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The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

P. 630: Knott's Scary Farm 2021 mazes and shows revealed!

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what SFMM has (Twisted Colossus+Coasters I don't really care to ride)

 

To each his own but I think Magic Mountain still completely punishes them in the coaster department. It's not even close. It would help their coaster lineup though which would help solidify Knotts' standing as a more well rounded park than Magic Mountain.

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I don't see where a hyper would go unless it went outside the park. The plot of land you're describing is only about the size of Pony Express. I have a thought, what about a dive coaster? It could be 200 feet, the holding brake makes it totally unique to the entire western half of the United States and it could probably fit in that spot and be very compact. Plus Cedar Fair just bought one at Cedar Point.

 

Sure, and they could call it "Iron Perilous Plunge" maybe.

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They'll do it like Grona Lund in Stocklhom, and literally "fit another coaster on top of everything."

GronaLund2015.jpg.762a06131f60c736e10492e60c01fdd8.jpg

How many coasters can you count there, in Grona Lund?

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what SFMM has (Twisted Colossus+Coasters I don't really care to ride)

 

To each his own but I think Magic Mountain still completely punishes them in the coaster department. It's not even close. It would help their coaster lineup though which would help solidify Knotts' standing as a more well rounded park than Magic Mountain.

 

I personally have a nerdy system to determine - I value a park's "coaster lineup" on how many rank-able coasters they have - basically how many coasters I consider "great" (which, for me are 35 steel and 15 wood at the moment). I don't even bother trying to rank anything less-good than my lowest-ranked coasters (which happen to be Medusa at SFDK, and Lightning Racer).

 

I understand that some people really like the lineup at SFMM - I think they have a lot of decent coasters that don't reach greatness. SFMM has only one coaster that's even good enough for me to rank, TC. Knott's would likely have three if they built a Megalite or Dive Coaster. At least for me, I would choose to visit Knott's over SFMM every day if they added one airtime-focused coaster after opening GR.

 

For reference on my system, some parks have quite excellent coaster lineups:

-BGT has 4 coasters

-CP has 4 (likely more now)

-Hershey has 4

-BGW has 3

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A dive coaster is probably pretty plausible because it would kill two birds with one stone being both a dive coaster and a hyper. I'm still not sure why so many people don't consider Xcelerator a "true" hyper. I get that it's short, but I would like to see something more unique than just building something for the sake of height when Xcelerator is already 200 ft.

 

I really wish that more parks would give the Hyper GTX a shot. They're very low risk and low cost, and I've heard nothing but good things about Lightning Run. I thought for sure these would have popped up everywhere by now because of what they can do in such a small footprint.

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I never question a park's ability to find room...or make room, for that matter. It will be interesting to see how they might fit another coaster on top of everything.

 

I agree. But at the same time is Cedar Fair willing to go that route? Surely they could but its rare to see that particular chain do something like that. I would expect the more conservative "remove things and fit the new ride in that footprint" approach to them since they're already clearing a pretty specific space.

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How about one of those new RMC single rail coasters? T-Rex, or the Raptor track if cost and/or space is a concern. It would be a new type of coaster for the park to brag about, and unique enough to stand out from the rest of the parks coasters.

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How about one of those new RMC single rail coasters? T-Rex, or the Raptor track if cost and/or space is a concern. It would be a new type of coaster for the park to brag about, and unique enough to stand out from the rest of the parks coasters.

 

As much as I would love to see that, I don't see Cedar Fair going with this because they haven't even tried any of RMC's other products yet. If they haven't been willing to go with one of the "proven" models by retrofitting a wooden coaster, the odds are stacked greatly against them going with a brand new prototype model.

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It's also being rumored that Boomerang will finally close and be demolished in the next year or so. That would open up a pretty big plot of land with riptide recently being torn out. Please let it be a new major coaster!!!

 

God, I hope so! Screamscape is reporting it too.

(5/19/16) Knott's Berry Farm Tweeted a picture of one of the new GhostRider coaster trains (GCI Millennium Flyers) and announced that GhostRider will reopen on June 11th. In other news, get your rides in on Boomerang while you still can. I don't know exactly WHEN it may close down, but according to the gossip, Boomerang will be the next major ride to be removed from Knott's over the next couple years. With Ripride already removed, the combined plot from the two attraction could house something as big as the Timber Mountain Log Ride.

 

This is how I've wanted them to redevelop the park to gain space and utilize the real estate! I am hoping they can further improve the Boardwalk atmosphere. The 2013 renovation was great, I hope they can extend that across the whole back half of the park.

 

Here's the space I imagine they may be able to work with:

Yellow: The land occupied by Riptide and Boomerang

Red: The land occupied by Sky Tower, Wipeout, and various food/games buildings. Demolish the Sky Tower like they originally planned for Windseeker.

Orange: Move Wipeout to Windseeker's spot! Kinda like how they moved the Scrambler.

Blue: I don't know what these buildings occupy, but it may be possible to use this space too?

 

First the Blue areas, in addition to Ballroom as was already mentioned, also include an employee restaurant, break room, locker rooms, rest rooms, and a park office.

 

Second, they can't touch Sky Tower or they would have for Windseeker. The "K" atop the tower and it's exact position in the freaking sky are registered historic landmarks. In order for Sky Tower to be removed Knott's would have to find a way to remount the "K" on top of whatever new attraction was built there and in its exact location where it currently sits. The EXACT location on TOP. It can not be off so much a millimeter in any direction up, down, east, west, side to side, etc; nor can any other structure be around it, so it can't be mounted on the side of a coaster lift, for example. It has to be on top visible as a landmark.

 

Thirdly, Knott's and CF CEO Matt Ouimet have reaffirmed that Knott's is a themed family destination with an emphasis on families and history. It is not a coaster thrill destination, it is not meant to rival SFMM or Disneyland. There will likely be no traditional hyper coaster ever built at Knott's in the future, though I could see a dive machine or even a Euro Fighter. Ouimet and park GM Raffi Kaprelyan have both publicly stated that KBF's focus on coasters for the sake of coasters after the CF acquisition, specifically Silver Bullet's destruction of the lagoon, as well as Pony Express was a mistake.

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I know there's a customized one in Vegas, and Steel Hawg in Indiana Beach, but how about

an El Loco in Knott's? It would certainly fit the print, and probably could be customized, too.

 

ElLoco.jpg.e68650e907ec56613d56a10b0a7a208b.jpg

The Basic Model. {This is the one I keep suggesting to Playland(PNE),

as an awesome eventual replacement for Corkscrew!}

ElLocoMumboJumbo_FlamingoLandUK.jpg.82dbead2fa5207dd5328865127e2148f.jpg

EDIT to add: Full Size. (o; What I rode (and loved), in Flamingoland, UK. TPR 2010 UK Tour.

Edited by Nrthwnd
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A dive coaster is probably pretty plausible because it would kill two birds with one stone being both a dive coaster and a hyper. I'm still not sure why so many people don't consider Xcelerator a "true" hyper. I get that it's short, but I would like to see something more unique than just building something for the sake of height when Xcelerator is already 200 ft.

 

I really wish that more parks would give the Hyper GTX a shot. They're very low risk and low cost, and I've heard nothing but good things about Lightning Run. I thought for sure these would have popped up everywhere by now because of what they can do in such a small footprint.

 

Chance's Hyper GTX is much too big for the Boardwalk. Sure it has a small footprint, but it is still big for Knott's. They have to remove the restaurant between Xcelerator and Coast Rider, wrap the layout around Sky Tower and over the flat rides next to CR.

 

I would much rather them remove Xcelerator's figure eight and make the ride longer with inversions like Storm Runner or iSpeed. Think about it, Xcelerator is still going almost 70 mph when it hits the final brake run. What a waste of speed. Use that momentum to create a new coaster without really removing one. The only thing Xcelerator really has going for it is the launch and top hat anyway. All the figure eight does is keep it from being another Monty with a trick.

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I know there's a customized one in Vegas, but how about an El Loco?

It would certainly fit the print, and probably could be customized, too.

 

 

It's funny, because I was just thinking that. It's good from a footprint point of view, and despite one in Vegas, they're still relatively rare. And they also fit into a thrilling, but still mostly family friendly category that makes it a good fit for them.

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^I don't think there would be much comparison by the GP,

if they saw an El Loco standing where Boomerang used to be.

A variation on another mouse coaster is no big deal to me.

 

And actually, these new versions of the mouse, are pretty

boring/tame to myself, compared to the metal rip roaring

originals we used to ride, at carnivals, etc. IMhO

 

EDIT to fix.

Edited by Nrthwnd
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^I don't think there would be much comparison by the GP,

if they saw an El Loco standing where Boomerang used to be.

 

 

I said the comparisons would be with the mouse next to it, not with boomerang itself. You know, Coast Rider?

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First the Blue areas, in addition to Ballroom as was already mentioned, also include an employee restaurant, break room, fluffy, fluffy bunny filled with medicine and goo rooms, rest rooms, and a park office.

 

Second, they can't touch Sky Tower or they would have for Windseeker. The "K" atop the tower and it's exact position in the freaking sky are registered historic landmarks. In order for Sky Tower to be removed Knott's would have to find a way to remount the "K" on top of whatever new attraction was built there and in its exact location where it currently sits. The EXACT location on TOP. It can not be off so much a millimeter in any direction up, down, east, west, side to side, etc; nor can any other structure be around it, so it can't be mounted on the side of a coaster lift, for example. It has to be on top visible as a landmark.

 

Thirdly, Knott's and CF CEO Matt Ouimet have reaffirmed that Knott's is a themed family destination with an emphasis on families and history. It is not a coaster thrill destination, it is not meant to rival SFMM or Disneyland. There will likely be no traditional hyper coaster ever built at Knott's in the future, though I could see a dive machine or even a Euro Fighter. Ouimet and park GM Raffi Kaprelyan have both publicly stated that KBF's focus on coasters for the sake of coasters after the CF acquisition, specifically Silver Bullet's destruction of the lagoon, as well as Pony Express was a mistake.

 

Aside from it being mentioned on wikipedia with no citation, I've never heard that the K is officially a landmark. It's only been there since the 70's, so I'm not exactly sure how it would qualify for landmark status since it really has no historical significance aside from being visible . Realistically, I think they made the change because they realized the logistics of taking down the tower and then adding a new one didn't really make much sense.

 

Parks also need balance. Families and history are great, but families also have kids that grow up. Even the Knott's family had to buy the best thrills they could afford to stay competitive (Monte, Boomerang, GhostRider, and even the ill-fated Windjammer).

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What do you think? Is it worth getting Fast Lane passes for our trip to Knott's on June 23rd? And is it likely to sell out at the gates?

 

Thursdays aren't as busy as Sat or Sun, but Fast lane is probably a good idea for summer season. Make sure to check out all the new entertainment shows as well as the rides (which Fast lane will help give you more time for).

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Throughout their history, Knott's has always balanced thrills with family friendly attractions. Knott's had the first inverting steel coaster (Corkscrew) and one of the first Schwarzkopf shuttle loops (Montezooma). Both of those coasters were pretty revolutionary when they were built. Ghostrider is the longest, fastest woodie on the West Coast, Xcelerator was the first Intamin accelerator coaster, and Surpreme Scream was the tallest drop tower when it opened. So to say that a Hyper coaster or a dive machine doesn't fit at Knott's really isn't true.

 

I think the current leadership has done a great job over the last few with rehabbing classics (TMLR, Mine Ride, GhostRider), adding family friendly attractions (Coast Rider, Iron Reef), and revamping Camp Snoopy. But it's time they added a new thrill coaster like a B&M Hyper or a dive machine. This is especially true if they get rid of Boomerang. I know a lot of enthusiasts hate on Boomerang, but the ride is still very popular and is a nice step up coaster as kids get older.

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