff any discretion so it's easier for them to say "no" to anything. I can't see any good reason not to allow Go Pros which are mounted on chest harnesses onto coasters so long as it doesn't interfere with restraints (only ride I can think would be an issue might be the Maurer X Coasters). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 ^I don't knowIt worked all well with the glasses and the strap! Even Expedition GeForce with strong ejector air!! Often they just asked if the glasses are fixed and I said yes and all was okay. At Connyland on another ride there was a big sign: NO LOOSE ARTICLES, but the ride op. didn't even asked because of my glasses!!! Sometimes I don't understand some park rules. Also at Disney, it is crazy that the allowd all that stuff you said! I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was just saying that parks that have a "no glasses with strap rule" probably also won't allow GoPros on a chest mount. I wasn't talking about your experience specifically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted March 9, 2015 Share Posted March 9, 2015 I think a lot of parks are lazy in applying rules and their default response is "no". I think sometimes it's just down to parks not wanting to allow their staff any discretion so it's easier for them to say "no" to anything. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCI Wooden Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have a question, how come chest-mounted GoPros aren't allowed but during Math and Science week at Cedar Point chest mounted accelerometers are allowed? https://www.cedarpoint.com/images/uploads/file/2015%20Accelerometer%20Policy.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedholm Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I have a question, how come chest-mounted GoPros aren't allowed but during Math and Science week at Cedar Point chest mounted accelerometers are allowed? https://www.cedarpoint.com/images/uploads/file/2015%20Accelerometer%20Policy.pdf Educational purposes and you're not filming the ride but instead just have a monitor attached are the 2 reasons that come to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCI Wooden Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 (edited) I have a question, how come chest-mounted GoPros aren't allowed but during Math and Science week at Cedar Point chest mounted accelerometers are allowed? https://www.cedarpoint.com/images/uploads/file/2015%20Accelerometer%20Policy.pdf Educational purposes and you're not filming the ride but instead just have a monitor attached are the 2 reasons that come to mind. Yeah, but with this we can say that their "It's for safety" reason for not allowing chest mounted GoPros is just plain stupid. Edited March 10, 2015 by GCI Wooden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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