The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[fpsphil]

Was at the park today, perilous broke down as usual a couple of times but got one of my final rides on it . Park wasn't that crowded overall.

 

Talked to a few employees I ran into about the future of the perilous site, I guess rumor amongst the employees is plans for a large scale Giga have been scrapped because of noise issues (apparently the neighbors across western even have problems with the employee parking lot noise levels) but hopefully these are just rumors and something large scale plays out for the site and there isn't a issue with the neighbors.

[R.C.]

I think a Dive Machine would have to be pretty compact to fit in the space Perilous Plunge sits in. Here's a mock up I made using Google Earth, using the same height above the earth on each dive machine (Sheikra and Griffon) as the height above the Perilous Plunge site, so it should be to scale.

 

If they were to add something the size of Griffon (to scale):

 

 

Or maybe something along the lines of Sheikra (to scale):

 

 

So all-in-all, it seems doable (if it were to be a compact design).

 

Doesn't Busch Gardens/Seaworld have exclusive rights to B&M Dive Machines in America, or did that end already?

[Stitch_101]

I've heard they had the rights, but havn't been able to find put how long that lasts... It's been 7 years already. I could see it being a 5 year exclusive deal, but I would think anything more would be working against B&M...

[Xceleratorfan96]

That would make since because Dive Machines seem like sweet coasters and there were only two installed. And when was that contract made? I know it's random but I'm pretty sure Six Flags Dubailand planned to have a dive machine.... lol and wasn't that like a 2010 project?

Idk in the end this thing would be sweet because it replaces PP vertical drop but actually hangs you there. And it may include some inversions and airtime???(I've never actually rode one)

[MrSum1_55]

I'm not the biggest dive machine fan, but, for $15 million (the price of Griffon), it seems like a good deal for a ride this height. Also, it would be cool if Knott's could fork up a few extra million and make it longer than all the others. However, if you are going to get into a price tag that high, you might as well go for something major, like an Intamin hyper or giga. A dive machine would be cool, but I would rather see California's first non-painful airtime machine be built. Dive machines are good for the drop, but, once that is over, the rest of the ride feels like just a typical B&M looper. But, that is only my personal opinion. From an economic standpoint, a dive machine would probably work very well for the park, and bring something unique to California.

[Xceleratorfan96]

I'm not the biggest dive machine fan, but, for $15 million (the price of Griffon), it seems like a good deal for a ride this height. Also, it would be cool if Knott's could fork up a few extra million and make it longer than all the others. However, if you are going to get into a price tag that high, you might as well go for something major, like an Intamin hyper or giga. A dive machine would be cool, but I would rather see California's first non-painful airtime machine be built. Dive machines are good for the drop, but, once that is over, the rest of the ride feels like just a typical B&M looper. But, that is only my personal opinion. From an economic standpoint, a dive machine would probably work very well for the park, and bring something unique to California.

 

Yeah from what I have seen from Shiekra, it is pretty basic beside the drops. I mean I would ultimately prefer a giga but they would at least need to remove Boomerang and KOD building i think.... with a dive machine they could probably fit it with just PP

[CPFanBoy]

Unfortunately, I don't think a B&M dive machine or mega would compete with the upcoming "Full Throttle" at Magic Mountain. They need an intamin giga to really bring attention to the park.

[jzoole]

The general public doesn't understand why an Intamin Giga is cooler than a Dive Machine. A Dive Machine would make plenty of sense for KBF.

[ILoveRides]

A dive machine seems a bit repetitive to me since you already have vertical drops on Xcelerator and Supreme Scream. It's kind of the same gimmick, and one that Xcelerator pulls off better IMO.

[MrSum1_55]

Also, I might prefer to ride a dive machine without the holding brake, mainly because the brake kills any sense of being whipped down the drop you may get. I do think a giga would please the GP quite a bit (Goliath's drop is legendary in the area, but it is one of the weakest hyper coaster drops, IMO). The GP and enthusiasts alike would be more satisfied with a giga, but a dive machine is considerably cheaper than a giga, so it might be better in terms in bang for buck.

[Manic Monte]

Unfortunately, I don't think a B&M dive machine or mega would compete with the upcoming "Full Throttle" at Magic Mountain. They need an intamin giga to really bring attention to the park.

 

Not sure how you've come to this conclusion. We don't even know how the SFMM coaster will turn out yet.

[cal1br3tto]

^^^I was thinking the same thing (though of course we can talk all day about how many parks have two or more similar/comparable coasters). Then again, I wouldn't complain if they did get a dive machine, as they're very fun!

[SoCalCoasters]

Unfortunately, I don't think a B&M dive machine or mega would compete with the upcoming "Full Throttle" at Magic Mountain. They need an intamin giga to really bring attention to the park.

 

 

I don't the the park absolutely needs an Intamin Giga just to compete with an addition to SFMM that we don't even know the slightest thing about yet.

 

And really, Knott's Berry Farm and Six Flags Magic Mountain have two completely different client bases. Knott's focuses more on the entire family unit and also gets attendance from guest visiting Disney, whereas SFMM focuses much more on just the teenager and young adult crowds/the thrill seekers.

 

Everyone is spewing out all this ridiculous speculation...some of it is welcome but there's a few points I'd like to address.

 

This is the post I should have made long ago....

 

Here's the facts:

 

-The park is removing a prototype water ride that was plagued with issues and capacity problems since day one.

-The ride opens up a considerable amount of room in the back of the park.

-Boomerang is getting old.

-The last time Knott's added a coaster that most enthusiasts classify as a "thrilling ride" was in 2004 with the addition of Silver Bullet.

-Leviathan WAS NOT meant for Knott's.

-The Giga Coaster addition is a rumor.

-The survey marker spotted around the park a year or two back were for a general park survey.

-The style of supporting on the lifts used in both I305 and Leviathan are a way of saving steel to cut down the cost.

-No changes made by the current general manager have indicated that the park wishes to add a large scale thrill ride.

-B&M is the favorite company of Knott's ride management team due to their reliability.

-No official announcement regarding a 2013 attraction has been given.

 

 

Wild Rumors and Speculation:

 

For years, there have off and on been rumors of the park getting a large scale Giga coaster, despite the park's landlocked nature.

The only two companies who have built a Giga (besides Morgan who haven't built anything large in a long time) thus forth have both been rumored to be involved in said project with the park.

If not a giga, than some kind of large scale attraction is suspected as a result of Perilous Plunge's sudden closing announcement. (Something from B&M?)

 

Educated Guesses: (logical inferences based on existing information and knowledge)

 

-Boomerang is heading towards the end of its life (opened 1990). Considering Perilous Plunge was just removed, now would also be the perfect time to demolish Boomerang if in fact it is becoming a maintenance headache. It's run year round for 22 seasons (yeah yeah, excluding rehabs and downtime), making it probably the "oldest" Boomerang in terms of wear and tear from ride cycles. The space taken up by Boomerang is located right across from Perilous Plunge. They could build quite a decent sized attraction if they were to combine these two spaces. Considering the park has not invested in Vekoma's newer cars suggests they plan on axing the ride sometime soon.

 

-They're not going to remove Pony Express anytime soon! Just because a lot of coaster enthusiasts don't like it doesn't mean the ride is horrible. Frankly, I actually quite enjoy the ride despite it's short length. It's the newest coaster in the park's lineup!

 

-If Knott's does indeed place a large scale attraction in PP's place, they're NOT going to tear down the building with the remains of Kingdom of the Dinosaurs! Where the hell do people keep getting this wild idea from? The building still contains: A high capacity eatery, an upcharge laser tag arena (which is currently being converted into an upcharge maze for Scary Farm) and an arcade. It's not going anywhere! I really doubt the park would remove that much infrastructure for a few feet of coaster track...

 

-Knott's is most likely going to replace Perilous Plunge with something else.

 

 

That's all I can think of for now, please, continue with the discussion.

[SharkTums]

^Wow, you are the smartest 16 year old EVER!!!!

 

How do you know sooooo much? Do you also have a degree in engineering?

Edited August 18, 2012 by SharkTums

[SoCalCoasters]

^ Why thank you!

 

Sarcasm aside, my post was not meant to sound like I knew everything.

 

I listed all of that there because I wanted a place where all the known info could be stated, along with some personal observations of mine. All the inferences I made were made with some background knowledge I have. Sure, I'm not an uber genius with a college degree, but it doesn't take a genius to determine that the KOD building as well as Pony Express most likely won't be going anywhere within the next few years.

 

Just because I took the time to put logic into my post doesn't make me a smart-alec. I just wanted to back all my opinions up logically...

[Mr.Wood]

Haven't been on in over a year. This is good news. That area at Knott,s is just not good. They never should have taken out Corkscrew. A new coaster with nice theaming would do the park well. Rip out that crappy Boomerang too. Knott's has done a great job this year making the park beautiful

[chadster]

^^One big item to point out is how do you know Boomerang is reaching end of life? Is that your own gut feeling? Here is a little fun:

 

Since 1990 dating back to the year these pleasure machines were opened in 1984 (1982 if you want to argue one was standing):

 

Relocated and operational after 1990 - 8

Relocated SBNO - 2

Operating in original location - 7

Currently relocating - 1

Relocated and operational prior to 1990 - 2

 

What does all of this mean? I can't find one older than 1990 that has been officially listed as scrapped so I doubt the boomerang is reaching it's end of life, these things just won't die.

[buckaroo234]

after the world ends cockroaches will be riding boomerangs

[brock_boehm]

after the world ends cockroaches will be riding boomerangs

That made me laugh out loud.

 

A wing rider would be awesome, but I think they would need more space for one. They could be the first to have a B&M Wing Rider with a splash-down element. That would be pretty awesome.

[SoCalCoasters]

^^One big item to point out is how do you know Boomerang is reaching end of life? Is that your own gut feeling? Here is a little fun:

 

Since 1990 dating back to the year these pleasure machines were opened in 1984 (1982 if you want to argue one was standing):

 

Relocated and operational after 1990 - 8

Relocated SBNO - 2

Operating in original location - 7

Currently relocating - 1

Relocated and operational prior to 1990 - 2

 

What does all of this mean? I can't find one older than 1990 that has been officially listed as scrapped so I doubt the boomerang is reaching it's end of life, these things just won't die.

 

Well, I did list the boomerang under the educated guess section because I don't know for sure. It was just speculation.

 

There's a couple reasons why I believe it might be on it's way out. Like I said above, the ride has been running year round since its opening, rather than being closed half of the year for seasonal operations. This means a lot more wear and tear than say, a Boomerang on the east coast which only operates daily during the Spring and Summer. the ride is also running old fashioned Arrow trains. A lot of parks are running Boomerangs with the newer style cars or with Vekoma's new tangled vest system. Knott's has chosen not to invest in a new system. If they intended to keep the ride running any more than a few years at this point they might need to invest in new trains due to the age of the original ones. The ride has been around for 22 years, year round.

 

Also, it's been mentioned at least once in this thread that Boomerang might be leaving soon. No, I don't know for sure, but based on some observations I came to a conclusion. I never said it with absolute truth.

[A.J.]

I don't understand why everyone is giving the death stare to Boomerang. I understand that most enthusiasts don't like it, but if it isn't operating at a loss, there really is no reason for it to leave, right?

 

Granted, I have no idea if it's operating at a loss or not, but still, wouldn't it have been gone years ago?

[MrSum1_55]

Keep in mind, Knott's has another shuttle coaster that is even older, and they could remove that one just as easily. Of course, I do not want to bring up the horrible thought of them removing that coaster...

[3Mutts]

^ Who knows, now with Matt's demolition fever.

[6flagsbrad]

I'm sure Knotts would choose to keep Montezooma over Boomerang in a heart beat.

[Tmcdllr]

So I visited the park for the first rime in 30 years and I really liked it. MR is still awesome and I loved Xcelerator. Rode PP and the ride op said it was sold to another park which I thought was a funny thing to mention to a guest but whatever. Overall I really enjoyed the park and all the rides and I hope it wont be another 30 years before I come back.