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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 639: Montezooma's Revenge major renovations announced!

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don't get your hopes up. There "might" be footers in the ground, but it will be a miracle if there are. It will probably be a couple of weeks at least before we start to see some do anything more then tear out the rock formations within the area.

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When they put up Xcelerator, they laid all the track on the ground across the street on La Palma blvd. It was right behind the Claim Jumper on the corner of Beach and La Palma. I used to drive up La Palma to work every morning and you would see them loading pieces onto trucks to bring into the park that day.

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Ceder Fair may be taking care of some of the "recentley aquired valued parks" however, Great America (formally PGA) hasn't gotten crap for new. All we know is "it's sure to make waves" great, since when is a wavepool a thrill attraction?? I live 45 min. from the beach! How much better can it get. I forsee them (ceder Fair) pumping a considerable amount of effort into their newly aquired, high profile parks, and let the rest [of their parks] at "status quo". It kinda reminds me of the "Six Flags Era", lets purchase hella parks, and allow ourselfs to go bankrupt 10 years later!

I'll tell ya', I can't wait...

 

Dan "so much for my local park" Strickland

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Sweet!

 

Ceder Fair may be taking care of some of the "recentley aquired valued parks" however, Great America (formally PGA) hasn't gotten crap for new. All we know is "it's sure to make waves" great, since when is a wavepool a thrill attraction?? I live 45 min. from the beach! How much better can it get. I forsee them (ceder Fair) pumping a considerable amount of effort into their newly aquired, high profile parks, and let the rest [of their parks] at "status quo". It kinda reminds me of the "Six Flags Era", lets purchase hella parks, and allow ourselfs to go bankrupt 10 years later!

I'll tell ya', I can't wait...

 

I tell everyone that, and no one belives me.

 

--Jay

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When they put up Xcelerator, they laid all the track on the ground across the street on La Palma blvd. It was right behind the Claim Jumper on the corner of Beach and La Palma. I used to drive up La Palma to work every morning and you would see them loading pieces onto trucks to bring into the park that day.

 

Pretty sure the track was out in the overflow lot behind Knott's...

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Sweet!

 

Ceder Fair may be taking care of some of the "recentley aquired valued parks" however, Great America (formally PGA) hasn't gotten crap for new. All we know is "it's sure to make waves" great, since when is a wavepool a thrill attraction?? I live 45 min. from the beach! How much better can it get. I forsee them (ceder Fair) pumping a considerable amount of effort into their newly aquired, high profile parks, and let the rest [of their parks] at "status quo". It kinda reminds me of the "Six Flags Era", lets purchase hella parks, and allow ourselfs to go bankrupt 10 years later!

I'll tell ya', I can't wait...

 

I tell everyone that, and no one belives me.

 

--Jay

 

Hummm...I wonder why they dont???

 

A wave pool isn't the "next best thing ever" but its a serious draw for a park trying to keep people in the gates. Personally im more prone to stay longer and visit often to a place that has a water park, water slides, thrill rides, roller coasters, and family attractions vs just a beach with untreated water and dirt. And how on EARTH can this remind anyone of six flags! The 5 paramount parks were doing good if not better than the other cedar fair parks so how can that be.

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^I ment along the lines of Cedar Fair turning into Six Flags.

 

--Jay

 

Cedar Fair is far from turning into Six Flags. First of all, they will not just blindly throw a bunch of coasters into their parks and neglect every other aspect of the park. The slow growth occuring at Worlds of Fun, Michigan's Adventure, and Valleyfair, show just how differently this company operates. They concentrate on park operations, and infastructure, then add rides as they see fit to help the park grow. Michigan's Adventure experience an 18% attendence jump in 2005, and its attendence is also improving in 2006. Cedar Fair added two rides in that time (Grand Rapids and Funnel of Fear), neither are coasters, but the park continues to grow. As shown by their additions to Paramount Parks in 2007 (new shows, coasters resteraunt, waterpark expansions), Cedar Fair will not go the Six Flags route and add as many coasters as possible until they bury themselves in debt.

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Knotts has the potential to be something nice and uniqe. It would be quite an investment, grant it. But if they could turn it into something more then just a park for locals, they have this whole other market that could spill into thier lap. Maybe making the switch towards more of a "destination" or more correctly put "side trip" from Disneyland would be a better way to play the market? Of course Cedar Fair doesn't exactly have the correct management skills nor the vision to turn Knotts into such a resort. To be honest, I think its the current management's "lack of vision" that is choking the park's progress and mark within the industry.

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But if they could turn it into something more then just a park for locals, they have this whole other market that could spill into thier lap. Maybe making the switch towards more of a "destination" or more correctly put "side trip" from Disneyland would be a better way to play the market? Of course Cedar Fair doesn't exactly have the correct management skills nor the vision to turn Knotts into such a resort. To be honest, I think its the current management's "lack of vision" that is choking the park's progress and mark within the industry.

 

Don't know if you're familiar with Knott's, but it is already a resort. Nothing on the scale of Disney mostly due firstly to its 10 mile proximity to the Disneyland Resort. Secondly, the park has no immediate room to expand. It's "boxed" in from all four major streets that surround it. Knott's fits its niche just fine.

 

But no matter how much effort or money Cedar Fair pours into Knott's to make it "such a resort," it will never be able to top Disney. Knott's and Cedar Point are the only parks under Cedar Fair Entertainment Company's wings that are considered "Resorts." So Cedar Fair does have the vision and proper management skills to do what you say they couldn't do. Because they already did it. More than 5 years ago, to be exact. They turned a single venue income (just the amusement park) and expanded it to include revenue from a new park and hotel. There's no surprise why Knott's is Cedar Fair's second highest revenue source (2005 revenue pull: $186 million), and that's including the former Paramount Parks.

 

Knott's Berry Farm officially became a "coined" multiple-day destination resort in '99/'00 when Cedar Fair bought the hotel adjacent to the park and began operating it as their own on-site accomodations while at the same time opened the adjacent water park. So you have the Knott's Berry Farm Resort Hotel, Knott's Berry Farm Theme Park, and Knott's Soak City USA operating under one title.

 

Prior to 1999, Knott's business orientation catered strictly to the local one-day visit market and the Disney stragglers that want to spend that last day doing something else.

 

http://www.themeparkbrochures.net/2006/kbfresort2006.html

http://www.knottshotel.com/

http://www.knotts.com/camplace/index.shtml

 

If you will, Knott's is very much like a smaller-scale Cedar Point Resort in every way. A separate pay water park, a free monumental attraction (Independence Hall), separate pay amusement park, outside-park shopping district and dining area and a hotel --- all practically adjacent to each other.

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^^ I'm not sure because I don't have any real demographics, but I'm certain most people who occupy the hotel aren't there to visit knotts. But its not about the room, its about perfecting what you have, which, imo, Knotts does not do. They just slap together whatever ride they get thier hands on. The end result is a lack luster visit. I know I'd be pretty pissed if I paid entry into knotts to recieve the service that I've gotten on my last few visits, as well as if I was an out of stater going to knotts after my visit from disneyland, I would probably be underwhelmed by the whole experience and spend another day at DLR.

 

And yes, while it is technically a resort, it's a poor example of one, imo.

 

As for room for expansion. THey have some, but they would first have to build an expensive parking structure, then cleverly shift things around. But before they decide, or even come to thinking that they need to do such a thing, I would rather see them do things to better what they currently have.

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They just slap together whatever ride they get thier hands on. The end result is a lack luster visit. I know I'd be pretty pissed if I paid entry into knotts to recieve the service that I've gotten on my last few visits, as well as if I was an out of stater going to knotts after my visit from disneyland, I would probably be underwhelmed by the whole experience and spend another day at DLR.

 

And yes, while it is technically a resort, it's a poor example of one, imo.

 

Yeah, but you're comparing Knott's to DISNEY. I certainly hope you aren't suggesting for Knott's admission price of $39.95 (print-at-home) that you expect the same experience you get by paying $63.00 to get into Disneyland or California Adventure. I mean come on, Knott's motto is "More Bang For Your Buck." They know they can't go up to par with Disney and they accept that.

 

I know plenty of people living north of Southern California that have taken the Knott's option and stayed at the Resort and played there as a substitute for the much more expensive Disneyland. Rather, they stay at Knott's, and take a shuttle to Disney.

 

Well they have alot of room for expansion.

 

--Jay

 

Please make sure you know what you're talking about before you type it. Cedar Fair does not own any property that's still undeveloped within park borders. There is no "expansion" room. But as they've been doing for the past few decades, all new attractions replaced other existing attractions. That's an immediate sign of no room for immediate expansion -- where you have to take something out in order to put something new in.

 

The lots across the street from the park are designated employee parking and equipment storage. I'm not even sure if Cedar Fair owns this land or has it leased from the city of Buena Park...in any event. Knott's does not have "plenty of room to expand."

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