Hydra

[RCoasterny]

My aunt, who is a big B&M fan, hated Hydra. She said it rattled a lot and actually preferred Talon. Raptor is her #1 favorite B&M to date, and even liked Medusa which is located across the state line. She even liked the JoJo roll, but wasn't too fond for the rest of the ride. If the rattling wasn't there, she would have a different opinion.

[Sir Clinksalot]

I had heard it was bad, but I wanted to keep an open mind about the ride. I didn't think any ride could be less forceful than Silver Bullet, but I was wrong.

 

The ride was fun, but it just didn't do anything for me. It wasn't anything we needed to ride again.

 

I understand that CF wanted to build a "Family" ride with SB and Hydra, but sorry, a ride with a 54" height requirement doesn't qualify.

[Real]

I think its got good forces and some unique twists producing some interesting and unique rotational forces as well. I felt plenty of G's (not in the way of anything like BTR) but enough to know Im pulling about 3 or so.

 

It has some very unique spots to it and the best part of the ride IMO is the transitions in acceleration. Because the ride is fairly small the train acceleration from front to back is quite large. That "whipped" feeling you get from the back of a train is greatly magnified here because of the elements being smaller with smaller transitions. You really get some sudden acceleration on alot of the elements.

 

It has the best actual "Zero G Roll" Ive ever been on or seen. Im quite sure its because of the geometry used on it because it just looks different than all other zero g's so Im pretty sure its the only one like this, aside from maybe Silver Bullet. But you absolutly float through the entire thing, its heavenly.

 

I personally think some people maybe liked it but had to say it sucked so as to not contradict themselves from earlier. Some just genuinly dont like it and others have changed their minds.

Edited September 30, 2005 by Real

[peteb]

Maybe B&M is becoming a victim of their own success; their coasters have become so familiar that it's hard to get excited about newer versions of the the same old thing. They seem to understand the dynamics of their rides so well, maybe they need to go and engineer some forces back in to their rides. It's the inverse Arrow Dynamics problem; Arrow kept building bigger versions of the same old ride that kept getting rougher until everyone had enough. You'd hate to see B&M fall out of favor because their rides are too smooth and everyone's yawning! (I don't think this will happen, they're too good a company, I doubt they're sitting back with nothing new on the drawing board)

What is the rattling being refered to on the floorless coasters? Is it an audible rattle or a track shuffle type of rattle? I've been on Medusa 20+ times and it's pretty smooth and quiet, with a tiny bit of track shuffle which varies with temperature/position on the train.

[Hercules]

My aunt, who is a big B&M fan, hated Hydra. She said it rattled a lot and actually preferred Talon. Raptor is her #1 favorite B&M to date, and even liked Medusa which is located across the state line. She even liked the JoJo roll, but wasn't too fond for the rest of the ride. If the rattling wasn't there, she would have a different opinion.

 

I prefer Talon by a lot. There is nothing wrong with that. I love Talon. It is the best ride in the park in my opinion. It would have been hard for Hydra to top it.

[Tomizzle For Rizzle]

Red Devil still had the first inversion before the lift hill damn it! So what if the park is not open anymore!

[Hercules]

Maybe B&M is becoming a victim of their own success; their coasters have become so familiar that it's hard to get excited about newer versions of the the same old thing. They seem to understand the dynamics of their rides so well, maybe they need to go and engineer some forces back in to their rides. It's the inverse Arrow Dynamics problem; Arrow kept building bigger versions of the same old ride that kept getting rougher until everyone had enough. You'd hate to see B&M fall out of favor because their rides are too smooth and everyone's yawning! (I don't think this will happen, they're too good a company, I doubt they're sitting back with nothing new on the drawing board)

What is the rattling being refered to on the floorless coasters? Is it an audible rattle or a track shuffle type of rattle? I've been on Medusa 20+ times and it's pretty smooth and quiet, with a tiny bit of track shuffle which varies with temperature/position on the train.

 

That is the thing though, this is what Dorney wanted. They asked for it and B&M gave it to them. If B&M wants to build a coaster with insane forces and a little bit of umph to it, they still can and would.

 

It seems that everyone overlooks some things and basically takes B&M for granted. We are so used to what they do that the amazing things that they do is seem as normal. Hydra is a mechanical marvel and a piece of B&M genius. The way that they used the terrain and designed that coaster is brilliant, but people view it as oldhat. They make things that could potentially be difficult look way too easy.

[peteb]

I agree. That's probably what's changed most in coaster design and B&M is better at it than anyone; they give the parks exactly what they want. They guarantee the smoothness of their rides because they can. I'm sure Arrow never intended their coasters to be headbangers, they just didn't engineer their rides to the same level as B&M. Most people have no idea what it takes to engineer and fabricate these rides so it's easy to take B&M's work for granted.

[verticalzero]

I've never been on Hydra or a floorless coaster as there is none in the UK.

 

The ride does look stunning and its a shame if the ride is rough, which is suprising as B&M are normaly silky smooth.

 

"Collosus" at Thorpe Park (UK) is rough and slows down quite badly just before the Cobra Roll. Some extra TLC is needed to get this coaster back on top form.

[Hercules]

I think you kind of misunderstood. The ride isn't really rough, it just has a little rattle to it. Believe me, it is smooth compared to most, just not as smooth as what some have experienced on a B&M.

[robbalvey]

I personally "get" the ride. That is it, it is exactly what the park wanted. This is what Cedar Fair and Dorney wanted when they went to B&M, and that is what they got.

I hear this a lot when discussing rides that, for the most part seem 'under whelming' and I wonder to myself, "Is this just an excuse to justify it?"

 

Because think about that statement "This is exactly what the park wanted."

 

And then ask yourself....well, IS IT what they wanted?

 

Did the park really WANT a coaster that won't appear in any national or international top ten lists?

 

Did the park really WANT a coaster that people come away from saying "I don't need to ride that again?"

 

Did the park really WANT a coaster that lacks any real hype?

 

Did the park really WANT a coaster that may not get media attention from outlets like the Discovery Channel shows?

 

Granted there IS something to be said about building a ride that isn't too intimidating and would work perfect for a general audience, but on the flip side, that type of ride isn't going to give your park any additional recognition.

 

When you want a ride like that, you build a family coaster, a mine train, etc. But Hydra was billed as a major, multi-million dollar thrill machine, yet people tell me it's tame enough for kids and grand-parents to ride together.

 

Granted if that's what they got out of it, it's not a terrible thing, but is that really what they WANTED going into it?

 

It's kind like us at work going into an initial design meeting for a new video game saying "We want to make a new game that will get a 70% rating and will have a lack-luster response!"

 

Or is it more a reality that what Hydra turned out to be isn't exactly what they WANTED, but the end result wasn't really that bad either?

 

--Robb "I can't imagine a park going into a project spending millions of dollars and actually WANTING an 'average' ride." Alvey

[ebl]

What's annoying me is this whole "forceless" thing. Who wants to ride a coaster that causes you to black out or put extreme forces on your body? Some forces, sure, otherwise it would be pretty boring. But who needs to be subjected to such intense forces that make you uncomfortable?

 

I enjoy Silver Bullet at Knott's. It doesn't have the intense positive G forces that some rides have, and it actually has some airtime! I'd probably enjoy Hydra just fine.

 

Eric

[robbalvey]

I don't think the term "forceless" really implies what it means. I know I when I use the term "forceless" I usually mean "not very exciting" as oppposed to "I didn't black out over and over again."

 

Silver Bullet, Air and Talon are all good examples. There really is nothing "wrong" with these rides. They are fun, yet none of them give me that "Wow! I gotta ride that again!" feeling that coasters like Superman: ROS, Expedition GeForce, and even something like Montezooma's Revenge does.

 

Actually Monty is a GREAT example. Here you have a 1978 coaster versus a 2005 coaster in the same park. One of them I have been riding since I was 8 years old and it has NEVER gotten any less exiting to me. When that train hits the breaks, your breath is taken away and "WOW!" it's great.

 

Silver Bullet on the other hand seems like it's going to barely make it up to the brake run and when it hits it I just think "hmmm....ok....next ride!"

 

So, perhaps "forceless" is the wrong term. Because I agree with you Eric, coasters that make you 'black out' don't get a lot of re-riders, but coasters with a high "WOW FACTOR" do!

 

Does that make more sense?

 

--Robb "Who doesn't think a lot of the more recent B&Ms are high on the WOW factor!" Alvey

[ParkTrips]

I don't think the park got exactly what they want, but I also don't think they were looking for an all-out barrage of intensity. I think they were looking for a tamed down ride, some uniqueness, a smooth coaster that is re-rideable to keep the patronage up, along with a quiet ride

 

I however did enjoy Talon as I found it to have some good intensity and I loved the ground effects. Though not quite Batman or Top Gun in the intensity, it was still much much better than Great Bear and Raptor for me. But that's for another thread.

[ebl]

^^ Maybe "WOW factor" is a better term.

 

I guess I'm just more easily pleased than a lot of people. With few exceptions, I usually like a ride, old or new. And I agree with you, Robb, about Montezooma's Revenge. Even though its launch pales to something like Xcelerator, it's still a great ride 27 years after I first rode it.

 

Eric

[peteb]

If recent B&M's seem to be lacking, is it because the parks are asking for safe bet coasters? Has there been a change in design philosophy at B&M, or are the rides not performing as anticipated. I think only Walter and Claude could answer this.

[Hercules]

I totally unterstand what you are saying Robb, and I agree with you to an extent. However, I how to go with my buddy Joe in saying that it is bascially what they were looking for in terms of the ride itself, but the ride quality may be the thing that was slightly disappointing.

 

At any rate, they WANTED a 9-11% increase in attendance, and that is what they got. Nothing wrong with that at all

[robbalvey]

^ Nope, not at all!

 

-- Robb "Just playing devil's advocate" Alvey

[Erik Johnson]

Isn't SheiKra a recent B&M coaster? I thought it was a WOW coaster myself. But again it could be because heights always make me a little nervous.

[Sir Clinksalot]

I think Eric hit it right on the head. It's the WOW factor more than anything.

 

There are certainly coasters that are forceful that I don't need to ride more than once. Batman: TR comes to mind. I'm not sure I could ride that more than once or twice in a day.

 

But there are other coasters like Xcelerator that I think are forceful that I can, and have, sat on for 20 straight rides with no problem.

 

Then there are rides like Hydra that don't have that "WoW" factor and are forceless.

 

Then there are rides like Phoenix that I wouldn't call forcefull but it has that "WoW" factor that makes you get right back in line.

 

I don't think my favorite B&M's are necessarily because they are forceful, they are just good rides.

 

I don't think anybody ever said that Hydra was a bad ride. I don't think it's bad. It just didn't do anything for me. Kind of like Scream when it opened. It really didn't do anything for me, but I kind of like it now.

[coasterguy618]

I actually liked Hydra also. I dont know why people think it is so bad. I mean it's not a top ten coaster but its fun. The coolest part was the jojo roll.

[Hercules]

I think that is a lot of people's biggest point there. The Jojo roll is the best part. They think it is pretty sad that the best part of the ride is before it even really starts.

 

I don't hate the ride personally, I just don't think it is that great. I think I said that already though

[robbalvey]

I dont know why people think it is so bad.

Who said it was bad?

 

--Robb "People said it didn't blow them away, but I don't think anyone said it was bad." Alvey

[Hercules]

Good point. Nobody did say that it was bad. I think that is just reading really far into it. I think the best way of describing it was said tonight. I got off the ride and some guy said "That one didn't blow me away." He didn't say that it was a bad ride but just said that it wasn't fantastic.

[imbordisux]

B&M is my favorite steelie-company, with "Batman: The Ride" being my favorite invert (because of the awesome positive-Gs) - I just thought it was really cool that they tried to do something different in having people falling out of the seats while upside-down.

 

I know that "Hydra" is classified as a floorless because of the trains, but I really think they should refer to it, as well as any future "slow, forceless" looping coasters, as "Hang-Time" coasters.