The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[Calicoasters]

I fixed my post... You were judging the father.

[YoshiFan]

Anyone know if Dragster and KK are open today? I can't imagine they would be, especially Dragster.

 

KK was open both days this weekend. I was also surprised it was open and originally wasn't going to ride until we find out what happened with Xcelerator but I couldn't pass up a walk on.

[themeparkman25]

^Correlation does not mean causation.

[RCFreak]

I fixed my post... You were judging the father.

 

Yes I was, and the father was not injured, He was trying to signal the ride ops that his kid was hurt in a way I would personally not react but you don't care about that. From my experience, I know there's nothing that can be done as the ride would have e-stopped itself meaning the whole ride has to be reset in order for anything to move at all. That's not including if there was any physical damage to the train itself preventing it from moving past where it came to a stop. There was some damage to the train itself so who knows the extent of how bad it really was.

 

And it's not like the ops didn't know the ride broke, again the ride will e-stop itself, and the sound of a cable snapping on an accelerator is horrible and very loud so the people on the midway, if any, would have heard as well. If it were me in this situation I would have called back out to the ops that we needed medical assistance in a much more calm manner as they were not far out of the station, as I'm not the type of person to freak out. Perhaps a downfall of mine (one of many I know) but I blame my judgmentalness on being a Spanish Catholic Woman (yes that was a joke again I laugh at inappropriate times).

[Jew]

^I actually agree with Calicoasters. Being an "armchair quarterback" about a situation is a lot easier than actually being there. You may very well react exactly how you say, but it's hard to fault a father for doing what he thought was best to get the staffs attention after only knowing that he heard a really loud noise, he and his kid were hit with pieces of metal, and the ride was definitely not doing what it was supposed to be doing.

[RCFreak]

lol but I never said he couldn't react that way all I'm saying is that I wouldn't based on having more experience in this situation.

[Calicoasters]

^It's the fact that people are talking about their reactions that bothers me. The video is on the internet, the damage is done... You want to talk about the ride, the accident, how you think it could have been prevented, how this accident affects the way you feel about ride safety, ect... FINE!

 

Don't involve your self with innocent people that don't deserve any of this!

 

If you ran into the father in person out on the streets would say, (Example) "I saw the video on the internet and the news, I just wanted to tell you what I would have done differently." I have to say, I don't think you would, and saying it here isn't any better!

 

Like I said earlier, I hate that this video was put on the internet and then picked up by the media because these people don't deserve to have their experience public for everyone to see.

[rctman]

I fixed my post... You were judging the father.

 

Yes I was, and the father was not injured, He was trying to signal the ride ops that his kid was hurt in a way I would personally not react but you don't care about that. From my experience, I know there's nothing that can be done as the ride would have e-stopped itself meaning the whole ride has to be reset in order for anything to move at all. That's not including if there was any physical damage to the train itself preventing it from moving past where it came to a stop. There was some damage to the train itself so who knows the extent of how bad it really was.

 

And it's not like the ops didn't know the ride broke, again the ride will e-stop itself, and the sound of a cable snapping on an accelerator is horrible and very loud so the people on the midway, if any, would have heard as well. If it were me in this situation I would have called back out to the ops that we needed medical assistance in a much more calm manner as they were not far out of the station, as I'm not the type of person to freak out. Perhaps a downfall of mine (one of many I know) but I blame my judgmentalness on being a Spanish Catholic Woman (yes that was a joke again I laugh at inappropriate times).

 

I don't think the e-stop exactly worked out too well when smoke is shooting off and the train is passing by the damaged cable, while the kids seat is being popped out of place. I guess if I were to be involved in an accident with metal shards flying at my eyes and having a lacerated leg, I should stay calm and wait for the ride attendant to assist me while sitting in a pile of smoke. Just saying.

[RCFreak]

E-stopped worked exactly as it was designed, it cut all power to the brakes forcing them to pop up and slowed the train down before it hit the block before it. In this case it was passed (or on) the damaged section of the cable/launch sled which has nothing to do with the smoke or the kids seat being misaligned.

 

And if you can make it without freaking out then more power to you. And if not I'll make fun of you on the internet.

[Imhotep]

I think I would have definitely reacted the way they did.. They looked like their skin was burning or severly itching from the metal peices, I dont think I could sit there and be calm, thats for sure.

 

At the end of the day, fortunately there were no injuries. Intamin really needs to look into these cable snaps.. I think they would be inclined to do so even if it is the parks fault, because no matter who is at fault it still looks bad for them.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

I can tell just from this video alone that major damage was sustained to the launch. The brake fins on the launch are not designed to stop a train even in an emergency situation. They are designed to slow a train to return it to the station. The fact that the train not only stopped outside the station, but SLAMMED to a stop outside the station is inclination that more than just the cable was affected. I can't say much about this incident, but I can tell you that if the DOSH report ever becomes public record, it'll be a very interesting story to tell...

[BeemerBoy]

^I know that on Aircraft carriers, at least for the landing cable, they replace them every like 100 landings to prevent a cable snap. But they have to be much more cautious with those as they will literally cut you in half if they snap.

 

They're probably a lot less concerned about the cables snapping a few crew members in half as they are that the $40 million dollar plane (potentially with a full payload) will veer out of control, crash, and cause a massive explosion. And with fire being the worst case scenario at sea, nonetheless on a nuclear powered vessel, those cables better work.

 

Also, comparing the Intamin rocket cables with a carrier is a HUGE stretch (no pun intended). The reason the carrier cables are switched out as often as they are is primarily twofold. For one, I believe those arresting cables are not one whole piece. If I remember correctly, the cable that the tail hook catches is actually just the center portion which sits on deck.

 

That portion is connected on either end to the two other sections on either side of the runway which lead below deck to the arresting wire engines which allow "pay out" of the cables. So basically, that small portion of arresting cable is designed to be switched out in a matter of minutes. Not so with any of the rocket coasters.

 

There's also up to four arresting wires on each carrier deck. The best pilots consistently hit the 3rd wire in.

 

And the other main reason they need to be replaced so often is because they're constantly being drug across a non-skid deck with tremendous force. That wears them out much quicker.

[SuperMikeo]

E-stopped worked exactly as it was designed, it cut all power to the brakes forcing them to pop up and slowed the train down before it hit the block before it. In this case it was passed (or on) the damaged section of the cable/launch sled which has nothing to do with the smoke or the kids seat being misaligned.

 

And if you can make it without freaking out then more power to you. And if not I'll make fun of you on the internet.

 

WTF???? Dude, you do NOT know what happened. You don't. So just stop. While I am sure that your friends/family are certainly impressed with your knowledge of coasters and your ability to watch 1 minute silent videos and makes judgments, a lot of people are not. Myself included.

 

I have seen Xcelerator rollback tons of times and have never seen the freakin' seat move and smoke come out! So just stop with your "I am an expert and can stay calm" crap. Guaranteed this is traumatic for these people, so have a little respect, or restraint or something. You're really sounding like a douche.

[Imhotep]

Come on guys, lets not get all riled up!

 

If the E-Stop did 'exactly what it was supposed to do,' then Intamin needs to go back to the drawing board.

[CorkscrewFoley]

I can tell just from this video alone that major damage was sustained to the launch. The brake fins on the launch are not designed to stop a train even in an emergency situation. They are designed to slow a train to return it to the station. The fact that the train not only stopped outside the station, but SLAMMED to a stop outside the station is inclination that more than just the cable was affected. I can't say much about this incident, but I can tell you that if the DOSH report ever becomes public record, it'll be a very interesting story to tell...

 

Could that what caused the seat to pop out? As for the ride itself, I would still ride it, or any Intamin accelerator with the cable. It's too bad they can't find a way to keep the cable covered, but if the cable snapped, it could still be accessed easily.

 

Bring back the big, loud Schwarzkopf flywheel/weight drop launches.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

You can't really cover the catch car trough, because then there'd be no way for it to connect to the train...and even so, with the force the cable has on it mid launch, it would just shred through te covering anyway...

 

^I can't say that's truly what happened, but I used to work that ride. The launch is at an upward angle which is designed for rollback situations-for the rollback to return to the station. The magnetic brake fins do not have enough polarity to stop a train. Eddy current brakes, which is what Xcelerator uses, CANNOT stop a train ANYWHERE (including the station) on the ride. Even in the brake block towards the end of the ride, the brakes slow the train to the drive tires, which serve as skid brakes. Why this train stopped outside the station is a perplexing mystery, but I assure whatever DID stop this train was also the cause of the smoke, and the reason I believe more than just the cable was damaged and why this ride won't be operational for some time.

[pkdcoaster]

Thats a pretty intense video.

 

I have a hard time blaming Intamin on this one though.

Xcelerator has run pretty much daily since 2002 and thats alot of cycles. The ride has run perfectly fine up till last week. so thats over 7 years ago Intamin turned it over to the park and I believe it is the Park Maintenance Dept that is responsible for the cable's integrity.

It is not Intamin's job to go out there and check it daily/weekly etc.

 

Anybody think that it might not have been the cable? Maybe the pully collapsed or the cable tray cracked and frayed the wire at that speed.

 

hell maybe the water was turned off to keep the cable tray cool.

 

Just some of my thoughts, glad there were no serious injuries.

 

JEFF

[rctman]

E-stopped worked exactly as it was designed, it cut all power to the brakes forcing them to pop up and slowed the train down before it hit the block before it. In this case it was passed (or on) the damaged section of the cable/launch sled which has nothing to do with the smoke or the kids seat being misaligned.

 

And if you can make it without freaking out then more power to you. And if not I'll make fun of you on the internet.

 

So if you had debris falling on your face you would just sit there and remain calm while trying to dodge losing an eye?

 

ADMIN EDIT: It's OK to disagree. Name calling, however, is not. Please keep this conversation civil. Thank you.

Chuck

[CorkscrewFoley]

I saw the video a few more times, there didn't appear to be any blood, and the kid's eyes were closed pretty quick.

 

By the way B&M, I had forgot about the catch car. Thank you.

[AllenA07]

As far as people talking about their reaction I agree that it would be difficult if you were not in the situation. It does appear from the video that the kid is freaking out, and it is very possible that the father was unaware of how badly his child was injured. Not to mention that they were on the ride, they know something serious occurred, and they know that they're hurt. A few months ago I shattered a large glass candle holder, right after it happened I was a bit freaked out (it broke behind me and glass rained over where I was sitting) and found myself trying to franticly brush glass off me and figure out my injuries. In the end I only had a scratch on my hand, but still when you've got a foreign material all over you, it's natural to want to get it off, not to mention that the fragments were likely hot from friction.

 

I am very interested in why the seat popped loose, I'm pretty sure that's not meant to happen in any circumstance. It'll be interesting to see if that is looked into in more depth and see what the cause was. It does appear that the train did slam to a stop, and I'm sure the partial seat failure is a result of that. If the train can't actually by physically stopped by the brake fins, then we have to assume that something was there that physically forced the train to stop, this would be a good bet to be the cause of the smoke.

 

As always I'm interested in the legal ramifications of this incident. The roller coaster enthusiast inside of me says that if you are going to the park you take on inherent responsibilities of danger and so on and so forth. However the lawyer side of me (which ultimately is the bigger side) tells me that if it were me I'd sue both Knott's and Intamin for the incident. Always the best strategy is to sue as many parties as possible in order to increase your chances of recovery.

[rctman]

They should sue, they have that right and should be compensated for. Accidents happen yes, fatal accidents at theme parks in America shouldn't though. That could have been fatal, one death or one major injury, is one too many. I hope Knotts/CF/Intamin resolve this issue ASAP, but they need to know they dodged a bullet. With every accident it hurts the industry just a little more.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

Had this happened in say...July, with a fully loade train, I'm sure the results may have been more severe, and thank God they weren't.

[themeparkman25]

AllenA07- Would it be beneficial to sue both the park and Intamin, or just sue the park and let the park sue Intamin? That is what happened with SFKK's incident, right? The family sued the park (though settled outside of court) and the park returned by sueing Intamin. Just a thought.

 

rctman- Fatalities shouldn't happen anywhere in the world, not just the US. Think about Invertigo, that single incident was heard around the world. A death on a coaster in China or Europe would have just as significant as an effect here in America.

[cgodsey]

There is no question that how the train came to a stop was result of the cable snapping. I would bet the catch car came out of its housing and that is what the train hit. Also, those fins dont completely stop the train but they bring it very close to stopping. Anyone ever seen a rollback train come back to the station? I saw TTDs do this and it took about 5-10 mins for the train to make it back to the station it was moving so slow.

 

This is pretty serious business even though some don't want to admit it. You cannot tell me that all of you won't be thinking about this incident the next time you ride TTD or another Intamin hydro launcher.

[Crazy4Coasters!]

I'm really trying to be optimistic but I can't seem to see Xcelerator opening even after Haunt. I really hope I'm wrong and they get it up and running again but my gut is saying otherwise.