The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[Rusty Nail]

Does Ghostrider even have a third train?

[thrillseeker4552]

Does Ghostrider even have a third train?

 

They have three trains so they can cycle one through maintenance, but can only ever run two at a time since the removal of the block brake.

[firebird81]

they could only run two at a time before removing the block brake, as well. The block brake ruins the second half of the ride.

[ABW]

^Unless you know something we don't, I don't think so. My understanding is it was a case where they COULD HAVE run three trains whenever they wanted to, it just didn't make sense most of the time, and with a third train always in maintenance, it was always unrealistic, but not impossible. Now with the removal of that block brake, it is not even possible. But again, I can't stress this enough, don't re-install any form of a block brake please!

[Jew]

No block brake! Ghostrider is slow because of all the people who they routinely add in every single ride from the exit side. Every train has to unload, then wait for everyone to clear out before they allow the people on the exit side to choose their seats. Then and ONLY then do the people waiting in line actually get to board the train. I'm not sure what the story is with all the exit side riders, but they aren't the fastpass people, those guys come thru the same side as everyone else. I think most of them are people who went to the bathroom instead of waiting in line. Ghostrider never had this problem before the block brakes were installed in the past. But these days there are times where you will think the ride has broken down because its so long before a train leaves the station.

 

THIS!

 

I have never seen more "disability" passes on any other ride. I don't know why GhostRider always has so many, but it's so incredibly annoying. I understand the use of a disability pass, and when one person who is truly disabled brings along a friend or something and they really can't stand in line, of course I understand, and that is perfectly acceptable and they have every right to do so. I hate it when one barely-disabled person brings 15 other people with them and fill up half the train almost every cycle. I swear, I don't know what it is about GhostRider, but it BY FAR has the most "exit" people.

 

I don't think the lack of a block brake is the issue. The ride's capacity would be fine (not great, but fine) if there were fewer people at the exit, people were faster at putting stuff in the bins, employees had more motivation, and if there was a single rider line.

 

There is so much more that goes into a ride's capacity and throughput than how many trains they run.

 

Knotts would be the defendant in a lot of lawsuits if they just assumed someone was "barely disabled". Parks are limited by what they can do and be in compliance with the ADA. The best alternative would to be to issue return time passes, since that is equal accommodation.

[thrillseeker4552]

No block brake! Ghostrider is slow because of all the people who they routinely add in every single ride from the exit side. Every train has to unload, then wait for everyone to clear out before they allow the people on the exit side to choose their seats. Then and ONLY then do the people waiting in line actually get to board the train. I'm not sure what the story is with all the exit side riders, but they aren't the fastpass people, those guys come thru the same side as everyone else. I think most of them are people who went to the bathroom instead of waiting in line. Ghostrider never had this problem before the block brakes were installed in the past. But these days there are times where you will think the ride has broken down because its so long before a train leaves the station.

 

THIS!

 

I have never seen more "disability" passes on any other ride. I don't know why GhostRider always has so many, but it's so incredibly annoying. I understand the use of a disability pass, and when one person who is truly disabled brings along a friend or something and they really can't stand in line, of course I understand, and that is perfectly acceptable and they have every right to do so. I hate it when one barely-disabled person brings 15 other people with them and fill up half the train almost every cycle. I swear, I don't know what it is about GhostRider, but it BY FAR has the most "exit" people.

 

I don't think the lack of a block brake is the issue. The ride's capacity would be fine (not great, but fine) if there were fewer people at the exit, people were faster at putting stuff in the bins, employees had more motivation, and if there was a single rider line.

 

There is so much more that goes into a ride's capacity and throughput than how many trains they run.

 

Knotts would be the defendant in a lot of lawsuits if they just assumed someone was "barely disabled". Parks are limited by what they can do and be in compliance with the ADA. The best alternative would to be to issue return time passes, since that is equal accommodation.

 

I guess I should have been more clear. I'm not bothered by "barely disabled" people going up the exit. I'm bothered by the huge numbers of guests they bring with them. Like I said, when one disabled person, regardless of severity, goes up the exit with one or two other people, it's not an issue. It's when they bring their entire extended family with them and fill up several rows on the train it gets annoying.

[firebird81]

^Unless you know something we don't, I don't think so. My understanding is it was a case where they COULD HAVE run three trains whenever they wanted to, it just didn't make sense most of the time, and with a third train always in maintenance, it was always unrealistic, but not impossible. Now with the removal of that block brake, it is not even possible. But again, I can't stress this enough, don't re-install any form of a block brake please!

Well, I know they didn't originally have that block brake for several years, so taking it away now wouldn't make the ride run any slower than originally designed.. It was only added after the ride started getting too rough for folks. They always technically could have run three trains, but it never increased capacity.

[firebird81]

double post

[JeromyL]

Back to the Construction pit talk... thought it would be cool if knotts got a ride from Mack like "Lost Gravity"... that looks fun

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[DoubleDown]

^I would be thrilled with the smaller version single rail RMC is installing at Fiesta Texas. I think it's capacity could be on par with Xcelerator.

 

I may be mistaken, but isn't there an elevator on the queue side of Ghostrider, to allow those with disabilities access to the ride platform? And doesn't the Ghostrider exit have a HUGE tall series of stairs on the exit side? So the queue side of the line is disability accessible, but it's just not being used? And people voluntarily hustle up that huge flight of stairs, but can't wait in line? Kinda unorthodox if you ask me.

 

I've never understood the immediately accommodating "go through the exit" mentality of these passes. If people are able to ride, and are provided a wheelchair, with accessibility for said wheelchair in the queue...why can't they wait in line?

 

Or like Jew said there needs to be a time allotment based on the length of the line. They can go run up the exit stairs with a pass, but you're gonna have to wait an hour and a half until you can get on the ride.

[CaptainUnknown]

I may be mistaken, but isn't there an elevator on the queue side of Ghostrider, to allow those with disabilities access to the ride platform? And doesn't the Ghostrider exit have a HUGE tall series of stairs on the exit side? So the queue side of the line is disability accessible, but it's just not being used? And people voluntarily hustle up that huge flight of stairs, but can't wait in line? Kinda unorthodox if you ask me.

 

I've never understood the immediately accommodating "go through the exit" mentality of these passes. If people are able to ride, and are provided a wheelchair, with accessibility for said wheelchair in the queue...why can't they wait in line?

 

Or like Jew said there needs to be a time allotment based on the length of the line. They can go run up the exit stairs with a pass, but you're gonna have to wait an hour and a half until you can get on the ride.

 

Because most queue lines are not accessible. Last week, a buddy of mine had to deal with an amputee in a wheelchair in our standby, and unfortunately, we had to make him go back through the full queue and through our exit ramp because he couldn't get his chair through the turnstile.

 

As for the elevators, (while I have never used or operated one) I believe that they're only for those in wheelchairs and operated from the platform.

 

And yes, we make them wait. The group goes to guest services who gives them an alternate access form. This form is then brought up either the ride exit or the fast lane (usually whichever the guest finds first) and the operator gives the group (up to 4) a return time, which is approximately equal to how long they'd wait if they had joined the standby line. These passes can be given to those with a physical or mental disability that for whatever reason, grants them a legitimate reason not to wait in the standby queue.

 

**Disclaimer** All my information is from Valleyfair experience. KBF may do it slightly different.

[singemfrc]

Have you seen any mention of a WCB for 2017?

Yes, in the thread about why they don't do public trips other than WCB anymore it came up and Robb mentioned that they are busy during the usual time this year but they are still planning on doing one, I'm guessing later than usual because we'd probably know already if it was earlier. I'm looking forward to it and it will be nice to do it during a different (cooler?) part of the year.

 

Oh here it is, I found his post. It was posted on 4/25.

We ARE still doing West Coast Bash! That is totally in the plans! This year is a little more tricky because the dates we normally do WCB we are going to be in Germany for Oktoberfest. So we hope we can make it work. But yes, WCB is still 100% on!

[Jew]

No block brake! Ghostrider is slow because of all the people who they routinely add in every single ride from the exit side. Every train has to unload, then wait for everyone to clear out before they allow the people on the exit side to choose their seats. Then and ONLY then do the people waiting in line actually get to board the train. I'm not sure what the story is with all the exit side riders, but they aren't the fastpass people, those guys come thru the same side as everyone else. I think most of them are people who went to the bathroom instead of waiting in line. Ghostrider never had this problem before the block brakes were installed in the past. But these days there are times where you will think the ride has broken down because its so long before a train leaves the station.

 

THIS!

 

I have never seen more "disability" passes on any other ride. I don't know why GhostRider always has so many, but it's so incredibly annoying. I understand the use of a disability pass, and when one person who is truly disabled brings along a friend or something and they really can't stand in line, of course I understand, and that is perfectly acceptable and they have every right to do so. I hate it when one barely-disabled person brings 15 other people with them and fill up half the train almost every cycle. I swear, I don't know what it is about GhostRider, but it BY FAR has the most "exit" people.

 

I don't think the lack of a block brake is the issue. The ride's capacity would be fine (not great, but fine) if there were fewer people at the exit, people were faster at putting stuff in the bins, employees had more motivation, and if there was a single rider line.

 

There is so much more that goes into a ride's capacity and throughput than how many trains they run.

 

Knotts would be the defendant in a lot of lawsuits if they just assumed someone was "barely disabled". Parks are limited by what they can do and be in compliance with the ADA. The best alternative would to be to issue return time passes, since that is equal accommodation.

 

I guess I should have been more clear. I'm not bothered by "barely disabled" people going up the exit. I'm bothered by the huge numbers of guests they bring with them. Like I said, when one disabled person, regardless of severity, goes up the exit with one or two other people, it's not an issue. It's when they bring their entire extended family with them and fill up several rows on the train it gets annoying.

 

It is a complicated situation. Reasonable accommodations make it so theme parks have to allow companions, since able bodied guests are able to wait with their groups.

[firebird81]

9 days

[Nrthwnd]

...Have you seen any mention of a WCB for 2017?

 

Monday, August 7:

 

We are working on dates for our next West Coast Bash which should be in September 2018.

 

[singemfrc]

Darn, looks like they couldn't work it out for this year. That's ok, I look forward to the next one in 9/18. We should have some really good stuff added to both parks by then.

[thedlr]

I'm pretty sure that Ghostrider opened with a block brake. When I visited in January 1999, I got evacuated from said block brake.

[MayTheGForceBeWithYou]

^The midcourse was removed during the retracking.

[thedlr]

I know. I was referring to this statement implying the MCBR was installed some time after opening.

 

Ghostrider never had this problem before the block brakes were installed in the past.

 

I'm guessing firebird81 is referring to the period of time when the trains would roll right through as opposed to slowing/stopping first. That's when the drop out of the MCBR was at its best.

[firebird81]

It may have been there, there is still one there, a new style, but it was not used. I live two miles from KBF, rode that thing more times than I can remember. It was the single largest complaint of GR fans in later years after they installed or started using that brake, because it slowed down the second half of the ride.

[Jew]

If they wanted to, I imagine they could install more proxy sensors along the track and have the lift motor speed/slow down accordingly so the train doesn't actually leave the lift until the other train is back.

[CP Maverick]

I'm pretty sure that's what Kings Island does with The Beast and Mystic Timbers.

[Freestyle23]

If they wanted to, I imagine they could install more proxy sensors along the track and have the lift motor speed/slow down accordingly so the train doesn't actually leave the lift until the other train is back.

 

What SFMM tried to do on TC to race lol But of course that is SF, I know Knotts would do it correctly, or anyone else for that matter.

[El Toro_Ryan]

If they wanted to, I imagine they could install more proxy sensors along the track and have the lift motor speed/slow down accordingly so the train doesn't actually leave the lift until the other train is back.

 

That and allowing the train to advance faster through the brake run and into the station would help I'm sure. It seems to stop and go a lot.

 

And referring back to the midcourse, GCI actually recommended to Knott's that it be removed entirely since Knott's never operated the ride fast enough to actually utilize it. It would have been cool if Knott's decide to keep it and up their operations game up a little. You know, it's not like the ride has a 2 and a half hour wait all the time . And when I say keep the midcourse, I mean only for block purposes like when the ride originally opened and not as a trim in the middle of the ride like it was used for later down the road.

 

I was at the park in late May and the crew couldn't have been doing more than 500 riders an hour even with a full q-line. GCI offers a train with a verify system that really makes the use of a seatbelt redundant. Invadr at BGW and Wodan Timbur Coaster at Europa Park have these trains and don't use seat belts. The trains are double the price of standard GCI trains but it would have been cool to see Knott's purchase these, keep the midcourse, and pump 3 trains around the track to properly accommodate the popularity of the ride. That's probably asking for too much but either way, the ride still kicks ass!!

[firebird81]

Yeah they run soooooo slow. They seem to be enjoying each other's company, tho. There is one girl there who's a little older than the others who seems get them running quicker when she's around. But when she's not....just wow. The part of the line that goes thru the bottom of the building is a hot, humid nightmare.