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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 639: Montezooma's Revenge major renovations announced!

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I think the current leadership has done a great job over the last few with rehabbing classics (TMLR, Mine Ride, GhostRider), adding family friendly attractions (Coast Rider, Iron Reef), and revamping Camp Snoopy. But it's time they added a new thrill coaster like a B&M Hyper or a dive machine. This is especially true if they get rid of Boomerang. I know a lot of enthusiasts hate on Boomerang, but the ride is still very popular and is a nice step up coaster as kids get older.

 

Seriously... what is so freaking special about B&M Dive coasters? They look so boring to me.

 

The world doesn't revolve around coaster enthusiasts. Most people lose their sh*t over the holding brakes. Valravn's promo video went viral simply for that reason.

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It's not about what is special to enthusiasts. It's about what wow's the guests. A vertical drop certainly qualifies as something that wows. Boomerang might be "popular," but it's also low capacity and very old by today's standards. With riptide gone, unless they replace that with another flat ride, the logical thing would be to clear out boomerang too (which will fit nicely right next to Stinger at Dorney Park) for expansion.

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It's not about what is special to enthusiasts. It's about what wow's the guests. A vertical drop certainly qualifies as something that wows. Boomerang might be "popular," but it's also low capacity and very old by today's standards. With riptide gone, unless they replace that with another flat ride, the logical thing would be to clear out boomerang too (which will fit nicely right next to Stinger at Dorney Park) for expansion.

 

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^ While I do love those rides, Knott's has enough super short coasters. Monty, Pony Express, and Xcelerator are all extremely quick rides. I'm hoping for something more along the lines of Silver Bullet or Ghost Rider length. Something like a Megalite or a Mack.

 

Totally agree, as much as I like the Sky Rocket II coasters, the park doesn't need another low capacity launched coaster. Plus Xcelerator is right next to the site and it's a superior ride. I'd love to see a big B&M (hyper, dive, winged, take your pick), but I'd take an airtime filled Megalite, Chance GT-X, or Mack anyday.

If they were to remove the 2 buildings by Calico Mine Ride & Boomerang they could possibly fit a B&M Dive Coaster in the spot though it would be very small. I say a Hyper GT-X that goes over or under Timber Mountain Log Ride and does a turn around by Silver Bullet's helix would be the way to go. I drew a layout for the coaster and what it would look like in its spot.

image.thumb.jpeg.e76701a17befa7ffdf691bfc0f0006a7.jpeg

Blue: coaster

Yellow: station

Red: queue

Green: this is not related to a the coaster but they can possibly put a slingshot in this area. Definitely be a good fit for the boardwalk area

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I think they need to remove everything from Johnny Rockets down through Xcel. That whole boardwalk area just doesn't work. When compared to the other areas of the park, just collapses visually. I would carry the theme started by the Reef, and carry it forward. Throw the bumper cars in the trash, and replace it with a modern flat ride that connects to Reef's theme, which is well executed. Redo the pizza court thing at the base of the theater, at least make it more of the art deco style. It is pretty junky looking now. And the arcade is extremely dated, time to toss it. Be a nice space for a VR showcase area.

 

I think the Dive Machine coaster would work well for Knott's, as it could carry the ocean theme started by Reef. Surfside Gliders and Scrambler don't have to remain in that location. Currently nothing by in Windseeker's grave. I could see a large coaster taking up all the real estate between Boomerang, Riptide (RIP), Scrambler, and Gliders.

Except that everything between Iron Reef and Xcelerator is very popular with their target demographic. And it was a huge investment. They aren't removing any of that within the next ten to fifteen years.

 

 

On the flip side, all of the rides on the boardwalk are rides that can be very easily moved to another cedar fair park. Flat rides and a mouse. We're not talking about a custom coaster layout here...

 

I don't think the boardwalk will be touched (if anything, if Boomerang is replaced, they'd use it as an excuse to keep improving the theme), but I don't think the cost of a mouse and a couple flat rides would deter them either...

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^ While I do love those rides, Knott's has enough super short coasters. Monty, Pony Express, and Xcelerator are all extremely quick rides. I'm hoping for something more along the lines of Silver Bullet or Ghost Rider length. Something like a Megalite or a Mack.

 

Totally agree, as much as I like the Sky Rocket II coasters, the park doesn't need another low capacity launched coaster. Plus Xcelerator is right next to the site and it's a superior ride. I'd love to see a big B&M (hyper, dive, winged, take your pick), but I'd take an airtime filled Megalite, Chance GT-X, or Mack anyday.

If they were to remove the 2 buildings by Calico Mine Ride & Boomerang they could possibly fit a B&M Dive Coaster in the spot though it would be very small. I say a Hyper GT-X that goes over or under Timber Mountain Log Ride and does a turn around by Silver Bullet's helix would be the way to go. I drew a layout for the coaster and what it would look like in its spot.

 

Not happening. Boardwalk Ballroom is a money maker for special events, plus it houses an employee cafeteria, rehearsal space for entertainment shows, and there are some offices right behind it.

 

Also... Matt Ouimet hates the way the Bullet was constructed so obtrusively on top of and around everything else. I doubt he would be okay with doing it again.

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^ I wonder why he hates it? I think it looks nice and it was a great way to add a coaster without removing much.

Because it doesn't fit the theming and it destroyed the lagoon.

 

Exactly! It's not so much that it looks bad now, but that it wrecked something that looked much better.

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If Knott's ever decides to add something, especially a coaster, I just hope it's high capacity. Knott's has a lot of low capacity attractions (Xcelerator, Boomerang, Pony Express, Coast Rider, etc.). And while a new coaster would be nice, I'm not opposed to the idea of a couple thrilling flats either.

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^ I wonder why he hates it? I think it looks nice and it was a great way to add a coaster without removing much.

Because it doesn't fit the theming and it destroyed the lagoon.

 

Exactly! It's not so much that it looks bad now, but that it wrecked something that looked much better.

Wouldn't be surprised if Ouimet decides to relocate Bullet elsewhere in the chain if that's the case. I did think it made the park feel a little front loaded when I visited a few years back.

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^ I wonder why he hates it? I think it looks nice and it was a great way to add a coaster without removing much.

Because it doesn't fit the theming and it destroyed the lagoon.

 

Exactly! It's not so much that it looks bad now, but that it wrecked something that looked much better.

Wouldn't be surprised if Ouimet decides to relocate Bullet elsewhere in the chain if that's the case. I did think it made the park feel a little front loaded when I visited a few years back.

No, it's too popular a ride at Knott's. They'd never relocate it as long as ridership is up. I read an idea elsewhere online that they should move it to another spot within the park. If they decided to expand into the south parking lot they could move it there.

Edited by coloradocoasterguy
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Going back to our previous discussion, TEA report pegged KBF attendance at 3.9 million and Soak City nowhere in their top 20 for water parks (#20 was at 402,000).

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I'm curious as to why CF does not invest more into Knotts Soak City. You would think that with the Cali heat, water park expansions would be well worth it. It really is such a tiny water park compared to what one would expect.

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Going back to our previous discussion, TEA report pegged KBF attendance at 3.9 million and Soak City nowhere in their top 20 for water parks (#20 was at 402,000).

 

 

I'm guessing that Cedar Fair includes Knotts Market Place and the Hotel into their attendance figures for the Knotts property.

 

 

There is no way that the Theme Park and Water Park combined drew 5.5 million people.

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With the removal of boomerang, you could probably fit in a clone of Fahrenheit at Hersheypark, or something along those lines from Intamin with a vertical lift hill. I always thought that ride looked really fun despite the fact that a lot of enthusiasts think it's not that great. The GP would probably love it.

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Going back to our previous discussion, TEA report pegged KBF attendance at 3.9 million and Soak City nowhere in their top 20 for water parks (#20 was at 402,000).

 

 

I'm guessing that Cedar Fair includes Knotts Market Place and the Hotel into their attendance figures for the Knotts property.

 

 

There is no way that the Theme Park and Water Park combined drew 5.5 million people.

Where does TEA Connect and the IAPAA get their figures?

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I'm curious as to why CF does not invest more into Knotts Soak City. You would think that with the Cali heat, water park expansions would be well worth it. It really is such a tiny water park compared to what one would expect.

I agree. The place doesn't have much to compel me to go and hasn't since I was in middle school which is probably the last time I've gone. I imagine the target demo is still middle schoolers without much life experience and consider it cool because options are limited in SoCal (most water parks I the area don't have much going on for them) and because it's conveniently located.

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Going back to our previous discussion, TEA report pegged KBF attendance at 3.9 million and Soak City nowhere in their top 20 for water parks (#20 was at 402,000).

 

 

I'm guessing that Cedar Fair includes Knotts Market Place and the Hotel into their attendance figures for the Knotts property.

 

 

There is no way that the Theme Park and Water Park combined drew 5.5 million people.

Where does TEA Connect and the IAPAA get their figures?

 

They use a combination of publicly available information and their sources.

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I'm curious as to why CF does not invest more into Knotts Soak City. You would think that with the Cali heat, water park expansions would be well worth it. It really is such a tiny water park compared to what one would expect.

I agree. The place doesn't have much to compel me to go and hasn't since I was in middle school which is probably the last time I've gone. I imagine the target demo is still middle schoolers without much life experience and consider it cool because options are limited in SoCal (most water parks I the area don't have much going on for them) and because it's conveniently located.

There are four water parks in the Los Angeles area: Redlands, Valencia, San Dimas, and Buena Park, plus one in Palm Springs and three in the San Diego area. That's eight parks for approximately 20 million people, and most are packed every day of the season. Water parks are a different market than amusement parks. There's not really a need to constantly offer new thrills. Getting wet and having fun doing so is essentially the point.

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Going back to our previous discussion, TEA report pegged KBF attendance at 3.9 million and Soak City nowhere in their top 20 for water parks (#20 was at 402,000).

 

 

I'm guessing that Cedar Fair includes Knotts Market Place and the Hotel into their attendance figures for the Knotts property.

 

 

There is no way that the Theme Park and Water Park combined drew 5.5 million people.

Where does TEA Connect and the IAPAA get their figures?

 

They use a combination of publicly available information and their sources.

So in other words not very accurate. Got it. I'll trust CF's own numbers.

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