The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[braztaz]

Those are classified as hypercoasters, they just aren't the hypercoaster model.

[PAL]

Good news eyeglass wearers! Xcelerator's no-glasses tyranny has ended. Yesterday my son and I were allowed to actually see where we were going. I spoke with one of the ops (I know) who said the operations manual had been made consistent with the other Intamin Accelerators. BUT - straps are mandatory. Enjoy!

 

In other news, some scummy lowlife swiped my son's size 13 water shoes practically out from under my nose over at Soak City a mere 15 minutes before close, only two chairs over from where I was sitting browsing TPR on my phone. What kind of creep steals shoes? Really! If you have the scratch to fool around in a waterpark you're not desperate for footwear. I hope your feet rot. May you someday walk home barefoot through a mile of broken glass and dog crap you jerk.

 

That was the first incident of its kind in 44 years of park visits.

[fatdaddy]

I wish people under, let's say 30, would quit talking about Knott's charm, if your in your 20's you didn't experience Knott's charm. I mean the park was totally different when I was a kid, how bout this, if you have not seen 4 different coasters including Xcelerator in that spot, don't talk nostalgia.

[PAL]

^Motorbike Racers for the win! (At least I think that was the name)

[WFChris]

^^I'm well aware of the charm that used to exist at KBF...then again I'm almost 30! lol

 

Plus, I think there is enough charm left in Ghost Town, and even Camp Snoopy to hint at what the park might have been like before it became a healthy support beam forest. Right? Right guys?????

[Chrisrad]

I wish people under, let's say 30, would quit talking about Knott's charm, if your in your 20's you didn't experience Knott's charm. I mean the park was totally different when I was a kid, how bout this, if you have not seen 4 different coasters including Xcelerator in that spot, don't talk nostalgia.

 

My sisters were there in the 80s and can't believe how things have changed over the years. My mother/father remember the park from the 60s!

 

As long as the chicken dinner restaurant stays, at least some remnants of Ghost Town, the Mine Ride, and Log Ride, I'd be happy. At the same time, audiences/generations evolve with times and expect different forms of entertainment.

 

Your argument reminds me of kids born in the 90s who pretend to like the 80s (the music/clothing/etc.).

[Jew]

I wish people under, let's say 30, would quit talking about Knott's charm, if your in your 20's you didn't experience Knott's charm. I mean the park was totally different when I was a kid, how bout this, if you have not seen 4 different coasters including Xcelerator in that spot, don't talk nostalgia.

 

I don't think that is true. The things I remember most about KBF that are gone now are mostly the "little things" like the mural that used to be in the tunnel, how creepy the church+reflection lake were during haunt, the "original" berry stand/vines, and even the dolphin show! Let alone the bigger attractions I loved like Soap Box Racers, Parachute drop, and the Haunt shack.

 

But in the present state, it is what it is. There's no turning back at this point, so they might as well keep doing what they are doing: building thrill rides and restoring what they can inside the park to maintain some of that old charm.

[DBJ]

I am confident that Ouimet will be able to guide Knott's and the other CF parks into a great new direction. His Disney/Disneyland track record is quite impressive.

 

The lack of charm imo comes down to how the coaster installations have been worked into the park. Under prior management, the Knott's coasters just kind of wiped out the charm, and replaced it with nothing. Silver Bullet I think is the most glaring example. The color scheme, q and the station have literally nothing to do with the old west. Yet it is called Silver Bullet. And the impact it had on the outdoor theater? Surely there must have been a better way to intergrate a coaster like SB into the area.

 

I remember Knott's from back in the day and for the most part, the park's attraction roster has made it a much better park. The loss of character, charm, and theme in parts of the park are unfortunate. However, I have to give Knott's / CF credit for restoring the peak-in's, and the intergration of some of the park's eateries (Panda, Rockets) into their locations.

 

So I am hoping Ouimet guides CF into the practice of improving on pre-existing charm, and not just turning the parks into a series of basic steel sheds/stations and concrete. My hopes are high.

[djbrcace1234]

Went to the park on Thursday, and I have some good news regarding Pony Express. The second train that has been dismantled since October of last year is finally being put back together. It's half way assembled:

 

And the Windseeker? More assembly has been taken care of, and the queue line itself is almost complete. The control booth is also up, so not much physical construction appears to be made, besides placing ride vehicles, and resurfacing the entrance by Jaguar.

[PAL]

Any guesses when Xcellerator will be back to 2 train ops? On Thurs the second train was on the transfer with the shell off the front car.

 

Still steamed some fool stole my kid's shoes at Soak City. No, I don't blame the park one bit. Some people.

[metrock]

I wish people under, let's say 30, would quit talking about Knott's charm, if your in your 20's you didn't experience Knott's charm. I mean the park was totally different when I was a kid, how bout this, if you have not seen 4 different coasters including Xcelerator in that spot, don't talk nostalgia.

 

I don't think that is true. The things I remember most about KBF that are gone now are mostly the "little things" like the mural that used to be in the tunnel, how creepy the church+reflection lake were during haunt, the "original" berry stand/vines, and even the dolphin show! Let alone the bigger attractions I loved like Soap Box Racers, Parachute drop, and the Haunt shack.

 

Ah, yes. How true it is, Joey. I do miss all those things you mentioned. To add to that list, I'm gonna give a shout out to XK-1. I loved going upside down on it for as long as it would let me.

 

But you know, the loss of charm is all relative. Some people might say that Knott's lost its charm with the removal of: the parachutes, Wacky Soap Box Racers, Corkscrew, etc. People of an older generation may argue that charm was lost when the aforementioned attractions were installed in place of whatever else where there before. In due time, there will be a generation of people upset at the removal of current attractions that we deemed to be ruining what was there before. So, regardless of age, no one is wrong in feeling that charm is being lost around the park.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

In 2021.......

 

 

"What? They're removing Perilous Plunge? But that's the only thing on the boardwalk that has to do with water? They're ruining the atmosphere of the park!"

[fatdaddy]

^You know all the charm was lost when they took out Hammerhead! (sarcasm)

 

I wish people under, let's say 30, would quit talking about Knott's charm, if your in your 20's you didn't experience Knott's charm. I mean the park was totally different when I was a kid, how bout this, if you have not seen 4 different coasters including Xcelerator in that spot, don't talk nostalgia.

 

I don't think that is true. The things I remember most about KBF that are gone now are mostly the "little things" like the mural that used to be in the tunnel, how creepy the church+reflection lake were during haunt, the "original" berry stand/vines, and even the dolphin show! Let alone the bigger attractions I loved like Soap Box Racers, Parachute drop, and the Haunt shack.

 

But in the present state, it is what it is. There's no turning back at this point, so they might as well keep doing what they are doing: building thrill rides and restoring what they can inside the park to maintain some of that old charm.

 

That was actually the point I was making, that if your old enough to remember those coasters, your old enough to remember the rest of the park when it really was still the Knott's of old. I mean tons of rides, show and attractions have gone in the time since the steeple chase coaster was there. I even miss the old souveniers they used to have. I have no problem with the state of the park as it is, most of the people who complain don't visit the park anyway. There is a lot of work that still needs to be done to the park and I would guess we will see more things either removed or refurbished. Actually there is still a lot of things still there from the "old" Knott's, but again, if you are of the younger generation, you probably don't even know they are there.

[jedimaster1227]

http://ocresort.ocregister.com/2011/07/03/new-knotts-president-promises-progress-but-will-respect-history/81589/

 

Knott’s Berry Farm bills itself as “America’s first theme park.” Matthew Ouimet calls it a “jewel” in a chain of 11 parks owned by the Berry Farm’s parent company, Cedar Fair Entertainment Co. This week, just days after Ouimet was named president of Cedar Fair, he spent a couple of days visiting Knott’s Berry Farm, taking in the sights and talking to visitors, and of course, eating some of Mrs. Knott’s chicken. “This park has a lot of potential,” he said as he stood in front of the Silver Bullet roller coaster, the new Windseeker ride under construction right behind it. “This is one of those parks that’s a jewel.”

 

It was the first time he’d been to the park since February, when he visited Knott’s as research while he was a candidate for the Cedar Fair job. Surrounded by the weathered buildings in Ghost Town, Ouimet said that the historic side of Knott’s Berry Farm is one of the park’s greatest allures and needs to be preserved. At the same time, he said, progress needs to be made; new attractions must be put out there to keep visitors — especially young ones — coming through the turnstiles. “These parks — and Disney’s the same way — have to be part timeless and part timely,” Ouimet said. “You’ve got to respect the legacy, but you also have to respect the world’s changed, and the consumer’s changed. … You have to respect the future, or you won’t be here 50 years from now. “I see Knott’s evolving over time. I can’t tell you the specifics on day 10 (on the job), but we’re going to spend a lot of time asking the consumer what they want.”

 

Ouimet knows a little something about theme parks, having served as president of the Disneyland resort during the park’s 50th anniversary in 2005. “It’s a real advantage for me,” he said. “I know the industry. I know the players in the industry, and I think I know the consumer in Southern California. I think all of that will help (me) get traction sooner rather than later.”

 

Disney demands a lot from its employees to create the atmosphere its known for. Ouimet said he saw the same dedication and results at the four Cedar Fair parks he’s visited so far. “It’s the people who make the difference,” he said, adding he was impressed with “the quality of the services provided and the quality of the physical plants themselves. I suspected it from the outside, but you never really know until you see it from the inside.”

 

Last year, company shareholders successfully derailed the sale of the company and criticized its leadership, particularly outgoing Chief Executive Officer Dick Kinzel. (Ouimet will take Kinzel’s place as CEO in January.) The stock fight won’t change how Ouimet does things, he said. “From a park standpoint, from the individual guest, it makes no difference,” he said. “The best thing we can do for our stockholders is to provide a great park experience (for visitors). Our obligation is to make you smile and laugh in a world that is a little more complicated than you believe it should be.”

 

Ouimet has moved to the Sandusky, Ohio area where Cedar Fair is based, but he will retain his home in Coto de Caza. He has a wife of 29 years, Kathleen, and two grown children.

[Tmcdllr]

I wonder what he thought of CGA.

[John Knotts]

I love the comments about preserving history, while making very MODERN progress at the same time. He should be quoted every time people start whining about charm.

 

hahaha, maybe I'm just reading between the lines a little too closely, but his comments totally sound like something BIG is on it's way to Knotts.

[Skycoastin Steve]

^I don't doubt at all that with this rumor of a gigacoaster, it's a case of "where there's smoke, there's fire." The interview could be Ouimet's way of preparing everyone for something of that magnitude, or it really could just be his honest assessment of the direction KBF is headed in. The great part is, we'll find out eventually!

[cfc]

I love the comments about preserving history, while making very MODERN progress at the same time. He should be quoted every time people start whining about charm.

 

hahaha, maybe I'm just reading between the lines a little too closely, but his comments totally sound like something BIG is on it's way to Knotts.

 

Those who complain that the park has lost some of its "charm" (as I do) aren't saying that the park shouldn't "progress"--they just don't agree with how Cedar Fair has gone about it. For example, I have no issues with something like Xcelerator, which at least adheres to the theme of the Boardwalk area pretty well (and is the best ride in the park). However, Silver Bullet does nothing to complement the theme of Ghost Town--it just overpowers it.

[John Knotts]

^I don't doubt at all that with this rumor of a gigacoaster, it's a case of "where there's smoke, there's fire." The interview could be Ouimet's way of preparing everyone for something of that magnitude, or it really could just be his honest assessment of the direction KBF is headed in. The great part is, we'll find out eventually!

 

I'm sure it's the latter. I'm just looking for clues that the rumor is true where ever I can find them. How come the California parks never participate in the viral marketing gimmick!? lol

[John Knotts]

I love the comments about preserving history, while making very MODERN progress at the same time. He should be quoted every time people start whining about charm.

 

hahaha, maybe I'm just reading between the lines a little too closely, but his comments totally sound like something BIG is on it's way to Knotts.

 

Those who complain that the park has lost some of its "charm" (as I do) aren't saying that the park shouldn't "progress"--they just don't agree with how Cedar Fair has gone about it. For example, I have no issues with something like Xcelerator, which at least adheres to the theme of the Boardwalk area pretty well (and is the best ride in the park). However, Silver Bullet does nothing to complement the theme of Ghost Town--it just overpowers it.

 

Silver Bullet is the the one case where I whole-heartedly agree. It completely destroyed that area, and to me it's sits there as the biggest eyesore in the park. And on top of that it's my least favorite B&M inverted that I've ridden.

 

I do agree attractions in this park need to be impeccably installed, although space issues can complicate that process.

[fpsphil]

Any guesses when Xcellerator will be back to 2 train ops? On Thurs the second train was on the transfer with the shell off the front car.

 

The front row on that train was broken last week.

[PAL]

While plenty of people feel Silver Bullet is an assault on Ghost Town, I believe it was a good addition. It brings movement to the front of the park, where it fits in with the park's "coaster core" interacting with Montezuma, Sierra Sidewinder, and Jaguar. That tangle of track is the beating heart of the park. It isn't exactly in the center of Ghost Town but off to the side. There's plenty of Ghost Town left. In my view the real insult is Pointless Express.

 

Silver Bullet might be the quietest B&M out there, so silent it's uncanny. It is far from a horrible ride even if it's no Batman clone on the intensity scale. It's unique, with that inverted turn, the cobra roll's dives right into the entry plaza, and the alternating directions of the rolls leading into the helix.

 

Don't take that to mean Silver Bullet wouldn't have been a better fit elsewhere in the park. The Roaring Twenties / Boardwalk area has looked rather empty the past few years. I'm hopeful Knott's will work on that area soon, giga or no giga.

 

The time had come to move the church and displace the dilapidated mission dioramas. The church is a better fit outside the amusement park. As for the missions, with some people they have as unsavory reputation as the concentration camps at Treblinka or Dachau. Attitudes change with the times. The amusement park side is so landlocked, some things have to go to make way for the present.

[OldJJman]

There's plenty of Ghost Town left.

 

I pretty much agree, but it's still not the same. In that vein, I also believe that the main parts of Ghost Town will be there forever.

Silver Bullet might be the quietest B&M out there, so silent it's uncanny.

 

That, along with the "shed" on GR, are direct results of the people that live nearby, filing complaints with the city. It was all part of controlling the noise that could be heard from the park. Not long after the shed went up on GR, complaints came from the other side of Beach Blvd about Montezuma's Revenge, (people figured that if ONE noise could be taken care of, why not more!) so the support structure was filled with sand. When SB was announced, it had already been decided to fill the supports with sand so as to appease the obvious complaints that would've been forthcoming. Hence, NO B&M roar.

 

The Roaring Twenties / Boardwalk area has looked rather empty the past few years. I'm hopeful Knott's will work on that area soon, giga or no giga.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the whole building behind the fountain (ex-KotD, the arcade, Johnny Rockets, etc...), as well as the bumper cars to be leveled for a new area or expansion of the boardwalk area. That could accommodate several new attractions, and remove the eyesore that it now is.

 

A large (giga, hyper, whatever) WAS rumored many years ago, coinciding with the demise of KotD, as that building would've housed the loading platform, queue, transfer track and shop for the ride. The rumor continued that the ride's lift-hill would go thru the roof (ala Desperado).

 

Maybe those thoughts never really went away?

 

 

JJ

[metrock]

They killed the charm!

 

[Chrisrad]

I wholeheartedly agree with Ouimet about the park's future - it's important to preserve as much as possible, while moving ahead to attract future generations.

 

As some have said, Silver Bullet is kind of overkill in its current location, but it is neat to walk in and see the Cobra Roll. I think the biggest thing in the whole area is the color scheme - nothing flows/blends with the surroundings - there are just a million different colors. Even when Disney has an outdoor coaster (CA Screamin'), they make it blend with its surroundings (painted white to look like a wooden/boardwalk coaster).