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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 651: Montezooma's Revenge project terminated?

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First the Blue areas, in addition to Ballroom as was already mentioned, also include an employee restaurant, break room, fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo rooms, rest rooms, and a park office.

 

Second, they can't touch Sky Tower or they would have for Windseeker. The "K" atop the tower and it's exact position in the freaking sky are registered historic landmarks. In order for Sky Tower to be removed Knott's would have to find a way to remount the "K" on top of whatever new attraction was built there and in its exact location where it currently sits. The EXACT location on TOP. It can not be off so much a millimeter in any direction up, down, east, west, side to side, etc; nor can any other structure be around it, so it can't be mounted on the side of a coaster lift, for example. It has to be on top visible as a landmark.

 

Thirdly, Knott's and CF CEO Matt Ouimet have reaffirmed that Knott's is a themed family destination with an emphasis on families and history. It is not a coaster thrill destination, it is not meant to rival SFMM or Disneyland. There will likely be no traditional hyper coaster ever built at Knott's in the future, though I could see a dive machine or even a Euro Fighter. Ouimet and park GM Raffi Kaprelyan have both publicly stated that KBF's focus on coasters for the sake of coasters after the CF acquisition, specifically Silver Bullet's destruction of the lagoon, as well as Pony Express was a mistake.

 

Aside from it being mentioned on wikipedia with no citation, I've never heard that the K is officially a landmark. It's only been there since the 70's, so I'm not exactly sure how it would qualify for landmark status since it really has no historical significance aside from being visible . Realistically, I think they made the change because they realized the logistics of taking down the tower and then adding a new one didn't really make much sense.

 

Parks also need balance. Families and history are great, but families also have kids that grow up. Even the Knott's family had to buy the best thrills they could afford to stay competitive (Monte, Boomerang, GhostRider, and even the ill-fated Windjammer).

 

It's from an interview with Kaprelyan a few years ago. Can't find the article.

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Throughout their history, Knott's has always balanced thrills with family friendly attractions. Knott's had the first inverting steel coaster (Corkscrew) and one of the first Schwarzkopf shuttle loops (Montezooma). Both of those coasters were pretty revolutionary when they were built. Ghostrider is the longest, fastest woodie on the West Coast, Xcelerator was the first Intamin accelerator coaster, and Surpreme Scream was the tallest drop tower when it opened. So to say that a Hyper coaster or a dive machine doesn't fit at Knott's really isn't true.

 

I think the current leadership has done a great job over the last few with rehabbing classics (TMLR, Mine Ride, GhostRider), adding family friendly attractions (Coast Rider, Iron Reef), and revamping Camp Snoopy. But it's time they added a new thrill coaster like a B&M Hyper or a dive machine. This is especially true if they get rid of Boomerang. I know a lot of enthusiasts hate on Boomerang, but the ride is still very popular and is a nice step up coaster as kids get older.

There's no room for a hyper. I just don't see a hyper fitting into their plans. There is no need for one.

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I know a lot of enthusiasts hate on Boomerang, but the ride is still popular and is a nice step up coaster as kids get older.

 

I agree with it still being popular, and it may seem like a good step-up coaster at first glance, but I have seen people coming off Boomerang holding their heads in pain. I don't agree that a good step-up coaster has to be smooth, but the first time through the cobra roll really smacks your head around if you are not riding defensively. I would say that Montezooma's Revenge is a better step-up coaster ten times over. But that's just my two cents.

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I know there's a customized one in Vegas, and Steel Hawg in Indiana Beach,

but how about an El Loco in Knott's? It would certainly fit the print, and probably could be customized, too.

 

 

It's funny, because I was just thinking that. It's good from a footprint point of view, and despite one in Vegas, they're still relatively rare. And they also fit into a thrilling, but still mostly family friendly category that makes it a good fit for them.

 

Fixed it up, a bit.

 

*I'm actually thinking good thoughts about two El Locos: One for Knott's, and the other at my home park, Playland(PNE),

to replace our tired, old, cranky, Corkscrew coaster. It would also beat the east, for having The First One in Canada.

 

It's Win - Win!

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How do you think the lines will be during the June 13th and 21st weekdays after GhostRider reopens? Going to go during the week but I assume GR will be a 15-30 min wait even during the week. And colleges will be done and some schools right?

 

Probably closer to an hour. Most school will be out by then, and it was always one of the longer lines even before the refurb.

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I think the current leadership has done a great job over the last few with rehabbing classics (TMLR, Mine Ride, GhostRider), adding family friendly attractions (Coast Rider, Iron Reef), and revamping Camp Snoopy. But it's time they added a new thrill coaster like a B&M Hyper or a dive machine. This is especially true if they get rid of Boomerang. I know a lot of enthusiasts hate on Boomerang, but the ride is still very popular and is a nice step up coaster as kids get older.

 

Seriously... what is so freaking special about B&M Dive coasters? They look so boring to me.

 

Boomerang is still very popular and pretty reliable, so I don't see it going away anytime this year at least (especially with how over budget this summer has gone). On a personal note, I LOVE being able to tell people the Arrow/Vekoma story and then point out that there's a Vekoma Boomeramg on the site of the old Arrow Corkscrew. It's such an amazing and super shady amusement park history story.

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What do you think? Is it worth getting Fast Lane passes for our trip to Knott's on June 23rd? And is it likely to sell out at the gates?

 

Thursdays aren't as busy as Sat or Sun, but Fast lane is probably a good idea for summer season. Make sure to check out all the new entertainment shows as well as the rides (which Fast lane will help give you more time for).

Thanks for the response! We'll definitely be considering that advice.

 

We're thinking about waiting until that day to see the need to purchase Fast Lane or not (assuming they don't sell out). But my concern is not just wait times but how long they'll feel considering the lines are not very themed in comparison to Disneyland. It's difficult to gauge all this considering it will only be my second time visiting the park and a certain prediction website out there makes it feel borderline worth it. We do hope to ride the coasters more then once and we don't want to feel like the only people using Fast Lane passes. So ya.

 

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I think the current leadership has done a great job over the last few with rehabbing classics (TMLR, Mine Ride, GhostRider), adding family friendly attractions (Coast Rider, Iron Reef), and revamping Camp Snoopy. But it's time they added a new thrill coaster like a B&M Hyper or a dive machine. This is especially true if they get rid of Boomerang. I know a lot of enthusiasts hate on Boomerang, but the ride is still very popular and is a nice step up coaster as kids get older.

 

Seriously... what is so freaking special about B&M Dive coasters? They look so boring to me.

 

Boomerang is still very popular and pretty reliable, so I don't see it going away anytime this year at least (especially with how over budget this summer has gone). On a personal note, I LOVE being able to tell people the Arrow/Vekoma story and then point out that there's a Vekoma Boomeramg on the site of the old Arrow Corkscrew. It's such an amazing and super shady amusement park history story.

 

It's not about what is special to enthusiasts. It's about what wow's the guests. A vertical drop certainly qualifies as something that wows. Boomerang might be "popular," but it's also low capacity and very old by today's standards. With riptide gone, unless they replace that with another flat ride, the logical thing would be to clear out boomerang too (which can likely be sold to another park) for expansion.

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I think the current leadership has done a great job over the last few with rehabbing classics (TMLR, Mine Ride, GhostRider), adding family friendly attractions (Coast Rider, Iron Reef), and revamping Camp Snoopy. But it's time they added a new thrill coaster like a B&M Hyper or a dive machine. This is especially true if they get rid of Boomerang. I know a lot of enthusiasts hate on Boomerang, but the ride is still very popular and is a nice step up coaster as kids get older.

 

Seriously... what is so freaking special about B&M Dive coasters? They look so boring to me.

 

Boomerang is still very popular and pretty reliable, so I don't see it going away anytime this year at least (especially with how over budget this summer has gone). On a personal note, I LOVE being able to tell people the Arrow/Vekoma story and then point out that there's a Vekoma Boomeramg on the site of the old Arrow Corkscrew. It's such an amazing and super shady amusement park history story.

 

It's not about what is special to enthusiasts. It's about what wow's the guests. A vertical drop certainly qualifies as something that wows. Boomerang might be "popular," but it's also low capacity and very old by today's standards. With riptide gone, unless they replace that with another flat ride, the logical thing would be to clear out boomerang too (which can likely be sold to another park) for expansion.

 

There's a vertical drop only 100 yards away from Boomerang...

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I would say that since the experiences are still radically different, a dive machine would still be a huge hit. Especially since there is nothing like it in the market. I too would prefer something else, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it wouldn't a hit for the park and not work for them.

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Seriously... what is so freaking special about B&M Dive coasters? They look so boring to me.

 

It's not about what is special to enthusiasts. It's about what wow's the guests. A vertical drop certainly qualifies as something that wows.

 

^This. Believe me, as somebody who interacts with "GP" FAR more than I do fellow enthusiasts (at least in real - non-internet life), I can assure you that I haven't seen many coasters elicit such a strong response of awe, and fear, like Dive Coasters do! TTD and Kingda Ka are the only other kinds I've seen people get quite as worked up over. A Dive Machine is a strong investment for any park - be it Knott's, or Silver Dollar City - if they want a marquee attraction that will get the normal, everyday park-goer's blood going, and excited for the new coaster. It's clear that Valravn has already been a bigger draw to the park early in the season than a lot of their more recent large coasters!

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Seriously... what is so freaking special about B&M Dive coasters? They look so boring to me.

 

The swooping of the big trains, the elements that interact with the ride such as tunnels, overbanks/immelmann over pathway and other objects. Splash downs, ect. Dives work best when they interact with other elements which is why they are so fun.

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^ While I do love those rides, Knott's has enough super short coasters. Monty, Pony Express, and Xcelerator are all extremely quick rides. I'm hoping for something more along the lines of Silver Bullet or Ghost Rider length. Something like a Megalite or a Mack.

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^ While I do love those rides, Knott's has enough super short coasters. Monty, Pony Express, and Xcelerator are all extremely quick rides. I'm hoping for something more along the lines of Silver Bullet or Ghost Rider length. Something like a Megalite or a Mack.

 

Totally agree, as much as I like the Sky Rocket II coasters, the park doesn't need another low capacity launched coaster. Plus Xcelerator is right next to the site and it's a superior ride. I'd love to see a big B&M (hyper, dive, winged, take your pick), but I'd take an airtime filled Megalite, Chance GT-X, or Mack anyday.

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^ While I do love those rides, Knott's has enough super short coasters. Monty, Pony Express, and Xcelerator are all extremely quick rides. I'm hoping for something more along the lines of Silver Bullet or Ghost Rider length. Something like a Megalite or a Mack.

 

Totally agree, as much as I like the Sky Rocket II coasters, the park doesn't need another low capacity launched coaster. Plus Xcelerator is right next to the site and it's a superior ride. I'd love to see a big B&M (hyper, dive, winged, take your pick), but I'd take an airtime filled Megalite, Chance GT-X, or Mack anyday.

 

 

I've been hoping to see more Chance GT-X Coasters installed at parks ever since KK got Lighting Run. I'm really surprised it hasn't happened yet. But I do think it would be perfect for Knotts.

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I think they need to remove everything from Johnny Rockets down through Xcel. That whole boardwalk area just doesn't work. When compared to the other areas of the park, just collapses visually. I would carry the theme started by the Reef, and carry it forward. Throw the bumper cars in the trash, and replace it with a modern flat ride that connects to Reef's theme, which is well executed. Redo the pizza court thing at the base of the theater, at least make it more of the art deco style. It is pretty junky looking now. And the arcade is extremely dated, time to toss it. Be a nice space for a VR showcase area.

 

I think the Dive Machine coaster would work well for Knott's, as it could carry the ocean theme started by Reef. Surfside Gliders and Scrambler don't have to remain in that location. Currently nothing by in Windseeker's grave. I could see a large coaster taking up all the real estate between Boomerang, Riptide (RIP), Scrambler, and Gliders.

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I think they need to remove everything from Johnny Rockets down through Xcel. That whole boardwalk area just doesn't work. When compared to the other areas of the park, just collapses visually. I would carry the theme started by the Reef, and carry it forward. Throw the bumper cars in the trash, and replace it with a modern flat ride that connects to Reef's theme, which is well executed. Redo the pizza court thing at the base of the theater, at least make it more of the art deco style. It is pretty junky looking now. And the arcade is extremely dated, time to toss it. Be a nice space for a VR showcase area.

 

I think the Dive Machine coaster would work well for Knott's, as it could carry the ocean theme started by Reef. Surfside Gliders and Scrambler don't have to remain in that location. Currently nothing by in Windseeker's grave. I could see a large coaster taking up all the real estate between Boomerang, Riptide (RIP), Scrambler, and Gliders.

Except that everything between Iron Reef and Xcelerator is very popular with their target demographic. And it was a huge investment. They aren't removing any of that within the next ten to fifteen years.
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I think the current leadership has done a great job over the last few with rehabbing classics (TMLR, Mine Ride, GhostRider), adding family friendly attractions (Coast Rider, Iron Reef), and revamping Camp Snoopy. But it's time they added a new thrill coaster like a B&M Hyper or a dive machine. This is especially true if they get rid of Boomerang. I know a lot of enthusiasts hate on Boomerang, but the ride is still very popular and is a nice step up coaster as kids get older.

 

Seriously... what is so freaking special about B&M Dive coasters? They look so boring to me.

 

The world doesn't revolve around coaster enthusiasts. Most people lose their sh*t over the holding brakes. Valravn's promo video went viral simply for that reason.

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