The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

They're killing the charm!!!

[Chrisrad]

^ So I guess that ride was a major POS? What caused that? I never had a chance to ride it, but it seems to have a negative following.

[JJ728]

^ So I guess that ride was a major POS? What caused that? I never had a chance to ride it, but it seems to have a negative following.

It's a TOGO. That's about all you need to know lol

[WFChris]

^It was TWO togo's right next to each other...double trouble!!

[Chrisrad]

^ Got it, thanks! I just read a bit about TOGO (which further explains with the coaster at New York, New York gets bad reviews.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed a million times, but it looks as if Knott's was unsuccessful with their suit against TOGO?

[JJ728]

^ Got it, thanks! I just read a bit about TOGO (which further explains with the coaster at New York, New York gets bad reviews.

 

I'm sure this has been discussed a million times, but it looks as if Knott's was unsuccessful with their suit against TOGO?

I could be wrong, but I think the courts rejected filing of the suit.

 

The ride itself was defective, and had countless problems. It's a Togo. It would valley in winds less then 10 mph. It's a Togo. It ironically had the name Windjammer, and it was also a Togo.

 

I always think back and slap myself in the face. "Why would Knott's hire that company??" Apparently someone overlooked something!

[Chrisrad]

^ Yeah, I couldn't help but laugh at the irony with its name

 

I watched Robb's POV of Windjammer - yeah, ouch! As he states, it really does sound like a metal trash can banging against the track.

 

I also noticed in the POV that the sky tower used to have a different color combo. Back to my argument earlier about Knott's color schemes.. yeah, wow - who chooses ride colors there? Xclerator looks good - I asked during WCB if it had to do with the pastel color of the 50s, and was answered with a yes, but I'm still shaking my head at 'Silver' (silver) 'Bullet' (silver/metal/metallic/lead/etc.).

 

Any guesses on what the color of the giga will be? (It doesn't hurt to wish positively, does it?)

[metrock]

Last time was at Knott's they still had chicken togo.

[Dietcokevan]

Any guesses on what the color of the giga will be? (It doesn't hurt to wish positively, does it?)

Red track with yellow supports.

[Big-M]

Any guesses on what the color of the giga will be? (It doesn't hurt to wish positively, does it?)

Red track with yellow supports.

Really? I'm betting on red track with white supports.

(My second guess would be red track & beige supports)

[metrock]

^ But Knott's only has Red and Orange paint.

[cfc]

They're killing the charm!!!

 

Yep--especially when compared to the Soapbox Racers or the Motorcycle Chase. (It also killed riders' jaws, kneecaps, ears, etc. Xcelerator was a huge improvement over this thing.)

 

I'm still puzzled as to why they changed the Roaring 20s Airfield to the more generic Boardwalk theme. The Roaring 20s section was, at least, unique. I can't think of any other park that uses that era for theming. I think this change may have pre-dated Cedar Fair, though.

[coasternut]

Ouimet knows a little something about theme parks, having served as president of the Disneyland resort during the park’s 50th anniversary in 2005. “It’s a real advantage for me,” he said. “I know the industry. I know the players in the industry, and I think I know the consumer in Southern California. I think all of that will help (me) get traction sooner rather than later.”

 

Disney demands a lot from its employees to create the atmosphere its known for. Ouimet said he saw the same dedication and results at the four Cedar Fair parks he’s visited so far. “It’s the people who make the difference,” he said, adding he was impressed with “the quality of the services provided and the quality of the physical plants themselves. I suspected it from the outside, but you never really know until you see it from the inside.”

 

 

Are you kidding dedicated Cedar Fair employees! That may have been true 3 or 4 years ago, but no more. I go to Cedar Fair parks all over the country, and it's bad all over. I do hope he can turn it around. "Big Dick" Kinzel, just killed it in his old age. I'm glad he's gone or at least on his way out.

 

Let's hope for a great new ride for poor old Knotts. They deserve it.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^If you stack up the rides Knott's offers over the rest of Cedar Fair's parks, they'd come out ahead over most of their properties. It's not a bad lineup they have of their rides TOTAL. Yes Cedar Point, Kings Island, and maybe King's Dominion offer better rides total, but after that Knott's is closely behind. With the addition of adding ONE coaster in that of a hyper/giga, IMO that would put Knott's up as the second best park in the chain for variety. Doesn't sound to me like Knott's is that dilapidated that one ride would round out their lineup.

[the ghost]

Funnily enough, Windjammer was my first "looper" and I found it to be awesome. It still ranks really low on my CF rankings though because unfortunately for Windjammer my second looper was Cali screamin which was SO MUCH MORE AWESOME!

[Sir Clinksalot]

^^ I've only been to Knott's, CGA and Dorney, but I do think Knott's is the best of those three (not surprising).

 

I think I mentioned it in another thread about CGA, and the potential for that park to be great is probably more than any other park in the chain. They have an amazing line-up of flat/family rides, they just need to decide if they are going to keep the park and then invest in the park. Give Grizzly the Rocky Mtn. treatment, remove Vortex and put in a Mega-Lite and then maybe a nice compact floorless or Eurofighter coaster or something. That would give the park 4 amazing coasters (along with Flight Deck) to compliment the already existing line-up of flat/family rides.

[BlueFireCoaster]

However, Silver Bullet does nothing to complement the theme of Ghost Town--it just overpowers it.

 

I agree completely. After they installed Silver Bullet I pretty much took my "They need to preserve Knott's history" feelings and threw them out the window. Reflection lake became Reflection pond, the train ride and boat ride from Camp Snoopy were pretty much neutered to nothing (the boat ride being quickly removed after that), and the entire area was littered with that big bulky red and yellow track and silver supports. As others have stated, SB is also probably one of my least favorite inverts in terms of intensity and ride experience (and I'm probably also a little bit bias seeing as how it took away one of my more favorite areas of the park).

 

My opinion now is to fill the place up with as many cool coasters as possible.

[Skycoastin Steve]

(and I'm probably also a little bit bias seeing as how it took away one of my more favorite areas of the park).

I think a lot of people are. The rides I had on it during WCB 2010 were very, very enjoyable (and actually MUCH better than what I expected). Several other TPR members around me who had never ridden it also agreed that it was a high quality invert. I think the problem is 1. it's not as intense at Batman 2. it "killed" Ghost Town and 3. it's at Knott's. Hell, most people I know personally that have ridden it all loved it, as well. But to each his/her own!

[Chrisrad]

^ Does anyone have any before/after pictures of pre-SB, versus post-SB? I guess I'm confused as to how it has affected Ghost Town (isn't Ghost Town over near Ghost Rider?).

 

 

I've heard a lot about Knott's from my parents and older siblings, and remember going there in the 90s, but, other than that, images of "Knott's when it had charm" are not burned into my memory.

[metrock]

^ Technically, Silver bullet took over areas of Fiesta Village and Indian Trails. Though, the visual impact no doubt takes over Ghost Town.

 

If you check out this gallery, you'll find a lot of images that show what Knott's used to look like. http://www.image-archeology.com/knotts_berry_farm.htm

 

To get down to some specifics in regards to your question, this is what the area looks like before Silver Bullet.

 

For reference, look at this old map. http://cbcdc.telkamps.com/images/KnottsMap.jpg (I couldn't find one from the early 2000s that showed a more accurate picture of the park just prior to Silver Bullet, but this should help with locations of some of the following pictures)

 

The lake is in the same spot. The church was removed and the station for Silver Bullet is right behind where it was. http://www.image-archeology.com/The_Church_of_Reflections_Knott%27s_Berry_Farm_W22.jpg

 

As was this building (you can see the steeple of the other church behind it) http://www.image-archeology.com/Knott%27s_Berry_Farm_C_12782.jpg

 

A view of the lake - http://americacoasters.com/Photos/thumbs/lrg-2158-monte3.jpg

 

 

There is more that I can post, but this is just a bit for now. I'll update with more info when I have the time. hope this helps a little.

 

EDIT: Here is a before/after taken from Google Earth (open in new tabs and toggle)

 

Before - 12/3/03 (The lake is drained and the church is gone. But you can still see the other buildings, including the "old" berry stand) http://i.imgur.com/ND22L.jpg

 

After - 3/7/2011 - http://i.imgur.com/5bMkw.jpg

Edited July 5, 2011 by metrock

[Chrisrad]

^ Yep, that definitely helps, thanks!

 

So yeah, it's definitely a 'pond' now.. not even a lake anymore.

 

I'm assuming the church is across the street where the WCB lunch was held. I have car shows there every April and my brother is always trying to figure out why they moved the church - now I know; it wasn't because of irrelevance, but because of necessity.

 

I'll keep looking through those pictures - quite the illustrative history of Knott's!

[BlueFireCoaster]

^^That is a great site.

 

Like I said, it doesn't matter to me anymore because what's done is done, but the best way to describe it is it felt like Knott's actually had a pretty decent sized serene body of water with a train ride around it and a boat ride you'd take from Camp Snoopy - almost like the body of water they have surrounding Tom Sawyer Island at Disneyland. It was very "campy" with lots of trees and shade, and it was a nice serene area of the park, probably the last place available in the park where you could just go to relax. So basically, it went from that to lots of flat concrete, and a crowded bunch of B&M supports and track squeezed into the middle (and surrounding) area of the park.

 

What I've been looking for (and maybe someone will have one) is a photo of Reflection Lake from the Sky Cabin similar to this one below: but one that is BEFORE Silver Bullet was installed because I'm pretty sure that would tell the whole picture. I can't believe there's not atleast ONE picture of Reflection Lake from the Sky Cabin before the ride was installed, but it's been hell trying to find one.

 

Another photo which kind of shows the difference is the layout drawing of Silver Bullet before it was installed (also below), you can see how the body of water wrapped all the way around Montezuma's to Camp Snoopy. If you look closely you can even see the drawbridge the train ride used to have (that actually worked and was used) which would open for the steam boat to pass every trip.

[Chrisrad]

^ Damn, that thing really is massive in comparison to its surroundings.

 

I would also like to see the photo you're looking for. There are countless forums/blogs about Disneyland with pictorial before/after contrasting.

[Top Thrill Dragster]

 

Before Silver Bullet.

 

In this photo Jaguar is under construction.

[Chrisrad]

^ woah...there seemed to be a heck of a lot more trees back then. Trees and charm do not draw guests from afar.