The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[jarmor]

22 minutes ago, Mike240SX said:

Given that each schematic shows different rides, gonna say that this is far from confirmed and still in the exploratory phase.  But hey, if I'm wrong, awesome.

Considering one says "initial proposal  for reference only" and dated 05/21 and the current states "KBF expansion project and dated 10/21, I would think they have done all the exploring they need to.

[JJLehto]

As epic as this would be I'd almost be sad because it'd mean the 10 (+??) year meme of "Knott's getting a giga!" would end. But it would be cool. 

I also reckon the usual issues (space, noise, will it be considered an eye sore with locals and CAs very strong local rights that can block anything if people dont like it) will arise but I HOPE this is true because having a giga just smack in the middle of a city would be crazy! And it would be a great W for KBF them getting CA's first giga not SFMM lol

[CedarFlags]

35 minutes ago, JJLehto said:

As epic as this would be I'd almost be sad because it'd mean the 10 (+??) year meme of "Knott's getting a giga!" would end. But it would be cool. 

This is why I'm absolutely losing my mind over this being very possibly real.  The joke of a KBF Giga was like a secret handshake for online enthusiasts.

[JJLehto]

I still am treating this like the last Tool album, ignore the "this is the year" every 2-3 years and just forget about it till one day it's there lol 

Also I'm not gunna try to gleam anything from those pics this is just riffing (given KBF isnt that big/spacious) imagine if its more a twister Fury style giga...what a way for KBF to finally get their giga! I kinda hope so. 

[boldikus]

9 hours ago, CedarFlags said:

The joke of a KBF Giga was like a secret handshake for online enthusiasts.

[grsupercity]

Sorry VF, MIA, Dor, Wof and CFGAM all your allocated budget is going to Knotts.

[jarmor]

SO with the minor backstage changes and the major parking lot changes this seems more like a 2023 project right?  Now we wait until someone does a nolimits rendition of the layout because reading the numbers, it seems to be a mix of low and high elements!

[thrillseeker4552]

I am losing my mind over this. Wow. They didn’t even remotely have to go this large - I would’ve been stoked with a mini-B&M Hyper. This is insane.

Honestly, I think this will be great for Knott’s. I went to the park yesterday and it was the busiest I have ever seen the park in my almost 20 years of going. They REALLY need a high capacity, people-eater coaster that is reliable and spreads out crowds more, which this will.

I also have a feeling this will be constructed in phases. Perhaps the parking structure and toll booth reconfiguration will happen first, so that when they tear up the parking lot for the coaster they can already compensate for the mess of construction. Probably 2023 or 2024 but the park is year-round and has historically opened some rides in December so they can really do whatever timeline they wish and makes sense from a business perspective.

I was always skeptical of this ride (and still am *a little*) but for me, seeing plans really solidifies things. It happened with every other B&M Cedar Fair adds - we see the plans and it eventually becomes a reality. But there are likely lots of hoops to jump through for this from a permitting/approval standpoint so who really knows.

[VegasBaby]

4 minutes ago, thrillseeker4552 said:

I am losing my mind over this. Wow. They didn’t even remotely have to go this large - I would’ve been stoked with a mini-B&M Hyper. This is insane.

Honestly, I think this will be great for Knott’s. I went to the park yesterday and it was the busiest I have ever seen the park in my almost 20 years of going. They REALLY need a high capacity, people-eater coaster that is reliable and spreads out crowds more, which this will.

I also have a feeling this will be constructed in phases. Perhaps the parking structure and toll booth reconfiguration will happen first, so that when they tear up the parking lot for the coaster they can already compensate for the mess of construction. Probably 2023 or 2024 but the park is year-round and has historically opened some rides in December so they can really do whatever timeline they wish and makes sense from a business perspective.

I was always skeptical of this ride (and still am *a little*) but for me, seeing plans really solidifies things. It happened with every other B&M Cedar Fair adds - we see the plans and it eventually becomes a reality. But there are likely lots of hoops to jump through for this from a permitting/approval standpoint so who really knows.

I couldn't agree more, Knott's has just gotten more and more popular over the years, which has led to increasingly long lines.  The only "people-eater" they really have is Silver Bullet, so another high capacity ride would be a huge boon to the park.  Knott's is CF's highest revenue park, so it makes sense for an investment of this magnitude.  I think CF also sees an opportunity to grab former Disney passholders who have become disillusioned by Disney's new policies.

[swfan1988]

I think I'm gonna take the pessimist position and say that this isn't gonna happen, either in this form or at all. For the record (just to be perfectly clear): I would LOVE for this to happen. I just don't think it's gonna.

I think the concept is cool, although the idea of a giga coaster in a parking lot doesn't sound all that interesting to me...

I think two things are gonna doom this project (at least in this form): Cost and Neighbors.

The cost for this is already gonna be huge, and yes while CF is ok spending lots of money on big projects, how big are they gonna want to go? Knott's is no Cedar Point or Kings Island (in terms of market demographics and guest expectations), and has far more intense competition than probably any other park in the chain. The SoCal market also isn't growing at the rate of Charlette or Texas. CA also has big regulations on earthquakes and other building codes, and if  I remember correctly that's what killed the CGA hyper project... So the question would be how much does CF want to put into Knott's, and if costs start to rise do/when do they change course or pull the plug? I don't the ride is prohibitively expensive, I just think that cost might change the plans from what we have now.

Secondly, is the neighbors. Correct me if I'm wrong but Knott's.is basically on the middle of a neighborhood. And even I might have a problem with a giant B&M giga smack dab in the middle of it all. If the neighbors cause the park to add the tunnel to Ghost Rider, and to use a hydraulic launch for Xcelerator (and they complain about EVERY Disney expansion proposal) how are they gonna react to this thing?

So I think that either: A) This gets cut to a hyper of some sort for like 2026ish timeframe, or B) It doesn't happen, at least not in the immediate future. Again, as much as I'd LOVE to see it happen. I wouldn't be bummed with a B&M Hyper either since anything in that department west if the Mississippi is missing and sorely needed.

[jarmor]

Lol, I don't think you know how this works.  You think the park will so everything it takes to design, present a plan to go back and say nevermind it cost too much?!?  You know they do not wake up and say lets build a coaster.  These type of projects are years in the making and funds are SECURED before planning even starts so get out of the disney frame of mind and take it down a notch to typical parks  lol. and if you see the design plan, there will be no more parking lot but green space in the place the coaster will go. I am sure the pandemic has halted and change some capital expenditures of lots of parks I do also feel we are at the end and parks see people are coming so nothing will really kill this project.

[CedarFlags]

14 minutes ago, swfan1988 said:

I think I'm gonna take the pessimist position and say that this isn't gonna happen, either in this form or at all. For the record (just to be perfectly clear): I would LOVE for this to happen. I just don't think it's gonna.

I think the concept is cool, although the idea of a giga coaster in a parking lot doesn't sound all that interesting to me...

I think two things are gonna doom this project (at least in this form): Cost and Neighbors.

The cost for this is already gonna be huge, and yes while CF is ok spending lots of money on big projects, how big are they gonna want to go? Knott's is no Cedar Point or Kings Island (in terms of market demographics and guest expectations), and has far more intense competition than probably any other park in the chain. The SoCal market also isn't growing at the rate of Charlette or Texas. CA also has big regulations on earthquakes and other building codes, and if  I remember correctly that's what killed the CGA hyper project... So the question would be how much does CF want to put into Knott's, and if costs start to rise do/when do they change course or pull the plug? I don't the ride is prohibitively expensive, I just think that cost might change the plans from what we have now.

Secondly, is the neighbors. Correct me if I'm wrong but Knott's.is basically on the middle of a neighborhood. And even I might have a problem with a giant B&M giga smack dab in the middle of it all. If the neighbors cause the park to add the tunnel to Ghost Rider, and to use a hydraulic launch for Xcelerator (and they complain about EVERY Disney expansion proposal) how are they gonna react to this thing?

So I think that either: A) This gets cut to a hyper of some sort for like 2026ish timeframe, or B) It doesn't happen, at least not in the immediate future. Again, as much as I'd LOVE to see it happen. I wouldn't be bummed with a B&M Hyper either since anything in that department west if the Mississippi is missing and sorely needed.

You're right that it is a MASSIVE investment and if it all happens, I don't see this opening until 2023 or possibly 2024.  It's essentially 3 entire projects rolled into one... the expansion inside the park, the coaster, and the parking lot re-do.  It might already be a hyper... I think it would be more likely to get something in the 250 range that can be marketed as the tallest coaster in the West.  Would save some money and be essentially the same marketing angle as if it was 300 ft. 

As far as noise... the Ghostrider tunnel was actually added because of noise complaints from Hotel guests.  And this plan shows a new parking structure going in place between the Hotel and the ride, so I think that would probably help deflect some noise.  Plus they would probably opt for the filled-track like on Silver Bullet which eliminates the roaring noise.  Also, the first drop appears to be a reasonable distance from the property line, so that should help with neighbors.

[jarmor]

3 minutes ago, CedarFlags said:

  Would save some money and be essentially the same marketing angle as if it was 300 ft. 

 

i'm curious, How much money do you think it will actually save to cut the coaster by 75ft??? 

 

To put things into prospective, Carowinds removed their go karts, relocated their sky flyer, demolished their front gate, graded the entrance to be less of a hill, created a new state of the art front gate, built a new parking toll, redirected the parking traffic, AND built the tallest Giga coaster at the same time ALL without having to cut or scale back anything.

[coasterbill]

The one legitimate potential issue in all of that is the neighbors. I mean... you are looking at a giant element, probably hundreds of feet in the air immediately across the street from these houses.

The only other rides in the park this close to residential homes are Pony Express where the turnaround is in a noise-reducing tunnel and the rapids ride which isn't loud. I know the argument is "You bought a house next to a theme park, f*ck you but the people on the end of Santa Domingo way / Santa Valera Street are currently a solid 3-4 blocks from any ride that would make any meaningful amount of noise. Now they're going to be so close to a turnaround that loose articles will probably occasionally end up in their yard without some type of shield, though I would expect something like this on that turnaround.

I feel like it's inevitable that they'll fight this. They may not win, but I wouldn't be shocked if this gets hung up for awhile.

[RideThroughTime]

32 minutes ago, jarmor said:

Lol, I don't think you know how this works.  You think the park will so everything it takes to design, present a plan to go back and say nevermind it cost too much?!?  You know they do not wake up and say lets build a coaster.  These type of projects are years in the making and funds are SECURED before planning even starts so get out of the disney frame of mind and take it down a notch to typical parks  lol. and if you see the design plan, there will be no more parking lot but green space in the place the coaster will go. I am sure the pandemic has halted and change some capital expenditures of lots of parks I do also feel we are at the end and parks see people are coming so nothing will really kill this project.

It's happened before. Megabyte at California's Great America was designed and named, and even had the trains purchased for it, only for Cedar Fair to realize the actual cost to build it exceeded the $31 million budget they had signed the contract on. That being said, I wouldn't expect Cedar Fair to repeat the same mistake twice.

[Animal]

Amazing news!!! Always have kept the faith that this will happen and now we’re one step closer!!! 
 

Im still a little confused exactly where in the park the station will be located?? What will need to be removed in park and is Mystery Lodge safe now?

[swfan1988]

50 minutes ago, jarmor said:

Lol, I don't think you know how this works.  You think the park will so everything it takes to design, present a plan to go back and say nevermind it cost too much?!?  You know they do not wake up and say lets build a coaster.  These type of projects are years in the making and funds are SECURED before planning even starts so get out of the disney frame of mind and take it down a notch to typical parks. 

Um, I'm not a Disney fanboy so I'm not sure where that came from...I don't think my home park (Silverwood) has ever spent more than maybe 12 million (and that's being generous) on any one thing in the 34 year history of the park, so I get that "not every park has a Disney budget". And I understand that things are planned in advance and given budgets.

My point on cost was that budget cuts and cost overruns DO happen. If the initial planning and budget for the ride was say (I'm using totally hypothetical numbers!) 35-40 million, but after adding in permitting, complaints/litigation from neighbors, inflation, changes in steel prices, whatever sh*t comes/might come up, etc. the projected cost may  rise to say 45-50 million, Cedar Fair may choose to make changes to the plan such as changing the height or length or whatever in order to bring the costs back in line with what they had planned on and budgeted for. We don't even know what the budget for this project is/was, we just have something of a layout.

Even with this point, I don't think that would lead to the projects cancellation (or I guess "relocation") like with Megabyte at CGA. I think rather that it would lead to the project being downsized a little, or modified to lower the cost. Especially since I think a ride in the mold of a hyper would work well at Knott's, and I think Cedar Fair knows this as well.

[jarmor]

First, I didn't call you a disney fanboy, I said the disney frame of mind in the sense that they announce things 20 years out and it never comes into fruition.  I cannot grasp the concept that since you think a ride in the mold of a hyper would work well at Knott's and you THINK cedar fair knows that as well, why would they go and design a giga instead lol?!?!?  I cannot think of one project that had PLANS SUBMITTED, note I said plans submitted without having all aspects of cost covered, including permits, inflation (which should not matter if you agreed to one price and signed a contract for it).  I feel we are past all the things you're talking about and now just waiting for final approvals and construction.  I know of one coaster that had to make drastic changes to the layout after construction and that was Tenn Tornado and that was damn near 20 years ago.

[BotanicalStig]

^you can't think of a single plan that has ever been canceled? Cedar fair should be able to afford this, but who the hell cares. Plans get canceled all of the time. Maybe I'm missing something, but why are you getting your panties twisted over this. 

 

Can't freaking wait for this announcement. I love this park so much, and this coaster will be an awesome addition! 

[Nrthwnd]

Well, it's nice to know, that when I finally get back to Knott's in a few years, a new coaster of some kind/make/model will be open by then.

[jarmor]

Quote

^you can't think of a single plan that has ever been canceled? Cedar fair should be able to afford this, but who the hell cares. Plans get canceled all of the time. Maybe I'm missing something, but why are you getting your panties twisted over this. 

 

Can't freaking wait for this announcement. I love this park so much, and this coaster will be an awesome addition! 

don't know if you are aware but this is a discussion board where you. . . discuss.  You are missing something, the fact that this is a place to discuss things, and in this particular thread, discuss all things Knotts.  Hopefully that helped. . .

 

No, I cannot think if a single plan, in recent years, that have had plans submitted for the project and it abruptly got canceled for any of the reason being mention here outside of things that have been placed on hold due to the pandemic.   Of course you are at your leisure to name some and help refresh my memory, but you'd rather assume my panties are in a bunch, as if I wear underwear in the first place. . .

[boldikus]

Is there something that directly points to B&M? Serious question. Could this maybe be a Mack or Intamin? (You can't answer with CF doesn't work with Intamin)

[coasternut]

I too would really love this to happen. There are 2 reasons why it won't.

1. NEIGHBORS

2. IT'S IN CALIFORNIA

 

[jarmor]

14 minutes ago, boldikus said:

Is there something that directly points to B&M? Serious question. Could this maybe be a Mack or Intamin? (You can't answer with CF doesn't work with Intamin)

I would say aside from the fact that we know CF works with B&M for their largest coasters (note, this is not anything exclusive just how it has been asided from 305 in recent years), it's the supports for me as well as the placement of the transfer track and the layout.  It's literally looking like an extended Fury 325.

[kbfbest]

58 minutes ago, boldikus said:

Is there something that directly points to B&M? Serious question. Could this maybe be a Mack or Intamin? (You can't answer with CF doesn't work with Intamin)

Cedar Fair might work with Intamin but look at what Intamin rides Knotts had/has Xcelerator, Sky Cabin, Calico River Rapids, Perilous Plunge.... A few of them have been nothing but trouble for Knotts. I would really hope to see this happen since knotts has had a few big coasters taken away from them just like CGA just did.