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Playing Batman Arkham games...


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Playing through the Batman Arkham games (I'm a few years behind, but loving them), I've been so impressed by how the developers have reinvigorated the franchise and its fictional universe. It makes me realize how much potential Six Flags has with these characters, and how far short the "park a Batmobile, slap a facade on a ride station, put character cutouts in line, theme a gift shop, and call it a day" formula is from realizing that potential.

 

When it comes to Batman stuff, I've been as mainstream GP as it gets: I recall the classic show, I've seen the movies, I remember the 90s cartoon, and I ride the rides. Well, thanks to these games I've never been so captivated by a superhero series, and I've spent time on Wikipedia just catching up on the comic book fiction. I've become a fan. I'm invested. And for the park, that should be money. I realize now just how far ahead the movies, games, comics, and overall franchise have moved past the Michael Keaton-era Gotham environments of the parks.

 

My favorite villain of the games is Scarecrow. Scarecrow is the alias of fictional doctor Jonathan Crane, who uses a toxin/gas to make people hallucinate manifestations of their fears and phobias. Six Flags should be squeezing everything this character has to offer for its haunts (use fog, and go from there). I know parks have scarecrows (Corn Stalkers and others), but this character is something else, with so much storytelling and depth to explore. They could make Scarecrow a Halloween brand and even the host of Fright Fest, but my bet is we'll get a piecemeal 3-D clown maze, butcher shop, and crypt, instead.

 

Do you think Six Flags is missing opportunities like this with its access to the DC comics universe? Does anyone else have ideas that would revitalize superhero areas or capitalize on different characters?

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You have to remember that even though Six Flags has a deal with DC Comics, that deal will NOT include any ancillary properties created by a third party with those characters. So in this case, they would have to license the use of Arkham Asylum from Warner Bros. Interactive in order to use those properties.

 

I know it sounds crazy and confusing, but trust me on this. Having worked in the video games business for many years, I've seen what happens when someone is interested in licensing a game property based a licensed animation property. They end up having to write TWO checks. And when you already have the rights to "Batman" on it's own, why write an additional check you don't need to?

 

--Robb

Edited by robbalvey
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As someone who isn't into comics, I wish Six Flags would drop all the DC comic names and invest that money elsewhere. If other parks can survive with normal names is it really worth it for Six Flags to keep spending money licensing some of their names? Does anyone know how much Six Flags pays for the licensing? And is it per ride or unlimited?

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I'd say six flags has licenseing to a lot more characters from batman than you think, that is assuming all of the cutouts in the lines are licensed. I can't remember all of them off the top of my head but some include Nightwing, Batgirl, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, The Joker, Two Face, Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, Lex Luther, The Penguin, The Riddler as well as a few others, which is enough when they have licenseing for a couple other DC hero's as well

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I'd say six flags has licenseing to a lot more characters from batman than you think, that is assuming all of the cutouts in the lines are licensed. I can't remember all of them off the top of my head but some include Nightwing, Batgirl, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, The Joker, Two Face, Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, Lex Luther, The Penguin, The Riddler as well as a few others, which is enough when they have licenseing for a couple other DC hero's as well

Ugh, you really didn't even comprehend what I said at all, did you? I'm not going to waste my time explaining it, because I know that I'm 100% right based on my experience working with video games, intellectual properties, theme parks, and comic book companies. and if all you're gonna try to do is "prove me wrong" or something stupid like that, I'm not going to bother responding.

Edited by robbalvey
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As someone who isn't into comics, I wish Six Flags would drop all the DC comic names and invest that money elsewhere.

 

Just curious, do you feel the same way about Hulk and other comic-themed attractions, or are your thoughts just in the case of Six Flags?

 

And thank you, Robb, for clearing that up. Rather than lifting characters developed from the games and paying to do so, can Six Flags simply go further with their in-house storytelling and create original narratives that'd help explain a back-story for a ride or haunt? Even something as basic as a coaster launch representing Superman getting riders out of harm's way works better than, "well, he's Batman and this is his ride."

 

In general, I still think Six Flags could do a lot more. Imagine an interactive in-park game or app-related challenge where guests solve daily Riddler mysteries (taking pics with your phone, and uploading answers to parks' social media pages to win prizes). Little things like this could be a win-win for the guests and the parks, and leverage the use of characters without having to go to Harry Potter-levels of immersion to be successful.

Edited by Samuel
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And thank you, Robb, for clearing that up. Rather than lifting characters developed from the games and paying to do so, can Six Flags simply go further with their in-house storytelling and create original narratives that'd help explain a back-story for a ride or haunt? Would this require DC's approval?

Absolutely anything you do with the characters at all will require DC's approval, but yes, they could create some sort of original storyline if they wanted to. Just look at the Justice League dark ride that went into Warner Bros. Movie World in Australia. Six Flags could do something like that if they wanted to, no question.

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I mean all of those characters I listed other than Batgirl, and Harley Quinn, have had or have rides themed to them at six flags parks so......

OMG, please stop talking if you don't know what you are talking about.

Edited by robbalvey
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In general, I still think Six Flags could do a lot more. Imagine an interactive in-park game or app-related challenge where guests solve daily Riddler mysteries (taking pics with your phone, and uploading answers to parks' social media pages to win prizes). Little things like this could be a win-win for the guests and the parks, and leverage the use of characters without having to go to Harry Potter-levels of immersion to be successful.

Another example. I'm SURE that when Six Flags decided to go with The Flash to sell the Flash Pass system, that was probably a huge ordeal to get approved through DC Comics. Not only would they be naming something after one of the characters that doesn't really tie into any story at all, other than being a clever name, they would also be using the character to market a premium priced item. Not sure if they perhaps even have to give a small percentage to DC comics for them to have been able to do that, but I wouldn't doubt it as well.

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I'd say six flags has licenseing to a lot more characters from batman than you think, that is assuming all of the cutouts in the lines are licensed. I can't remember all of them off the top of my head but some include Nightwing, Batgirl, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, The Joker, Two Face, Mr Freeze, Poison Ivy, Lex Luther, The Penguin, The Riddler as well as a few others, which is enough when they have licenseing for a couple other DC hero's as well

 

There's a difference between having the rights to comic book characters to make cut-outs out of, and having the rights to said characters in video game format. That's what Robb was saying.

 

I don't know the specifics of Six Flag's licensing agreement with Warner Bros./DC/whoever, but it's not as simple as saying "hey, we have the rights to a ride called Batman so let's go crazy with the character". The video game incarnation of Batman is a whole different beast, because THAT Batman is not the comic book version or Tim Burton version or whatever that Six Flags already has the rights to.

 

Look at it this way…Peter Pan can be considered public domain, it's a classic story and almost everyone knows the general idea of "Peter Pan". That's why Universal made a movie called "Peter Pan" about the original stories. However, just because Universal made that movie and has the rights to a character called Peter Pan DOES NOT mean that they can make an attraction based off of the animated Disney version, because they're two completely different things, even though they are technically the same character. TL, DR: Six Flags Batman =/= Arkham Asylum Batman.

 

Also, to whoever mentioned shirts, merchandising has very little to do with it. The rights to a theme park attraction are much, much harder to secure than the rights to merchandise. Hell, Wal Mart can sell Batman shirts without an extensive license, just like Universal can sell Star Wars stuff. Merchandising is different because everyone can benefit from it; if Six Flags signs a deal with DC/Warner Bros. to sell their merch, not only is said merchandise getting good exposure by being in Six Flags (benefitting the owner of the IP), it's also helping Six Flags because they obviously receive the profits. A ride, on the other hand, really only benefits the park…while more guests buying DC shirts means more money for DC AND Six Flags, more guests coming in to ride an Arkham City ride really only benefits Six Flags.

 

That's my (admittedly very basic) understanding of it. Obviously there's a lot more that goes into it than that, but to make a long story short, you can't just grab the rights to any IP you want. Different mediums call for different rights.

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Another example. I'm SURE that when Six Flags decided to go with The Flash to sell the Flash Pass system, that was probably a huge ordeal to get approved through DC Comics. Not only would they be naming something after one of the characters that doesn't really tie into any story at all, other than being a clever name, they would also be using the character to market a premium priced item. Not sure if they perhaps even have to give a small percentage to DC comics for them to have been able to do that, but I wouldn't doubt it as well.

 

If the premiums for licensing don't pass a cost-benefit analysis, they could always try their luck with the under-the-radar, off-brand Chinese park approach, by cooking up "Quick Guy Line Jumper," "Question Mark Man's Mystery Park Challenge," or "Pranker's Funhouse," along with associated merchandise you just know you've seen somewhere before!

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I don't know the specifics of Six Flag's licensing agreement with Warner Bros./DC/whoever, but it's not as simple as saying "hey, we have the rights to a ride called Batman so let's go crazy with the character". The video game incarnation of Batman is a whole different beast, because THAT Batman is not the comic book version or Tim Burton version or whatever that Six Flags already has the rights to.

This is pretty much correct. For example, let's say that OrlandoGuy came to me and wanted to create some fictional stories based on TPR and some of the members of the forum. (Yes, I know, terrible idea, but just roll with it...)

 

I said "sure", and for whatever reason of idiocracy, those books become a huge success. OrlandoGuy is happy, TPR is happy with the our licensing checks, etc.

 

Then a theme park says "Hey OrlandoGuy, we want to make a shooting dark ride out of our books so we can blow away some of the terrible TPR posters."

 

Now comes the tricky part. It's OrlandoGuy's books and stories that the park is interested in, but it's TPR's property to begin with. So then the deal needs to be made with BOTH people. And then it starts to get trickier and more confusing.

 

And that's more what it would be like if Six Flags wanted to use characters created by Warner Bros. interactive for their games.

 

Hope that makes sense.

 

--Robb

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Now comes the tricky part. It's OrlandoGuy's books and stories that the park is interested in, but it's TPR's property to begin with. So then the deal needs to be made with BOTH people. And then it starts to get trickier and more confusing.

 

And that's more what it would be like if Six Flags wanted to use characters created by Warner Bros. interactive for their games.

 

I'd be interested to find out how difficult it was to arrange the license when Lethal Weapon was re-themed to Arkham Asylum. Movie World is definitely a different kind of park to Six Flags though, and they did more than just slap a new name on the ride.

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As someone who isn't into comics, I wish Six Flags would drop all the DC comic names and invest that money elsewhere.

 

Just curious, do you feel the same way about Hulk and other comic-themed attractions, or are your thoughts just in the case of Six Flags?

No, just Six Flags. Universal is getting the licensing to seriously theme the ride well, which I like. They aren't painting a coaster red and blue and calling it Superman. If Six Flags made their coasters like Superman in Australia I would be ecstatic.

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For example, let's say that OrlandoGuy came to me and wanted to create some fictional stories based on TPR and some of the members of the forum. (Yes, I know, terrible idea, but just roll with it...)

 

I don't know Robb, I'm thinking we can get Sally to make this ride, maybe put it in obscure Chinese parks. I'm envisioning something like the dark rides where you shoot Santa...

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