CoasterLab

[Nitro1118]

I still don't buy any of it, and I still don't trust him as far as I could throw him. My gut tells me something, and it's not usually wrong.

 

His designs are custom. That's all he is...a designer who sells his ideas to the manufacturer. Golden Horse is shady, as Camiel said himself, but that doesn't make him shady. He's a young kid who simply found his big break in the industry.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Copy is copy, there's no excuse. I'm with Intamin on this. They put so much effort to pack a huge amount of fun into a tiny footprint and hire Stengel to calculate it but Mack just...took it.

 

Well even Sandor Kernacs of Intamin said it's all about what the parks want. So if the parks want a clone of a ride that was designed by another manufacturer, why should the manufacturer the park is working with fore go building it and lose out on a multi-million dollar project?? And in the case of Intamin, you could even say they copied Anton Schwarzkopf if you really pay attention to modern intamin coasters there are a lot of similarities there. I don't think any of the modern day manufacturers of steel coasters are THAT original (save a few of Intamin's designs and B&M's inverted), you gotta go back to Arrow and Anton of the 70's for the true originality.

He is the president of Intarides, of course he cannot say something negative about other manufacturers. This industry is small that companies have to maintain a fairly good relationship with one another. Just use common sense, if you are an engineer, you put a huge amount of effort to make the best ride of that size you can possibly make, you received a huge success that at least 80% of US coaster enthusiasts dreamed about your product coming to US one day. Shockingly, another successful manufacturer who can clearly design a great layout copied your design just because they want money. How would you feel?

 

Plus, Intamin was representing Schwarzkopf in the overseas market, Intamin work with Schwarzkopf very very closely and Werner Stengel is doing calculations for possibly every Intamin coaster. Old school B&M transitions are snappy jut like the Intamin coasters, most Gerstlauer coaster, etc. Did Intamin and Gerstlauer knock-off B&M? Absolutely not. Did Vekoma knock-off Arrow's designs? Absolutely not. Did Mack copy Intamin's Mega-Lite? Definitely. Did Chance copy Mega-Lite? No.

 

Now please go back to CoasterLab.

[Superbatboy]

He is the president of Intarides, of course he cannot say something negative about other manufacturers. This industry is small that companies have to maintain a fairly good relationship with one another. Just use common sense,

 

Well the in the point of reference I was making he wasn't even prompted to talk about other manufacturers. He was simply asked how they come up with concepts for new rides. Watch the IAAPA 2012 interview Robb did with him

 

 

if you are an engineer, you put a huge amount of effort to make the best ride of that size you can possibly make, you received a huge success that at least 80% of US coaster enthusiasts dreamed about your product coming to US one day. Shockingly, another successful manufacturer who can clearly design a great layout copied your design just because they want money. How would you feel?

 

Like I said previously, business is business these guys are out there to make money not make abstract art pieces.

 

Did Intamin and Gerstlauer knock-off B&M? Absolutely not. Did Vekoma knock-off Arrow's designs? Absolutely not. Did Mack copy Intamin's Mega-Lite? Definitely. Did Chance copy Mega-Lite? No.

 

We can agree to disagree here, cause I've already stated my point no need for redundancy

 

Now please go back to CoasterLab

 

You mean participate in berating this young kid who is highly skilled and living his dream? Why would I do that? I say more power to him, good night.

[JonnyRCT3]

I still don't buy any of it, and I still don't trust him as far as I could throw him. My gut tells me something, and it's not usually wrong.

 

His designs are custom. That's all he is...a designer who sells his ideas to the manufacturer. Golden Horse is shady, as Camiel said himself, but that doesn't make him shady. He's a young kid who simply found his big break in the industry.

 

Ah, such an easy job.

[Midgetman82]

I really do not understand why people are hating on Camiel so much. How many times do you get a chance to actually design a coaster which will actually be built. I guess most people are just jealous

 

I don't know about jealousy, to be honest my skepticism is the lack of any information regarding his credentials on his website...

 

I second this. I think we've yet to build any trust on him, and are only going off of gut instinct for now. My hope is that Golden Horse is only trying to turn its company around starting with replacing some of their previous designers (and maybe not cut corners anywhere), but I know less on this subject than most of you (I assume) and can't side with anyone until I hear more about it. To Camiel, I wish the best to him and his reputation for his works with Golden Horse.

 

As for stealing or making variations from other companies' designs, "Haven't we" "seen things" "like this" "done before?" Many times, it's just companies offering variations/alternatives for other parks to use; especially if it's cheaper.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Now please go back to CoasterLab

 

You mean participate in berating this young kid who is highly skilled and living his dream? Why would I do that? I say more power to him, good night.

I only said that because this thread is about CoasterLab. I support Camiel to chase his dream, as in my previous posts, I'm just saying that Golden Horse is not a good place for his talent. I love his designs and they all look very nice. Just saying that there's a difference between Alpina Blitz-MegaLite similarity and S:UF clone-Eyeloop similarity.

[IronWolfman]

Did Vekoma knock-off Arrow's designs? Absolutely not.

 

I don't know about that....

 

http://rcdb.com/81.htm (1980)

 

http://rcdb.com/897.htm# (1981)

 

Unless Vekoma was representing Arrow in Europe, but then again why wouldn't it say that Python was Arrow designed and Vekoma built? I guess that this is only one example though.

[hyyyper]

I'm not totally sure about this but I believe Vekoma started out as the European fabricator for Arrow. Once they knew how to build tracks, they basically flipped off Arrow and continued on for themselves. Kind of the same what Giovanola did for Intamin/B&M, only a bit more succesfull.

[LiMiT]

Let's not forget B&M's family inverted coaster.

 

Camiel, I look forward to seeing more of your designs. It seems that Golden Horse really wants to steal that record. With all the specifications they gave you, I'm glad you could come up with a really good design. Very creative with the limited space. I also like the opposite-facing trains on the other design. It reminds me of the carnival ride FireBall on steroids!

[KingRCT3]

That said, Patrice Gélis designed the layout, but Stengel came after to calculate that layout.

Mack did everything on their own for Alpina Blitz, Stengel didn't work with Mack on this project.

 

You mean you know how the project was carried out more than the park owners themselves?

Edited July 1, 2014 by KingRCT3

[gerstlaueringvar]

That said, Patrice Gélis designed the layout, but Stengel came after to calculate that layout.

Mack did everything on their own for Alpina Blitz, Stengel didn't work with Mack on this project.

 

You mean you know how tproject was carried out more than the park owners themselves?

I asked Mack about this project at IAAPA, sorry for the misleading info, I mean Werner Stengel didn't work on the calculation, Mack did it by themselves. The layout is what the park asked for.

[scbt]

Bringing this thread back from the dead!

 

I was looking around to see if anything ever happened with the 16 inversion coaster, although I didn't see anything beyond the renderings, which now seem to have disappeared.

 

What I did stumble across is that CoasterLab actually did have a ride that he designed open. There was a TPR thread about it a while back, but it really didn't gather much attention nor did anyone comment on it being designed by Camiel.

 

Here's the POV:

[fbvideonew]

[/fbvideonew]

 

I also found a 30 minute documentary about it, although I have no clue what's being said since I don't speak german.

[Rill'o'beily]

 

As for stealing or making variations from other companies' designs, "Haven't we" "seen things" "like this" "done before?" Many times, it's just companies offering variations/alternatives for other parks to use; especially if it's cheaper.

 

Really old post i'm replying to, but judging by the order i'm guessing you're implying that Fabbri ripped off KMG with the booster design, while KMG kinda ripped off Fabbri.