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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 639: Montezooma's Revenge major renovations announced!

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I think part of the issue is using the term "major player" to be equivalent to "destination resort"--as in, a park that people from all over the country and world would make a point to visit, and stay for a number of days (and not just coaster geek people--the general public). And if that is your definition, there's really only three "major players" in the country: WDW, Universal Orlando, and Disneyland. Therefore, by that definition, every other park in the country is a regional park.

 

To a degree, that is not really untrue. However, it doesn't mean that some regional parks are still very influential, successful, and can be extremely profitable. Also by that definition, there would have to be "major players" within the regional park circuit. And in that sense, Knott's is a major player. I'd also argue SFMM, CP, USH, and to a bit lesser extent, Sea World parks fall into the same category of being very influential, popular and (mostly) profitable--without necessarily being destination resorts.

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Universal and Disneyland in so cal has always pulled a huge amount of tourists, international, and north america. i've never noticed this at knott's or sfmm.

 

i agree, knott's is a very successful regional park, as is CP.

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If Cedar Fair commits to annually investing in Knott's and even CGA for the next 5 years.....they could literally grow their company by leaps and bounds, giving themselves plenty of cash to invest in the other parks. Any CEO that doesn't see Knott's Berry Farm as the most obvious cash cow for Cedar Fair, probably shouldn't be running Cedar Fair.

Curious what you mean by this... Cedar Fair already invests in Knott's yearly.

 

Also I'm pretty sure Knott's isn't the biggest cash cow. I would leave that to Kings Island, Carowinds, Cedar Point, or Canada's Wonderland (as someone pointed out above) considering they receive "More love" from Cedar Fair (ie, Big Rides, large area updates, both more frequent than Knott's). May be wrong though.

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Went to the park yesterday to check out hangtime and really liked it. I think knotts really has a winner on their hands and wouldn't mind seeing more of these infinity coasters pop up.

 

[attachment=0]IMG_4507.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment=1]IMG_4514.JPG[/attachment]

 

 

 

OMG I just saw my face LOL I can't help myself!!!!

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If Cedar Fair commits to annually investing in Knott's and even CGA for the next 5 years.....they could literally grow their company by leaps and bounds, giving themselves plenty of cash to invest in the other parks. Any CEO that doesn't see Knott's Berry Farm as the most obvious cash cow for Cedar Fair, probably shouldn't be running Cedar Fair.

Curious what you mean by this... Cedar Fair already invests in Knott's yearly.

 

Also I'm pretty sure Knott's isn't the biggest cash cow. I would leave that to Kings Island, Carowinds, Cedar Point, or Canada's Wonderland (as someone pointed out above) considering they receive "More love" from Cedar Fair (ie, Big Rides, large area updates, both more frequent than Knott's). May be wrong though.

From a pure attendence stand point, Knott's is the only Cedar Fair park over 4 million visitors each year. Canada's Wonderland is second over 3.5 million. Cedar Point is approaching 3.5 million, and Kings Island is in the lower 3's. Carowinds has to be around 2.5 million. Now maybe Cedar Point has more revenue from the hotels but from a pure traffic stand point, Knott's is actually #1.
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If Cedar Fair commits to annually investing in Knott's and even CGA for the next 5 years.....they could literally grow their company by leaps and bounds, giving themselves plenty of cash to invest in the other parks. Any CEO that doesn't see Knott's Berry Farm as the most obvious cash cow for Cedar Fair, probably shouldn't be running Cedar Fair.

Curious what you mean by this... Cedar Fair already invests in Knott's yearly.

 

Also I'm pretty sure Knott's isn't the biggest cash cow. I would leave that to Kings Island, Carowinds, Cedar Point, or Canada's Wonderland (as someone pointed out above) considering they receive "More love" from Cedar Fair (ie, Big Rides, large area updates, both more frequent than Knott's). May be wrong though.

From a pure attendence stand point, Knott's is the only Cedar Fair park over 4 million visitors each year. Canada's Wonderland is second over 3.5 million. Cedar Point is approaching 3.5 million, and Kings Island is in the lower 3's. Carowinds has to be around 2.5 million. Now maybe Cedar Point has more revenue from the hotels but from a pure traffic stand point, Knott's is actually #1.

Totally agree with you that Knott's has the highest attendance, but in terms of who has the biggest potential for the company at the moment, I'd put my money on KI, CP, CA, and CW.

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I think the point being missed is that CP, KI, and CW are all 4-month(+) parks, while Knott's is a 12-month park. So while it has the highest attendance, it also has many year-round operating costs that those other parks do not have.

 

it would be interesting to see the costs. a park like CP is what, 3-4 times the size of knott's. so i'm sure CP's costs are incredibly high during the season. 2x, 3x more than knott's? so i honestly am not sure how different their yearly costs really are or not.

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I think the point being missed is that CP, KI, and CW are all 4-month(+) parks, while Knott's is a 12-month park. So while it has the highest attendance, it also has many year-round operating costs that those other parks do not have.

 

it would be interesting to see the costs. a park like CP is what, 3-4 times the size of knott's. so i'm sure CP's costs are incredibly high during the season. 2x, 3x more than knott's? so i honestly am not sure how different their yearly costs really are or not.

 

And don't forget that just because a park like Cedar Point doesn't operate for 6 months of the year doesn't mean they are sitting back and relaxing all winter. I'm sure maintaining all 398573945 of their roller coasters cannot be cheap.

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I think the point being missed is that CP, KI, and CW are all 4-month(+) parks, while Knott's is a 12-month park. So while it has the highest attendance, it also has many year-round operating costs that those other parks do not have.
KI operates through Christmas. They have a holiday operations for Christmas and Halloween. CP has it for Halloween. Carowinds is similar to KI. Bot sure about Canada's Wonderland if they operate during Halloween, Not sure how many visitors Knott's is getting in the fall/winter during the week.
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What are the estimated line waits for Monday, June the 18th?

 

Don't know about teh 18th, but the past two weeks have seen weekdays very busy with middle school students on their 8th grade graduation trips, it seems. Lotta line cutting, flirting teenagers, loud rap music on iphones in line.... On the bright side, yesterday both Ghostrider and HAngtime were really tackling their operations issues. Hangtime was actually sending out a train as soon as one came in.

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So, my thoughts after my first visit ever to Knotts...

 

Overall a nice park, but found the clientele to be the most queue-jumpy and rude out of all the SoCal parks we visited.

Every queue had big groups of 8+ people pushing through, as well as constantly being hit by people behind us/infront of us just walking into us or turning and hitting us with their backpacks... tiring on a hot day

 

Found SIlver Bullet to be quite average, HangTime feels a lot more refined but a lot less intense than some of the other Gerstlaurers i've been on like Saw: The Ride, The Smiler and Takabisha.

 

I really enjoyed Timber Mountain and the Calico Mine Train ride and the fullsize steam train. It was unique for me to ride the triple S&S tower, in the UK we had a double-shot, shot towers and we have a combo tower - but i've never ridden an S&S drop-only tower (Cliffhanger, our Combo Tower does a shot sequence followed by the drop sequence rather than going straight to the top and dropping)

 

I really enjoyed Xcelerator, however running on 1 train made the queue pretty slow. Montezooma's Revenge was nice and intense, and I found Ghost Rider to be a really excellent woodie, but the queueline was pretty horrendous - they were keeping most of the queue in switchbacks in the big enclosed room below, rather than the airy station.

 

Had a good day but the excessive queuejumping and slow operations dampened our spirits a bit.

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^I agree with all of that. Ghostrider, Xcelerator, and Montezooma are the standouts, Hangtime and Silver Bullet are fun enough but not great. I was there yesterday myself and even with Knott's as my home park, I don't think I've ever seen the line jumping so bad, and it's often pretty bad. Sometimes it seems the typical guest M.O. for Ghostrider's queue is for 1-2 people per group to remain in line while the rest make use of the numerous entrances/exits to come and go as they please until they board the train.

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I totally agree about their staff being friendly, we've had so many fun interactions with different people there over the years it's one of the few parks my non-thrill-riding husband insists on going to every time we're in So. Cal.

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What are the estimated line waits for Monday, June the 18th?

 

Don't know about teh 18th, but the past two weeks have seen weekdays very busy with middle school students on their 8th grade graduation trips, it seems. Lotta line cutting, flirting teenagers, loud rap music on iphones in line.... On the bright side, yesterday both Ghostrider and HAngtime were really tackling their operations issues. Hangtime was actually sending out a train as soon as one came in.

 

I would like to add that on every flat ride I rode, some teenager took out their phone to film it. Ride operators would just yell at them, but they don't listen.

 

This should be a bumper year from Knott's. The economy is still doing really well and they opened their first looping coaster since Silver Bullet. This year at least seems a lot busier than it did the last two years.

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Knott's has been getting a lot busier. And with it's nearest neighbor costing nearly 3-4 times as much to get in, as well as increasing quality and very clever events that cater to locals (notably Boysenberry Festival, Ghost Town Alive, Haunt, and Merry Farm), it's not a surprise. Good for Knott's, I say. It's been long underrated.

 

That said, the behavior by the crowd mentioned in the posts above is generally not normal. It has been increasing a bit, and not a shock it should happen when multiple schools are attending, but still mostly out of the ordinary. That said, the lines are really starting to increase around that park... it's no longer the "ghost town" it used to be.

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I agree Knott's is definitely busier this year. Weekdays are seeing weekend sized crowds since Memorial Day weekend. I think they're on the right track with the seasonal events and new shows. That's the kind of stuff that brigs people in.

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Why do people let others line jump?... ok, mom had to take a kid or two to the bathroom but when 5 teens try to pass, i roadblock and call them out on. "I don't care if your friend is at the front of the line, you're not passing me, feel lucky you got this far"...amazing how many people around join in and typically shame them out of the queue

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When I was at Knott's about a month ago, a whole family cut through the mid-queue exit on Jaguar. They had a kid sneak inside and open the door, after which the rest of the kids and both parents cut in line.

This park has some of the worst line-cutting I've seen, and the staff tend to look the other way when it happens.

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Why do people let others line jump?... ok, mom had to take a kid or two to the bathroom but when 5 teens try to pass, i roadblock and call them out on. "I don't care if your friend is at the front of the line, you're not passing me, feel lucky you got this far"...amazing how many people around join in and typically shame them out of the queue

 

I am just curious where you are from? Is it Florida, where you can just yell "I am standin' my ground" and then open fire into the group of thugs?

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I live in Santa Clarita, I'm from Sacramento ...thugs? The coversation was about middle school/high school kids and entire families. ..its ok, I'll stand my ground, you can let entitled millennials walk all over you....im not trying to be a jerk, I'm just saying, the more they get away with it the more theyre going to do it. How well do you think its works out for them when they try to walk past the so called 'thugs'

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Why do people let others line jump?

 

I don't go to parks to start confrontations with large groups of people. If I go to a park and the amount of line jumping is excessive and the park does nothing about it then it might impact my decision to go there in the future and my general opinion of the park, but most people are out for a fun day and don't feel like taking the enforcement of park rules into their own hands. I'm sure the parks don't condone that and it's not something most people want to deal with (myself included).

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