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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 639: Montezooma's Revenge major renovations announced!

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I don't understand how they can 'equally fault Intamin', when Knotts admitted that it needed to be inspected at worst every six months and it was three weeks past that when it snapped!!!

 

Perhaps maintenance was too busy installing trashcans (v4.27), to do things on schedule??

 

On a serious note, whether or not the guidelines as set forth by Intamin are one month or six months, I would think that if safety was really a priority anymore (and I'm not talking about changing height restrictions, must wear coats on rides, being indecisive on glasses policy, etc... those are cheap cop-outs IMO) they would've set the stricter standards for themselves as "preventative maintenance" to insure things like this would not happen.

 

Typical American response: "It's not my fault. Blame those who made it, even if we didn't follow ANY maintenance guidelines!"

 

 

And people wonder why we trash Knott's so often nowadays.

 

 

 

Jeff "Used to love Knott's, now, pave it." Johnson

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Intamin didn't respond? So you can spend $20 Million on a coaster and the manufacturer just leaves you after that?

I think that's an unfair statement to make. There are many different ways that "not responding" could be interpreted. I would seriously doubt that Intamin just flat out "ignored" the client.

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On a serious note, whether or not the guidelines as set forth by Intamin are one month or six months, I would think that if safety was really a priority anymore (and I'm not talking about changing height restrictions, must wear coats on rides, being indecisive on glasses policy, etc... those are cheap cop-outs IMO) they would've set the stricter standards for themselves as "preventative maintenance" to insure things like this would not happen.

 

And, I am very surprised to learn that rides continue to operate despite being overdue for an inspection.

Are guests now supposed to be burdened with the task of determining whether each attraction has been inspected per the manufacturer's schedule?

 

The following rides are closed: ...

The following rides are open, but overdue for inspection. Ride at your own risk: ??

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On a serious note, whether or not the guidelines as set forth by Intamin are one month or six months, I would think that if safety was really a priority anymore (and I'm not talking about changing height restrictions, must wear coats on rides, being indecisive on glasses policy, etc... those are cheap cop-outs IMO) they would've set the stricter standards for themselves as "preventative maintenance" to insure things like this would not happen.

 

Typical American response: "It's not my fault. Blame those who made it, even if we didn't follow ANY maintenance guidelines!"

 

While I have my own criticisms of the park, I'm not sure I completely agree with your comments. It was the state that wants to blame Intamin, not Knott's themselves (yet), it's obviously all Knott's fault for not doing any preventive maintenance, AND for letting it go three weeks passed it's six month inspection. I'm going to wait until the press release tomorrow to fully form an opinion on how I really feel about it all. I'm sure it's also incredibly difficult to keep the maintenance hogs like Xcelerator with a park that's open year round as opposed to parks that close in Winter with having to keep all the other rides in working and (mainly) safe order. i would hope this will lead to changes though that will allow the maintenance department to have the proper resources (weather it be more time, more money, better planning, or more people) to keep something like this from happening again.

 

I also just want to point out that maintenance usually isn't the department that makes the policies for the ride, and while they work together and the same park, I'm sure most of us can agree that departments (and their managers in any situation including outside amusement parks) are usually pretty independent.

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I was at the park from 11-5 today. I got on 42 total rides. Xcelerator tormented me by testing all day (purple train) but was not open. I met Cody (Calicoasters). Very nice guy. One time when I rode Silver Bullet the ride op on the mic said "enjoy the rest of your day at Knott's Berry Farm, more flags more fun........yes I know that is the Six Flags motto" A ride op on GhostRider thanked me for fastening the seat belt around the lap restraint in the seat next to me for her. Pony Express was closed but I don't really like it anyway so I didn't really care.

 

Here is my day in order. Just about everything was a walk on and a stay on.

 

1, 2. GhostRider twice. 15 min wait and 10 min wait, probably because the back of the park had just opened.

3, 4, 5. Silver Bullet three times.

6, 7, 8. Sierra Sidewinder three times.

9, 10. Montezooma's Revenge twice.

11. La Revolucion once.

12, 13. Jaguar twice.

14. La Revolucion once.

15, 16. Supreme Scream twice.

17, 18. Boomerang twice.

19, 20. GhostRider twice.

21, 22, 23. Silver Bullet three times. Walk on to front row on the first ride.

24, 25, 26. Sierra Sidewinder three times.

27, 28, 29. Montezooma's Revenge three times. Sat in very back then front row then middle.

30. La Revolucion once.

31, 32. Jaguar twice.

33. La Revolucion once.

34, 35. Supreme Scream twice.

36, 37. Boomerang twice. Sat in the middle then moved to front row.

38, 39. 40. Silver Bullet three times. Sat in middle then the back then moved to front row.

41, 42. GhostRider twice.

 

Ride totals:

GhostRider: 6

Silver Bullet: 9

Sierra Sidewinder: 6

Montezooma's Revenge: 5

La Revolucion: 4

Jaguar: 4

Supreme Scream: 4

Boomerang: 4

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A ride op on GhostRider thanked me for fastening the seat belt around the lap restraint in the seat next to me for her.

 

I usually get dirty looks when I do that. One time an Operator even went as far as to tell me to stop doing his job.

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In 2007, Knott’s maintenance division asked Intamin to clarify the inspection schedule, but the company never responded, Cal-OSHA spokesman Dean Fryer said.

Intamin didn't respond? So you can spend $20 Million on a coaster and the manufacturer just leaves you after that?

I think that's an unfair statement to make. There are many different ways that "not responding" could be interpreted. I would seriously doubt that Intamin just flat out "ignored" the client.

Being 3 weeks past the maximum implied inspection time frame is totally Knott's fault, and 100% of the blame should be on them. But I have to agree with nitrofan. Even if it wasn't Intamin "ignoring" a client, it takes them over 2 years to answer a simple safety question that was multiple choice with only 2 answers, and they still didn't answer it? Do they not know the product well enough that they couldn't answer it immediately, or that the manual was so confusing they had to do studies? Heck, Intamin just should have responded immediately with the "1 month" time frame, then everyone would have been covered. It's absurd.

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To austinlee: You didn't ride Pony Express?

 

But you got so many rides on GhostRider...it must be running fairly well then because normally it can beat you up pretty well.

 

To nitrofan: That ride operator sounds like a real snot. Whenever I ride a wooden coaster with a seat belt, I always put them up over the sides when I get out so that the next person to ride won't sit on them and can get to them easily. Every ride op who sees me doing that says "thanks."

 

Eric

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^^I'd actually like to see the full report. I wonder if that claim is based on statements from Knott's, or if there are actual records of this happening(fax/email/etc)?

 

I think that's a key issue, because in all my experience in the industry, I have never heard of such a communication breakdown between a manufacturer and a park. Typically there is constant communication between the two parties, issuing service bulletins, selling replacement parts, help troubleshooting problems, etc. Also, maintenance schedules are usually very clearly defined in the documentation they provide (state regulators and insurance companies wouldn't have it any other way).

 

Another interesting thing I'm curious about: why did it take until 2007 to first notice the discrepancy? In order to have been in compliance with the state, they should have had to create maintenance checksheets to document all the scheduled maintenance they do. And the state checks those every year. So someone had to have had an idea about how often to inspect the cable since 2002! And no-one even thought to double check this after the TTD cable snapped?

Edited by Jew
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Just to be fair, i didn't see anything, anywhere about anyone "jumping down" anyones throat. It simply says they asked and didn't get a rresponse In reality the cable must need to be inspected monthly, or at least it should, i can't see making a spec ,that when passed by only three weeks, you get a ride failure.

 

By the way i am kicking myself for talking myself out of going today, because i didn't want to drive home in traffic. I went to target instead, just brilliant.

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I rode Xcelerator twice today! The ride reopened today around 5 P.M.

 

^Nice meeting you as well! Looks like somebody should have hung out at the park for just a little longer

 

hey i think i saw you today too, I was the guy who hung out for like 3 hours waiting for Xcelerator to reopen

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And, I am very surprised to learn that rides continue to operate despite being overdue for an inspection.

Are guests now supposed to be burdened with the task of determining whether each attraction has been inspected per the manufacturer's schedule?

 

The following rides are closed: ...

The following rides are open, but overdue for inspection. Ride at your own risk: ??

 

I think that a lot of machines (rides and others) don't get inspected as they should.

 

Next time you're in an elevator, check out the paper on the wall that states when the permit expires. Chances are it will be way past expiration and in need of an inspection...

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Really your more at risk driving to there, than riding anything. But, in all honesty we all just assume, as americans, that the government has someone slithering around making sure everything is "OK" to ride. When in actuality, just like in this case, until something goes wrong, allot of this stuff goes unchecked. I mean aside from trying not to kill people, the best reason for a park to be safe is to keep insurance costs down.

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I rode Xcelerator twice today! The ride reopened today around 5 P.M.

^Nice meeting you as well! Looks like somebody should have hung out at the park for just a little longer

hey i think i saw you today too, I was the guy who hung out for like 3 hours waiting for Xcelerator to reopen

 

Honestly there were quit a few people hanging around Xcelerator yesterday but I'm pretty sure I know who you are. I don't think there will be so much waiting today.

 

But then again, it is still closed according to the website.

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OK, this whole six month, one month thing was REALLY stupid on Knott's part. If there is that big of a time-gap in between the time to check the cable that smart thing to do would have been to do at the one month mark. I mean Knott's had to know that the cable snapping is a possibility with TTD's cable snapping a few years back, its common sense to check the cable at the one month mark. But the part that is extra stupid is they went PAST the six months, almost a whole extra month...Better safe than sorry.

 

One the other note I am probably going to KBF this weekend, because on May 16th (orginal KBF trip date) Montezooma will be closed.

 

All in all I am happy to hear that Xcelerator is back open, and now I am ready for some AIRTIME!!!

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