The Official Mitch Hawker 2012 Steel Coaster Poll Thread!

[_koppen]

I don't get all the hate on Silver Star. Sure it's my least favorite B&M hyper of the three I've ridden, and it's not the most forceful coaster in the world, but this whole spiel about it being "trimmed to death" and "there's zero airtime and zero force" is a complete exaggeration.

 

This!

[Dobba]

Good ol' Nemesis. 19 years young this month and still going strong.

[cfc]

^Yep--it's still my favorite invert, as well.

 

 

I don't get all the hate on Silver Star. Sure it's my least favorite B&M hyper of the three I've ridden, and it's not the most forceful coaster in the world, but this whole spiel about it being "trimmed to death" and "there's zero airtime and zero force" is a complete exaggeration.

 

This!

 

It wasn't a "complete exaggeration" when I rode it back in 2008--easily the dullest B&M ride out there (which was sad, because it certainly looked great, as does the disappointing Thunder Dolphin in Japan).

Edited March 7, 2013 by cfc

[David H]

So a lot has been talked about here. Here's my take on them, and some other observations:

 

Yes, Expedition GeForce beat Bizarro this year. But it was VERY close. It came down to a 21-16 vote between the two. That's not exactly a sweeping victory. And New Texas Giant was pretty close behind, too, losing to EGF 12-5, but coming very close to Bizarro at 19-17, with its tie with Skyrush somewhat of an outlier.

 

For the second poll year in a row, Mirabilandia is the ONLY park in the world which can claim to have the TWO top 10 coasters on EITHER poll. If the park was smart, they would market that impressive feat in its advertising! iSpeed even managed to jump up two notches to #8, despite 3 new coasters debuting above it, for an effective jump of 5 notches. It's hard to believe that it debuted at #36! I wonder how high it would rank if they shut off the mid-course brake!

 

Shambhala at #6? That's probably totally due to the inexperience of the few riders. Plus the first year B&M effect. Expect it to drop significantly in the next few years. Then again, I haven't ridden it, so maybe it's the next sliced bread? Judging from the other B&M hypers, I'm not holding my breath, though.

 

Mega-lites? Yes, they're THAT good. Well, maybe I think they're a BIT overrated. But they're amazing rides. They really pack some seriously strong ejector airtime and intense directional changes in the middle section of the ride. Do they ride that differently? I found that they did vary somewhat, but that may be a matter of factors like when you ride in the day and how broken in they are when you're riding. They definitely broke in when I get the chance to ride them later in the day. My top 40 are all very tightly packed, such that a small change in quality can mean quite a few notches on my list. I got to ride 3 of the 4 over the course of a month on my Asia trip last year, with two of them a week apart on the TPR China part of the trip. I thought that Fly Over Mediterranean was the best of them, although I did ride it later in the day than any of the others. Note that it would have ranked at #6 if it had gotten just two more votes. Which is a shame, since there were more than 30 of us on the TPR trip! Mega-Lite in Shanghai's Happy Valley wasn't quite up to speed during our morning filming session, but it picked up some speed later in the day. Kawasemi was somewhere in the middle for me. Piraten wasn't running as well as I suspect it could have during ACE's Scandinavia Tour last year, which might explain it's drop this year from 6 to 13. I personally have them ranked between 15 and 36.

 

Speaking of Chinese coasters that didn't get enough riders, Sky Scrapper would have ranked at #21, if a few more of the people on the TPR China trip had voted! That would have easily made it the best flying coaster in the world -- which it assuredly is, in my book! it's my #5 steel overall.

 

Cheetah Hunt? I imagine that if you cut off the first 1/3 of the ride that it would rank higher. It has some good moments, but overall, I found it not worth the wait. And yes, it has longer lines than anything in the park. It's their newest coaster, so of course it does.

 

Millennium Forceless finally out of the top 10? Hallelujah! Still, yes, it will end up at #1 in the Golden Tickets. But that's because it's probably the single most popular coaster in the world, in terms of overall popularity. If there's any park that EVERY coaster enthusiast worldwide feels that they MUST visit, it's Cedar Point. And MF is the biggest crowd pleaser there, no matter what I personally think of it. Yes, a lot of well travelled enthusiast like myself think it's way overrated, but it's easily on more top 10 lists than any other coaster on the planet. just look at the number of riders who voted for it. The only coasters in the poll that got over 200 riders were the Cedar Point coasters, Nitro, the Orlando coasters, and the groupings.

 

Which brings up an interesting observations. People seem so overly excited about Gatekeeper. I get nearly daily updates from salivating fanboys and fangirls on my Facebook feed seemingly every time anything happens. (A Gatekeeper worker was just seen going to the bathroom! Time for a Facebook update!) Yet, despite the excitement over a relatively new coaster type, none of B&M's wing coasters have made much of an impact in the poll. SFGAm's X-Flight did the best at #58. Wild Eagle only managed to hit #87, despite Dollywood giving ACE first class treatment (including a serenade by Dolly herself) at last year's convention. Yet everyone's SO excited about Gatekeeper. Do they really expect it to be THAT much better than the others? Yes, it's Cedar Point, but, geez.

 

Don't read too much into individual rankings much below 50, especially below 100. A bunch of people wrote asking why similar coasters ranked 10 or 20 notches differently. That's just the reality of a poll like this. Depending on who rode which in any given year, the rankings can really vary, especially as you get lower in the poll. It's not uncommon to see jumps or drops or even 50 or more notches from year to year for no real good reason.

 

Silver Star, trimmed to death? It was when I rode it, but that was 10 years ago. Hopefully, I'll see what it's like now in the Summer.

 

Superman; Krypton Coaster deserving of being higher? I'm a huge B&M looper fan, and I put it SLIGHTLY higher at #37 than it's #54 ranking. But I tend to rank most B&M loopers higher than the rest of you. I doubt that it will jump higher, even with more people visiting this year for Iron Rattler. Remember, ACE had a convention add-on day there two years ago, so a bunch more people have already ridden it recently. But the way the poll works, more riders shouldn't really affect the rankings, unless the ride changes.

 

The highest grouped coasters is actually the Batmen at #77.

 

It seems that most of the lower half of the top 10 got pushed down my the new additions, with a few coasters managing to hold their ground or even move up.

 

Some notable drops:

 

Pyrenees dropped 11-22. I really wish someone could explain this to me, especially with Katun holding at #9. They're pretty similar rides, although on both of my visits to both parks Pyrenees was significantly more intense, especially in the middle of the ride, with the most effective cobra roll on the planet. I suspect that a lot if it is due to the smaller ridership giving different groups of riders with different opinions on the B&M inverteds in general. Because a quick look at the ballots shows that most people who rode both of them had them similarly placed. Larry, if you're reading this, I'd love it if you explained why you put Katun so much higher than Pyrenees. I'm not doubting your opinions. I'm just genuinely curious, since we have similar tastes in coasters. The only thing I can think is that the older more forceful B&M coasters really shine in the back row, where the forces are the most extreme. And during an ERT session on a group tour fewer people will get the chance to ride in the back. I'd imagine that a lot more enthusiasts (at least those from Europe) have been to Italy without a big group than have been to the middle of nowhere in Japan!

 

Atlantis Adventure should be renamed the Bounce Coaster. It's gone from 28 to 13 to 21 to 12 to 24. I think this shows particularly well how coasters that haven't been ridden my many people in the poll can have unreliable rankings. Which is why Mitch doesn't list them without at least 10 riders, which AA just met, thanks to my visit this year.

 

Since I ranked it quite a bit lower than others, I took a quick peek at the spreadsheet to discover that my ballot alone changed 20 of the pairings, or 6% of them! Yes, 20 of them, because so many of them were so close. In fact, at 19 ties, it had more than any other coaster in the top 90. (And lower than that, you're bound to see a lot of ties, because a lot of people group the lower coasters.) And if you consider that really only the pairings with the top 70 or so would really be in dispute for a top 30 coaster, having 20 of those 70 changed by ONE ballot shows how volatile the rankings really are for less-ridden coasters. Without my ballot, Atlantis Adventure would have ranked at #18.

 

Carowinds' Intimidator seems to have felt the new B&M effect, dropping to 42 after debuting at 21.

 

Despite near universal hatred among enthusiasts, X2 managed to jump up from 32 to 25 when a bunch of newer coasters should have knocked it down. I'm guessing that this is the result of more people now having ridden it since the overhaul.

 

Grona Lund's Insane probably has had the biggest fall from grace of any once top ranked coaster on the list. It dropped from 20 to 40 on the last poll, and all the way down to 110 this year! I'm guessing that it's just not flipping as much as it did in the first year, like on that legendary TPR Scandi tour, which everyone raves about. I know that when I went two years ago with ACE, we weren't getting nearly the crazy rides we'd heard about, no matter how much we tried to unbalance the ride. I wonder if it has just gotten less flippy with time, or if the park has adjusted it to lessen the flipping. I know that outside of our ERT session, the park wasn't allowing unbalanced rides.

 

After staying steady around #50 for several years, Steel Dragon 2000 dropped down to #94, which is closer to where that once record-setting tall -- but uneventful -- coaster belongs. I put it at #151.

 

Heibe Fahrt dropped from 60 to 114. Was it ever really that good?

 

It was weird to notice that I was the ONLY person to ride most of the coasters in Taiwan in this year's poll, with the exception of one other person who has been to Janfusun Fancyworld.

[larrygator]

Larry, if you're reading this, I'd love it if you explained why you put Katun so much higher than Pyrenees. I'm not doubting your opinions. I'm just genuinely curious, since we have similar tastes in coasters. The only thing I can think is that the older more forceful B&M coasters really shine in the back row, where the forces are the most extreme. And during an ERT session on a group tour fewer people will get the chance to ride in the back. I'd imagine that a lot more enthusiasts (at least those from Europe) have been to Italy without a big group than have been to the middle of nowhere in Japan!

 

Because I enjoyed Katun much more and found it to be more forceful and I prefer the last row. I rode both about 10-12 times and each in multiple rows. We had ERT on both. At Parque Espana the park was empty that day at Mirabilandia we had front of the line V-PAss. It is possible that non-full trains on Pyrenees affected the coaster's performance.

 

To all of you who have ridden more than one mega-lite, is there really any difference between them?

 

I found the three Mega Lites I've ridden (Piraten and the two in China) to be about the same; so, I grouped them together on my ballot.

 

I also find them to be the same and grouped them all within one place of each other. For the most part the ones I rode in better weather made for a more enjoyable experience, so Piraten which was ridden on a chilly morning is the fourth of the Mega Lites on my list.

Edited March 7, 2013 by larrygator

[_koppen]

I'm guessing that it's just not flipping as much as it did in the first year, like on that legendary TPR Scandi tour, which everyone raves about. I know that when I went two years ago with ACE, we weren't getting nearly the crazy rides we'd heard about, no matter how much we tried to unbalance the ride. I wonder if it has just gotten less flippy with time, or if the park has adjusted it to lessen the flipping. I know that outside of our ERT session, the park wasn't allowing unbalanced rides.

 

You are correct that Insane has been adjusted or "neutered" not to spin as much.

 

It was a little bit because people complained about the ride being a bit uncomfortable, but mostly because it was pretty tough for the ride attendants to fill up the wagons, since they only allowed cars with 2 or 4 passenger in it, splitting up groups and couples.

 

Now they can send them out with all from 1-4 riders in them, simplifying the job for the crew and upping the capacity. The only combination that they won't allow is 2 on one side and none on the other.

Edited March 7, 2013 by _koppen

[_koppen]

It wasn't a "complete exaggeration" when I rode it back in 2008--easily the dullest B&M ride out there (which was sad, because it certainly looked great, as does the disappointing Thunder Dolphin in Japan).

 

I wished I could have ridden it a few years earlier to compare to how it was this fall.

I got one ride on it were only the MCBR braked the ride slightly, and there wasn't that much of a difference compared to when all the trims touched. I can imagine that it most have been pretty heavily trimmed earlier.

[matteocrepaldi]

I'm always very happy to see both iSpeed and Katun in the top 10! On the other hand it's a bit sad to see that the best coaster at Gardaland is not even in the top 100.

[shivtim]

I'll be interested to see how Superman at Six Flags Mexico ranks next year, assuming enough people on the TPR Mexico trip fill out the ballot. I thought it was awesome and ranked it in my top 15, but the only other person to ride it put it pretty far down on his list (behind Mamba, Steel Force, Steel Dragon 2000, Steel Eel, and Wild Thing).

Same with Montana Infinitum, which only had 3 riders and was ranked #4, #32, and #152.

[SharkTums]

I'm a bit late to this as I've been super busy but just wanted to throw in some thoughts...

 

1. Go Intamin! Seriously, all you have to look at is this poll to see what awesome rides they are building! Keep it up guys!

 

2. Shambhala at 6?!?!?! LOL!!! Please! This is just a pathetic attempt from the Europeans or those enthusiasts who don't like Intamin to try and skew the poll. This will for sure be out of the top 10 if not even top 20 next year.

 

3. Go RMC! Can't wait to see how your new rides stack up! I have a feeling we'll see those in the top 10-20 next year for sure!

 

4. Note to self - Make sure to talk to Grona Lund about putting Insane back in Insane mode before our visit next year.

 

5. Thanks Mitch!

[robbalvey]

Larry, if you're reading this, I'd love it if you explained why you put Katun so much higher than Pyrenees. I'm not doubting your opinions. I'm just genuinely curious, since we have similar tastes in coasters. The only thing I can think is that the older more forceful B&M coasters really shine in the back row, where the forces are the most extreme. And during an ERT session on a group tour fewer people will get the chance to ride in the back. I'd imagine that a lot more enthusiasts (at least those from Europe) have been to Italy without a big group than have been to the middle of nowhere in Japan!

I ranked both Pyrenees and Katun as a tie for #12 on my ballot. I don't think one is better than the other, and I completely disagree that the difference between a front seat ride or a back seat ride makes THAT much difference. I also disagree that most coasters run significantly better at night than during the day. (Which is something I know you bring up a lot)

 

Personally, I feel that if a coaster is awesome, you should be able to ride it in a middle seat at three o'clock in the afternoon and it blows you away. If you need to ride a coaster in a specific seat, on a certain day, at a certain time, when the moon and planets are aligned correctly, I actually give it LESS points, even if it's a ride I like better under those conditions.

 

A roller coaster should be AWESOME.... ALL THE TIME for it to be worthy of my "top" list.

 

--Robb

[shivtim]

Yeah I wonder about Shambhala too.

48 people put it on their ballots, but of those, only 22 of them had been on at least 50 coasters. So there were a lot of inexperienced riders who put it as their number 1 or 2. On the other hand, there were several very experienced riders who had it in their top 5, and there were only 3 people that didn't put it in their top 10 (they had it at #18, #20, and #26). So I'd guess it's probably the best B&M hypercoaster to date, but also got a boost from being #1 or #2 on 25 people's ballots, most of whom have very limited track records.

Anyone who has ridden Shambhala want to chime-in?

[andybarnes84]

As someone who has actually ridden Shambhala, I think it's fully deserving of its high ranking. I preferred it to Nemesis but would put it behind Expedition GeForce, so these results reflect my opinion quite nicely.

 

I think it's worth saying that I didn't expect Shambhala to be that great at all. Having ridden Silverstar and finding it forceless and boring I was expecting more of the same, but Shambhala pleasantly surprised me. It's not an intense coaster as such but the first drop lasts forever and the amount of sustained floater airtime it offers is incredible. And for people that say that B&M don't do ejector airtime, the speed hill has it in spades.

 

Shambhala is like a refined cocktail of airtime. An Intamin coaster such as EGF is more like a hard spirit. If you don't go for cocktails, that's fine but that doesn't mean the people that do are wrong to do so. In any case, I'd recommend riding it before passing judgement, it definitely surprised me.

 

Everything I've heard and read suggests the same thing, that Shambala is a bit of an exception to the rule for new B&M Hypers. Looking forward to trying it out next month to make up my own mind.

Edited March 7, 2013 by andybarnes84

[vacoaster09]

Didn't shambhala have downtime issues this past season?

[televisedconfession]

Personally, I feel that if a coaster is awesome, you should be able to ride it in a middle seat at three o'clock in the afternoon and it blows you away. If you need to ride a coaster in a specific seat, on a certain day, at a certain time, when the moon and planets are aligned correctly, I actually give it LESS points, even if it's a ride I like better under those conditions.

 

A roller coaster should be AWESOME.... ALL THE TIME for it to be worthy of my "top" list.

 

--Robb

 

I agree Robb. I think it's a glass half empty and half full kind of scenario.

Some people see a certain row as making a coaster better, when others can look at it more realistically as being in other rows kind of bring it down. Manta for example, I think it's a great ride, but you in order to make it a great ride, you have to be in the back, otherwise it's middle of the ground coaster for me (I'm not a big flying coaster fan as it is). Some people bump a coaster up on their list because that back row or front row was OMFG great to them, but to me it seems as if I have to force myself to a seat for the ride to be good, then it's not a truly amazing ride.

[hyyyper]

I'm not surprised Shambhala is ranked so high. I liked it a lot, and while it certainly isn't the B&M around, I like it better than any Intamin I've ridden.

[David H]

Larry, if you're reading this, I'd love it if you explained why you put Katun so much higher than Pyrenees. I'm not doubting your opinions. I'm just genuinely curious, since we have similar tastes in coasters. The only thing I can think is that the older more forceful B&M coasters really shine in the back row, where the forces are the most extreme. And during an ERT session on a group tour fewer people will get the chance to ride in the back. I'd imagine that a lot more enthusiasts (at least those from Europe) have been to Italy without a big group than have been to the middle of nowhere in Japan!

 

Because I enjoyed Katun much more and found it to be more forceful and I prefer the last row. I rode both about 10-12 times and each in multiple rows. We had ERT on both. At Parque Espana the park was empty that day at Mirabilandia we had front of the line V-PAss. It is possible that non-full trains on Pyrenees affected the coaster's performance.

 

Weird. I rode both a bunch of time on both visits, and I really loved both of them, but Pyrenees just blew me away both times. Especially in the back row left going through the SNAPS of the cobra roll and the strong positive G's of the helix right after it. On my first visit, all of the trains were fairly full, but last year (about a week after TPR China), the park was DEAD, and a lot of the trains were half full or less. And I still thought it was more powerful than full trains on Katun. But when the trains were mostly full, DAMN! Maybe I hit it on good days?

 

You understand that I wasn't being confrontational or doubting your opinion. I was genuinely curious, since we seem to have similar tastes in coasters.

 

I'm guessing that it's just not flipping as much as it did in the first year, like on that legendary TPR Scandi tour, which everyone raves about. I know that when I went two years ago with ACE, we weren't getting nearly the crazy rides we'd heard about, no matter how much we tried to unbalance the ride. I wonder if it has just gotten less flippy with time, or if the park has adjusted it to lessen the flipping. I know that outside of our ERT session, the park wasn't allowing unbalanced rides.

 

You are correct that Insane has been adjusted or "neutered" not to spin as much.

 

It was a little bit because people complained about the ride being a bit uncomfortable, but mostly because it was pretty tough for the ride attendants to fill up the wagons, since they only allowed cars with 2 or 4 passenger in it, splitting up groups and couples.

 

Now they can send them out with all from 1-4 riders in them, simplifying the job for the crew and upping the capacity. The only combination that they won't allow is 2 on one side and none on the other.

 

That makes a lot more sense to me. After all the raving we'd heard about it, a lot of us were expecting more. And only a couple of people said they got really crazy rides. It's a shame that the park felt they had to neuter the ride, but I can understand why they did. but look at the rankings to see the results. After all, it should probably be a lot lower, since a bunch of the riders probably rode it before it was neutered.

[Intimidator305]

And this is why the Mitch Hawker poll should be praised more than the Golden Ticket Awards. I'm loving the list this year for the most part.

[Condor]

In fact Monster at Walyator Park, which is a clone of Raptor, ranks 20 spots higher which is interesting.

 

Just a side-note on this. But Walygator is too cheap to use a midcourse or three trains. Where Raptor's midcourse is, Monster just has straight track with no brakes. It's possible that the Walygator version ranks higher because it potentially runs faster in the second half.

 

I have not been on Monster, so that is just me speculating/guessing.

 

Those who did the 2012 Europe trip mostly said that the 2nd half was really good due to the lack of the MCBR.

 

Does Raptor's MCBR come on that hard now? I rode it many times from 2000-2004 but not since. I remember back then the train breezed right through and the MCBR shaved off only a couple mph at most. Finally returning to CP this year, so I hope it's not the case.

[PKI Jizzman]

I'm a bit late to this as I've been super busy but just wanted to throw in some thoughts...

 

1. Go Intamin! Seriously, all you have to look at is this poll to see what awesome rides they are building! Keep it up guys!

 

2. Shambhala at 6?!?!?! LOL!!! Please! This is just a pathetic attempt from the Europeans or those enthusiasts who don't like Intamin to try and skew the poll. This will for sure be out of the top 10 if not even top 20 next year.

 

3. Go RMC! Can't wait to see how your new rides stack up! I have a feeling we'll see those in the top 10-20 next year for sure!

 

4. Note to self - Make sure to talk to Grona Lund about putting Insane back in Insane mode before our visit next year.

 

5. Thanks Mitch!

 

I really hope the results aren't being skewed by Europeans with vendettas againsts Intamin or boners for B&M coasters. That's just plain unhealthy and sounds rediculous. Some coaster fans love B&M's and Intamin equally, some love Intamin wayyyy more. I think the Intamin fans stick out more.

[TyRush]

I think overall certain people like their own style, and i think the Intamin vs B&M "battle" is even. I love insane forcefull coasters(which is usually Intamin rides) and im sure there are plenty of people that perfer a nice and easy B&M. I wouldnt say all B&M's are tame, but to me, the majority seem that way(based on personal experience, and reviews). Only YOU personally can decide if a coaster is awesome or not.

[David H]

I ranked both Pyrenees and Katun as a tie for #12 on my ballot. I don't think one is better than the other, and I completely disagree that the difference between a front seat ride or a back seat ride makes THAT much difference. I also disagree that most coasters run significantly better at night than during the day. (Which is something I know you bring up a lot)

 

Personally, I feel that if a coaster is awesome, you should be able to ride it in a middle seat at three o'clock in the afternoon and it blows you away. If you need to ride a coaster in a specific seat, on a certain day, at a certain time, when the moon and planets are aligned correctly, I actually give it LESS points, even if it's a ride I like better under those conditions.

 

A roller coaster should be AWESOME.... ALL THE TIME for it to be worthy of my "top" list.

 

--Robb

 

Well, I never said that either Katun or Pyrenees aren't AWESOME.... ALL THE TIME. I just said that sometimes they're even MORE awesome. I've found that to be true of just about every coaster on the planet. I'd honestly rather ride either coaster in ANY seat than the best seat on just about any other coaster. But I'd still rather sit in the back row of either of them.

 

I mean, take Phoenix, a coaster that is universally loved among coaster enthusiasts, although some certainly like it more than others. It's awesome anywhere on the ride. But it's even more awesome in the front or back car. And I personally think that it's way more awesome at night. And apparently, most enthusiast agree with me, since those cars have significantly longer waits at enthusiast events. I actually did an unintentional experiment at one Phunphest one year. I'm not sure if you were there the year that I dressed as a nun. But I was wearing a cross around my neck. And I was able to measure the airtime by how high the cross went. It clearly went much higher in the front car, and the highest in seat 3. The difference was noticeable and consistent through several rides. As such, I can confidently say that there is more airtime in seat 3, although it's still a great ride anywhere.

 

I actually did ride Pyrenees in the middle a handful of times -- mainly because their operations were so piss-poor that I knew that if I filled in an empty seat in the middle, I'd still have time to get off, go all the way out the exit and back through the entire queue before they even started loading the same train! So there was no point in waiting for the next train, because I'd get on it anyways! And since they usually assign seating from the front back, I'd still make it in the back anyways. And it was still a great ride. But it definitely pulls a lot more G's in the back, as do most B&M's.

 

We can disagree on whether or not the ride is "better" in different seats. But one thing is inherently true. It can be measured on an accelerometer that most looping coasters will pull more positive G's in the back seat than in the middle or towards the front. That's because it's going to be going faster when the whole train is going downhill, rather than when part of it is still going uphill. The back of the train is still going through the inversion as it hits its top speed, whereas the front is already out of it and is most likely on straight track, which will be less forceful.

 

With airtime coasters, the physics are completely different, but the negative G's tend to be maximized towards the front or the back of the train at different points on the hill. Although in the middle, you get somewhat less specific forces, but they're more balanced.

 

We can also disagree on whether or not coasters are better at night. I bring it up a lot because I've personally experienced it a lot. But it can also be proven empirically that they run FASTER as the day goes on. Quite a few coasters have been timed throughout the day, and they usually are running faster the longer they've been running. To be honest, I don't completely understand the physics of it, but the coaster cars and/or the track can somewhat "break in." This effect seems to be much more pronounced on wood coasters. On steel coasters, it's usually more a matter of them breaking in a bit after a few rides after they first open. For some reason, on wood coasters, the effect continues throughout the day. Like I said, several parks have timed their coasters, and they do get faster. This isn't something a few coaster nerds just made up. It's a measurable fact, at least on some wooden coasters. Again, we can disagree on whether that makes them better. We can also disagree about how much of a difference it actually makes.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you here. I'm just explaining why I feel the way I do. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. And we mostly agree 80-90% of the time. But understand that I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my ass!

[_koppen]

 

That makes a lot more sense to me. After all the raving we'd heard about it, a lot of us were expecting more. And only a couple of people said they got really crazy rides. It's a shame that the park felt they had to neuter the ride, but I can understand why they did. but look at the rankings to see the results. After all, it should probably be a lot lower, since a bunch of the riders probably rode it before it was neutered.

 

I don't really think the park decided to neuter it, it's just small adjustments made over time into what it is now.

 

The ride is still crazy fun, and it has helped with removing a few of the really uncomfortable positions that could occur at a few specific points on the track. Plus I almost haven't seen any cars coming in upside down this year, that might be a reason to.

 

And I'm sure that for TPR ERT they will let you ride with only 2 persons, both on the same side.

[rollin_n_coastin]

As someone who has actually ridden Shambhala, I think it's fully deserving of its high ranking. I preferred it to Nemesis but would put it behind Expedition GeForce, so these results reflect my opinion quite nicely.

 

I think it's worth saying that I didn't expect Shambhala to be that great at all. Having ridden Silverstar and finding it forceless and boring I was expecting more of the same, but Shambhala pleasantly surprised me. It's not an intense coaster as such but the first drop lasts forever and the amount of sustained floater airtime it offers is incredible. And for people that say that B&M don't do ejector airtime, the speed hill has it in spades.

 

Shambhala is like a refined cocktail of airtime. An Intamin coaster such as EGF is more like a hard spirit. If you don't go for cocktails, that's fine but that doesn't mean the people that do are wrong to do so. In any case, I'd recommend riding it before passing judgement, it definitely surprised me.

 

Everything I've heard and read suggests the same thing, that Shambala is a bit of an exception to the rule for new B&M Hypers. Looking forward to trying it out next month to make up my own mind.

 

Definitely not an exception to the rule...the only forceful seats are the very last car. It rides very similar to every modern B&M mega or giga but the cool turnaround, theming and other things that CGM mentions push it over the top over other modern B&Ms, even over Leviathan and Behemoth. It's definitely not Dragon Khan or Nemesis. Any Intamin or old school B&M will be much more forceful.

[televisedconfession]

In fact Monster at Walyator Park, which is a clone of Raptor, ranks 20 spots higher which is interesting.

 

Just a side-note on this. But Walygator is too cheap to use a midcourse or three trains. Where Raptor's midcourse is, Monster just has straight track with no brakes. It's possible that the Walygator version ranks higher because it potentially runs faster in the second half.

 

I have not been on Monster, so that is just me speculating/guessing.

 

Those who did the 2012 Europe trip mostly said that the 2nd half was really good due to the lack of the MCBR.

 

Does Raptor's MCBR come on that hard now? I rode it many times from 2000-2004 but not since. I remember back then the train breezed right through and the MCBR shaved off only a couple mph at most. Finally returning to CP this year, so I hope it's not the case.

 

I've been on it when it kinda coasts through the MCBR too, but Monster in general just travels much faster, and at the end it just climaxes to the final break run. It's SO interesting how much difference the lack of MCBR makes on that ride. It's like the ride never even takes a breather. Those extra MPH really make a difference.