robbalvey Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Has there ever been an accident that would have been prevented with shin bars? Why are they popping up everywhere? The way the lap bars is designed, they need the shin bar in order to keep the guests in the seat. It's because they keep the body "bent" the correct way, and makes it impossible to "slip out". Without them the safety of the passengers could not be guaranteed. It's necessary because of the more extreme things the rides are doing nowadays. For an example the old Schwarzkopf loopers don't need shin bars, because the only real place they could throw you out would be the loop, but during those you are pressed down against the seats. This is exactly right. We also have to remember as "enthusiasts" we know how to ride coasters and none of us probably need those extra layers of protection. Add in the unknown factor of your regular park guests and that invites in a whole new way of having to think about what a guest might try to do if they freak out on a ride, aren't used to the forces a ride produces, or the random stupid things people try to do. (Sad, but true) If trains and restraints were designed for the people who post in this forum, they would look a lot different! Edited April 11, 2014 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 If trains and restraints were designed for the people who post in this forum, they would look a lot different! Buzz bar!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapesLie Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 ^ On Outlaw Run. . . Uhhh no thank you! You'd go flying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Sabo Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I can imagine the views on Wildfire are going to be amazing!! Especially coming off that lift into the turnaround before the drop. If the park is going to keep as many trees as possible, this will provide some good surroundings for the ride. Side note: Some people already complaining. I was reading a post on another site where the reader was 'complaining' about the angle of the drop and 'it sucks it isn't 90'" Are you freaking kidding me? The angle of the first drop is only a difference of 7'....you really going to point that out? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Side note: Some people already complaining. I was reading a post on another site where the reader was 'complaining' about the angle of the drop and 'it sucks it isn't 90'" Are you freaking kidding me? The angle of the first drop is only a difference of 7'....you really going to point that out? lol Those people are hoping for a first drop like Takabisha or the classic El Loco model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fooz Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I do wonder why more coasters don't do 90* drops. You'd think that would be the easiest selling point to communicate to an audience. "200 feet at a staggering 85 degrees!" doesn't seem like it would have the appeal of "200 feet straight down!". Not complaining, but seeing so many ~85* drops has me wondering. Obviously no freefall with starting horizontal momentum would naturally reach 90*, but getting there wouldn't put much force on the rider or train. It seems like there are more beyond vertical drops that vertical ones, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBrylczyk Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 ...or the random stupid things people try to do. (Sad, but true) We're just interfering with Darwinism, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiMiT Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 ^I like that idea. Weed out the people who shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. Also, in a reply to the 90 degree drop idea, the negative forces on wooden coasters are already ridiculous enough at 83 degrees and 85 degrees and such, so why make it vertical when an almost-vertical drop is just as effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 The steepness of a drop gets to a point of ridiculousness. There's a reason why every single coaster (to my knowledge) with a vertical or beyond vertical drop has really short trains. Negative forces on coasters like Skyrush are already pretty fierce in the back rows. If you go much steeper with trains that are that long it could get really painful. You would have to make sure that the beyond-vertical drop is really drawn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glouthan Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I don't understand the gimmick of a steep drop. To me, they all feel the same. Can we all feel much difference between an 85 degree drop and a 90 degree drop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fooz Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 ^I like that idea. Weed out the people who shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. Also, in a reply to the 90 degree drop idea, the negative forces on wooden coasters are already ridiculous enough at 83 degrees and 85 degrees and such, so why make it vertical when an almost-vertical drop is just as effective? For the marketing potential, I mean. GP often care about gimmicks/sound bites I think, maybe more than the real quality of some rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AusCoasterFan Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 ^I like that idea. Weed out the people who shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. Also, in a reply to the 90 degree drop idea, the negative forces on wooden coasters are already ridiculous enough at 83 degrees and 85 degrees and such, so why make it vertical when an almost-vertical drop is just as effective? For the marketing potential, I mean. GP often care about gimmicks/sound bites I think, maybe more than the real quality of some rides. That's true, but the point about the negative forces is exactly right - especially in the back car. Look at all the steepest coasters in the world. They all have 1,2 or 3 (max) car trains. In the back seat, of a train with 6 cars, you would virtually be catapulted from the ride! Either that or have trims controlling the speed of the train down the first hill - but do we really want that on Wildfire!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 The steepness of a drop gets to a point of ridiculousness. There's a reason why every single coaster (to my knowledge) with a vertical or beyond vertical drop has really short trains. Negative forces on coasters like Skyrush are already pretty fierce in the back rows. If you go much steeper with trains that are that long it could get really painful. You would have to make sure that the beyond-vertical drop is really drawn out. I've noticed that to. B&M Dive coasters have brakes before the holding brake to limit the trains speed and to also limit forces. I've also noticed that the vertical angle isn't reached until about 10 meters down from the holding brake. So the vertical section is only about 1/4 of the drop. cache.rcdb.com/3ds0u5302000ijmi220800.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 The sheer scare factor, especially now that there are floorless / frontless trains, is part of the reason that they hold you at the top of B&M dive coasters (using a chain, not a brake mind you). The "don't look down" thing was a huge selling point for Oblivion. I would bet that two-car dive coasters could do a quick vertical drop without a holding section. Dive coasters also lose a whole lot of speed throughout their courses because the trains create a lot of drag. In the back seat, of a train with 6 cars, you would virtually be catapulted from the ride! Either that or have trims controlling the speed of the train down the first hill - but do we really want that on Wildfire!? I think that this is the reason why all these cool new Rocky Mountain Construction coasters have six cars in their trains as opposed to seven or eight. But, at the same time, Intamin is able to design drops that are almost as steep for their wooden coasters and use trains that are the equivalent to nine cars (6 cars, 3 rows -> 9 cars, 2 rows). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDG Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 It is possible to have a vertical drop with a long train though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garet Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 It is possible to have a vertical drop with a long train though... But that one comes to a stand-still and tilts then drops.... as opposed to a chain lift into a drop where the back car would have a lot of speed going into the drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking86 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 ^I like that idea. Weed out the people who shouldn't be allowed to reproduce. Also, in a reply to the 90 degree drop idea, the negative forces on wooden coasters are already ridiculous enough at 83 degrees and 85 degrees and such, so why make it vertical when an almost-vertical drop is just as effective? For the marketing potential, I mean. GP often care about gimmicks/sound bites I think, maybe more than the real quality of some rides. That's true, but the point about the negative forces is exactly right - especially in the back car. Look at all the steepest coasters in the world. They all have 1,2 or 3 (max) car trains. In the back seat, of a train with 6 cars, you would virtually be catapulted from the ride! Either that or have trims controlling the speed of the train down the first hill - but do we really want that on Wildfire!? Storm Runner has a 90 degree drop with a 5-car train. Obviously still a bit on the short side, but it shows that it is still possible to do a vertical drop with an okay-capacity train. I must say I have wondered why this kind of drop has not been seen on a traditional lift rollercoaster as it would be a huge selling point towards the GP. But I guess capacity does also play an important part. As for Wildfire I dont care because its going to be freakin amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcjp Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 This ride looks amazing! And I'm sure it will reach the top wooden rides quickly. I know I'm late but I was out for the week with no internet access and now I'm back and see this About the steepness discussion, given that skyrush manages an 85 degrees drop with eight cars, I'm sure a ride about 250-300 feet could do a vertical one. It would still provide insane negatives, but would be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted April 12, 2014 Author Share Posted April 12, 2014 I don't know why we are having some long discussion about the length of train needed to do a 90 degree drop. Look guys, if it was important to someone, I'm SURE they would figure out a way to do it and this discussion would be a moot point. How many of us debated inversions on wood coasters for YEARS and look at where we are at now. Just because something hasn't happened yet, don't mean it can't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragsterfan420 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 From the people I've shown, they think this rides a farce or going to have huge problems with it. Lol. Mostly a GP mindset though and they don't know that rides like this have already been built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkTums Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I would be all for a RMC/Vekoma Tilt Coaster Mashup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolex Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 How many of us debated inversions on wood coasters for YEARS and look at where we are at now. Just because something hasn't happened yet, don't mean it can't happen. WORD ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapesLie Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I would be all for a RMC/Vekoma Tilt Coaster Mashup. Agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster1227 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) I would be all for a RMC/Vekoma Tilt Coaster Mashup. That right there is a contraption worthy of the name "Laser Snake Horse on Fire!" Edited April 12, 2014 by jedimaster1227 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
televisedconfession Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 ^yesssssssssssssssssssssssss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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