Stand-Up coasters= A failed concept?

[Canobie Coaster]

Togo and B&M stand-ups each have their pros and cons. The newer B&M ones are smoother and more forceful, but those forces make my legs feel like they'll explode on Green Lantern and Riddler's Revenge. I did really enjoy Georgia Scorcher since it wasn't quite as forceful and was glass smooth. The older B&M stand-ups had too much head-banging combined with painful forces.

 

The Togo ones don't kill my legs, but they kill other things with those transitions. Ejector air on a stand-up in those restraints is just horrifying, especially if it is followed by a quick banked turn.

[bill_s]

B&M vs. Togo, let's do a simple comparison. The B&M's are clearly intended to be glass smooth but you can't even make it around a simple banked turn without hurting your head. Togo, or at least Shockwave, except for the exit from the helix I didn't get the impression there was one single spot on the coaster that was rougher than intended or that got rougher as it aged. There were numerous spots of slight pain but most of them were exactly the same amount and they were all necessary to make the ride thrilling. It's not even close. B&M's standups make me doubt that they ever ride their own creations or their competition's for that matter, or they just think everything they do is automatically better. Maybe they can adequately imagine what it would be like to ride the things they get right, but you can't imagine how wrong their standups are (or flyers, for that matter) you just have to experience it.

 

The other thing Togo got right was the restraint, although they are odd and hard to get into and larger people hate them. Well away from you head and neck. The best restraints for a standup would have something like seat belts only above shoulder level. Actually, even better than that would be restraints with nothing over your shoulders, that theoretically you could climb out the top of, although this would require no inversions and some guest trust.

 

The Togo ones don't kill my legs, but they kill other things with those transitions. Ejector air on a stand-up in those restraints is just horrifying, especially if it is followed by a quick banked turn.

 

I'd let every B&M standup slide off the face of the Earth just to ride that one more time. In something like 2000 rides on Shockwave I don't think there was one time I wasn't sacred to crap for just an instant mid-ejection. The actual curve was intense, but not one tenth as painful as it seemed for a moment it was going to be. Brilliant! This is a really painful thread for me to contemplate.

[gerstlaueringvar]

It was developed because it was new and cool back in the 90's. Now that the wow factor isn't there anymore it's kind of pointless. But if they were shipped to a place where standup coasters don't exist or are converted to floorless coasters, it can be saved.

[Skramp]

I always loved stand ups just because it was different, kind of like riding an invert vs just a basic train design. I think Stand Ups could make a comeback. I was talking years ago where "what if" a stand up got the X2 treatment, meaning where the seats could move along the track. Imagine a 90 degree drop where the seats lay flat back and and as you crest the first hill you are suddenly pushed back into an upright position and could move up and down throughout the ride to change the overall experience.

[Canobie Coaster]

B&M vs. Togo, let's do a simple comparison. The B&M's are clearly intended to be glass smooth but you can't even make it around a simple banked turn without hurting your head. Togo, or at least Shockwave, except for the exit from the helix I didn't get the impression there was one single spot on the coaster that was rougher than intended or that got rougher as it aged. There were numerous spots of slight pain but most of them were exactly the same amount and they were all necessary to make the ride thrilling. It's not even close. B&M's standups make me doubt that they ever ride their own creations or their competition's for that matter, or they just think everything they do is automatically better. Maybe they can adequately imagine what it would be like to ride the things they get right, but you can't imagine how wrong their standups are (or flyers, for that matter) you just have to experience it.

 

The other thing Togo got right was the restraint, although they are odd and hard to get into and larger people hate them. Well away from you head and neck. The best restraints for a standup would have something like seat belts only above shoulder level. Actually, even better than that would be restraints with nothing over your shoulders, that theoretically you could climb out the top of, although this would require no inversions and some guest trust.

 

The Togo ones don't kill my legs, but they kill other things with those transitions. Ejector air on a stand-up in those restraints is just horrifying, especially if it is followed by a quick banked turn.

 

I'd let every B&M standup slide off the face of the Earth just to ride that one more time. In something like 2000 rides on Shockwave I don't think there was one time I wasn't sacred to crap for just an instant mid-ejection. The actual curve was intense, but not one tenth as painful as it seemed for a moment it was going to be. Brilliant! This is a really painful thread for me to contemplate.

 

I think the B&M layouts are salvagable with floorless or sit down trains as Cedar Fair has found out. The Togo ones were great going in a straight line but those transitions were bad. Did you ever ride Skyrider in Canada and experience that trick track?

[Johnlloyd]

I think the B&M layouts are salvagable with floorless or sit down trains as Cedar Fair has found out. The Togo ones were great going in a straight line but those transitions were bad. Did you ever ride Skyrider in Canada and experience that trick track?

 

Interestingly enough, I never had one bad ride on SkyRider. I greatly enjoyed SkyRider as I would ride it with my arms in the air embracing the airtime. I also found the transitions to be quite good. I'm glad SkyRider was relocated to Cavallino Matto in Italy after it closed in late 2014 at Canada's Wonderland as it was an amazing Togo stand-up coaster. I have yet to ride a B&M stand-up coaster but, from what I heard, the restraints and the "seats" are the major concerns and/or problems. I would greatly like to see the stand-up coaster make a return, as the last one built was in 1999 but in order for that to happen, B&M would need to redesign the restraints and make them vest-like as many have mentioned in previous posts.

[Physical]

The Togo ones were great going in a straight line but those transitions were bad. Did you ever ride Skyrider in Canada and experience that trick track?

 

I agree. I've only ridden one Togo standup (Shockwave at KD) but other than the drop and the loop, every element felt like it was actively trying to bludgeon me to death. Only thing I can think to compare it to, is Hurler in the back row at the same park.

[Pear]

I really enjoyed Riddler's Revenge, Vortex at Carowinds, and Skyrider. Those rides were really fun and not painful at all (Skyrider was a little rough but not too bad)

 

Green Lantern on the other hand was horrible.

[bill_s]

I don't know about "saving" B&M standups through conversion because the layouts are extremely mild and rely on a sense of vulnerability to be thrilling at all. Green lantern has a straight drop and still manages to have zero airtime in the back row, which makes no sense because airtime is both the most thrilling thing a standup can do and doesn't hurt the riders (although some always complain). The problem is the riders don't just feel more vulnerable, they actually are, it's not a "free" source of extra thrill. At best, a conversion will feel like some kind of looping family coaster. Could be good but is hardly ideal. I hear Rougarou isn't liked that much.

 

The real way to save B&M standups would be a new restraint design, but even then the layout deficiencies will remain.

 

No, I never rode Skyrider, I rode Shockwave ... often with my hands up. The "trick track" on Skyrider seems pretty minimal, although I saw one extreme complaint about even that, when I first watched the POV it just looked like it leaned one direction so when it goes back it improves the transition into the banked turn. I also rode 2 other Togos for which I found no real evidence to support the complaints. They were a little lacking in the fully 3D design area, example the exit from Shockwave's helix and many other details from their rides, which made Shockwave's "turn of doom" all the more amazing to me because I think it came out perfect. The president of Togo came all the way over here and pronounced it good! He was a little old Japanese man, I'm a, um, short old American man, the teenagers and 20-something complainers ought to be ashamed. And there are many coasters I will complain about being rough, but they have to actually hurt me.

[Samuel]

I don't know about "saving" B&M standups through conversion because the layouts are extremely mild and rely on a sense of vulnerability to be thrilling at all.

 

I hear Rougarou isn't liked that much.

 

The real way to save B&M standups would be a new restraint design, but even then the layout deficiencies will remain.

 

To your point, the old Paramount coasters leaned heavily on their gimmicks, so taking the gimmick away would make 1991 coasters look more exposed for being dated. Nevertheless, that gimmick is largely uncomfortable. There's a bottom line to the fact that I would skip Vortex and Mantis, but I at least look forward to riding their floorless reincarnations. Rougarou might be among the back half of casual rankings of CP's coasters, but that speaks to the strength of CP's lineup and not to Rougarou being a dud. I'm all for preserving classic coasters, but I appreciate the scrubbing being done to dated rides like stand-ups.

[Steely Dan]

Well, this is completely unexpected stuff out of left field, but screamscape has a rumor about a possible new B&M stand up in the works.

 

It's only been 2 decades since the last one, so why the hell not?

 

This seems WAY too freaking weird to be true.

 

http://www.screamscape.com/html/industry_news.htm#BM

[JJLehto]

Yeah, I'd say so. It's known that few are considered good, Riddler's Revenge, GA scorcher, maybe another one or two but the rest are widely believed to be meh if not poor. I personally have only ever enjoyed RR. Not a great track record. It was a neat concept and it certainly feels different, but since lots of sit down coasters are good, not like we need standers and when we start talking about improving the rides by eliminating the standing element, that should be a sign

 

Mostly: The fact no new one has been built in nearly 20 years should really say it all. I'd call it a failed concept.

[ScreaminNewEngland]

I'm pretty intrigued by the new train concept that's rumored. That would be a huge improvement on Green Lantern, a ride that wouldn't make sense to convert into a floorless. The same goes for the Riddler's Revenge.

[bill_s]

Just as a mental exercise, think of if Nitro was copied as a standup with slight adjustments. It wouldn't be better than now really, but it would be the best standup by far ever, with tons of airtime (which all the existing B&M standups completely lack). The way it takes you out of your seat, drops you back in to your seat just far enough to edge you around 90 degrees and then floats you again down the hill is brilliant as a hyper and would be even more brilliant standing. The final bunnies would also be nicely reminiscent of Togo. To take it over the top, add a vertical lift, and to perfect it, new restraints with no need to hold passengers inverted.

[Canobie Coaster]

Honestly, a new B&M stand-up would likely be more comfortable than the old ones since their newer designs aren't quite as forceful as the older ones. Maybe that will save my legs.

[joelwee]

I don't think stand-ups are a failed concept, it's just that most of the existing models are really bad. If done correctly, they are crowd-pleasers. Riddler's Revenge draws longer lines than Scream at SFMM. I find its OTSRs painful, so I would be all for the park investing in some new trains with vest restraints.

[CoasterRench]

I would like to see more stand-up coasters, I have only rode three different ones, but truly enjoyed them. I was a lot younger when King Cobra at Kings Island was open, but don't ever remember that one being painful at all. Mantis at Cedar Point and Chang at Kentucky Kingdom were the other two that I rode, pain was a little worse on these two, but I didn't consider them unbearable to ride and enjoyed the feeling of being able to stand up on a coaster. I have definitely rode other coasters that the pain was way worse, some that are still operating.

 

As my son gets older, and is starting to hit the height requirement's to ride rides, his mind was completely blown when he seen a picture of a stand up coaster. Hopefully soon he will be able to experience a stand up coaster.

[Hilltopper39]

I still want to see a B&M train that is tiered and has 2 rows of floorless seats in the front, 2 rows of sit down seats in the middle, and 2 rows of standup seat in the back. Six Flags could turn Green Lantern/Riddlers Revenge in to the whole Justice League on one train.

[Jason Maier]

I still want to see a B&M train that is tiered and has 2 rows of floorless seats in the front, 2 rows of sit down seats in the middle, and 2 rows of standup seat in the back. Six Flags could turn Green Lantern/Riddlers Revenge in to the whole Justice League on one train.

 

Would that idea be technically feasible?

 

I'd sure as hell give it a go

[TheCoasterKid211]

I still want to see a B&M train that is tiered and has 2 rows of floorless seats in the front, 2 rows of sit down seats in the middle, and 2 rows of standup seat in the back. Six Flags could turn Green Lantern/Riddlers Revenge in to the whole Justice League on one train.

 

Would that idea be technically feasible?

 

I'd sure as hell give it a go

I'm not an engineer, but I'd say this is definitely plausible. Although if people could choose the seats due to their fave hero, the capacity would be a nightmare.

[gerstlaueringvar]

If the manufacturer makes it right, stand up coaster can be amazing. Milky Way and Riddler's Revenge are both kickass rides.

[cookiex]

I still want to see a B&M train that is tiered and has 2 rows of floorless seats in the front, 2 rows of sit down seats in the middle, and 2 rows of standup seat in the back. Six Flags could turn Green Lantern/Riddlers Revenge in to the whole Justice League on one train.

 

Would that idea be technically feasible?

 

I'd sure as hell give it a go

There'd probably be major balancing issues since you're dealing with three car types with different weights on the same train, plus like CoasterKid said there's the capacity issue.

[TheoB]

I still want to see a B&M train that is tiered and has 2 rows of floorless seats in the front, 2 rows of sit down seats in the middle, and 2 rows of standup seat in the back. Six Flags could turn Green Lantern/Riddlers Revenge in to the whole Justice League on one train.

 

Would that idea be technically feasible?

 

I'd sure as hell give it a go

There'd probably be major balancing issues since you're dealing with three car types with different weights on the same train, plus like CoasterKid said there's the capacity issue.

 

I think so long as separate queues operate for each ride type it shouldn't be too bad. I think 2:3:3 would also be better, a 6 car train would be a nightmare. Or 3:3:3 but that would be very long.

[LiftThrill]

I still want to see a B&M train that is tiered and has 2 rows of floorless seats in the front, 2 rows of sit down seats in the middle, and 2 rows of standup seat in the back. Six Flags could turn Green Lantern/Riddlers Revenge in to the whole Justice League on one train.

 

Would that idea be technically feasible?

 

I'd sure as hell give it a go

 

The only problem I see is that the forces exhibited by each type of seat would be slightly different, so it would probably end up being somewhat tame to compensate

 

hey though, I'd give it go for each seat type, would still be a unique ride

Edited May 6, 2017 by LiftThrill

[southpuddle]

Three separate credits on one track! *ducks*