Jump to content
  TPR Home | Parks | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube | Instagram 

Arrow Loop Height


Recommended Posts

Don't forget the Anton coasters. They were (and still are!) plenty smooth (Yet still feel like a roller coaster - I'm not dissing B&M of course... I just lied.)

 

Anton didn't get into corkscrews, boomerangs, bowties, or any other kind of inversion on his coasters so is that a legitimate comparison? Anton only perfected the vertical loop whereas Arrow went with the clothoid teardrop shaped loops.

 

Very good point. Each designer has their pros and cons. Arrow rides are fun, but I'm a big time Anton fanboy. Everything about them; the track and structure are built to flex (at built-in joints); those old trains are so darn comfy. I used to think Anton didn't do corkscrews early on because there was some sort of Arrow patent (but I really have no clue).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 63
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I knew Toomer couldn't ride any of his rides, but man, you'd think someone would of told him over the 20+ years he was designing coasters that the transitions didn't feel right.

Back when they were by far the biggest player in town for mega-looper style rides, Ron was told by his own engineering team on more than one occasion that it was time to invest in better design practices and software. As their rides got bigger, the impacts of inaccuracies and quirks baked into their engineering process and infrastructure were growing as well.

 

But Arrow did not seriously pursue a major engineering overhaul until years later. It was a business decision driven by the knowledge that such a project would be neither free, nor instant, nor devoid of risk. (Cue comments about the cost, timing, and risk inherent in the path the company did take...)

 

I don't know enough to believe the narrative that says Ron put up an ill-considered roadblock himself, though that was strongly suggested to me at the time. There actually are other plausible explanations for why things happened the way they did, and I've given enough voice to the one above already. Anyway, we all saw where it led.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of those loops look like they're at the minimum radius limit of the train. That's why they're so similar.

 

Drachen Fire could have definitely used some better padding (or no OTSR), in fact the OTSRs were the hardest, worst shaped I've ever seen, unless you were tall enough to completely clear them. I loved the ride and still once thought I'd permanently damaged my neck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, if you look at Olympia Loopon, I believe the fourth loop is looking a bit like a corkscrew/half loop, maybe it's the fifth, but RD would clear that up for sure.

 

I believe its the first one (The black one) it goes up kind of like a normal loop, then twists out. And, on the thriller (Texas Tornado, Zonga, Tsunami, or whatever its called this week), the last two inversions were very corkscrewish. Schwarzkopf's large portable attractions seems to be the ones he upped his game on and deviated away from loop and leaned more towards the corkscrew.

 

PS. Just a sidenote, after I saw the video of Robb and Piers riding it, I to this day call it 'Olimpia Loopon' and often quote, "Something TERRIBLE has happened!!!"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And then there was this idea:

 

 

I always wondered where RCT3 got the figure 8 inversion from (odd they put it on the hyper track instead of the Schwarzkopf Looping coaster track now that I know this is a Schwarzkopf design).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is something I have often wondered about. In the latter year Arrows starting with Desperado (I think), they used more rounded ties. Does anyone know why they used these?

 

One reason might be the cutting tools they were using. Older stamping machines that cut straight lines... perhaps the newer machines cut in different ways and were able to cut a smooth curve. I also think the stresses in the track ties would have less high stress points. Notice Morgan later used single flat pieces for track ties. Much less welding than the complex old school Arrow ties; someone was did their homework!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And then there was this idea:

 

 

I always wondered where RCT3 got the figure 8 inversion from (odd they put it on the hyper track instead of the Schwarzkopf Looping coaster track now that I know this is a Schwarzkopf design).

This is reminiscent of shambhala's turn stretched upright...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is something I have often wondered about. In the latter year Arrows starting with Desperado (I think), they used more rounded ties. Does anyone know why they used these?

I'm late to the party on this thread but what a great topic. As an Arrow fan boy myself, this is great stuff.

 

Regarding the ties, I'm no engineering expert, but I suspect the reason for the change was increased structural strength. My money says the rounded lower edges are structurally stronger than the square ones and transmitted the load from the tie to the main support better. As Arrow coasters got bigger and faster, everyone knows there were problems with stress fractures, especially in the loops. If you look at the picture of the original GASM loop in the monkey cage, you'll notice one of the ties near the top is primered. That has to be a fracture repair. I would argue that the design of the square ties meant the load from the wheel rail had nowhere to go or was not as easily carried through the tie and to the main track beam (which is ultimately what needs to carry the load). Since all that energy had now where to go (or wasn't allow to go where it needed to go efficiently enough) the ties ultimately fractured right at the top.

 

Take a look at the "new" track on Phantoms Revenges. Exactly the same shape as the later Arrow ties, although the Morgan ties are one piece instead of a three piece welded design like Arrow used.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The newer Arrow ties were actually bent out of 1 piece of square tubing, and what RandyV said, it was pretty much to transfer more forces from the train into the main support spine. Basically forces try to go in the most easiest direction it can. With the old "L" shaped one, it pretty much put most of the force on that welded corner, basically causing it to try and bend down and out, creating the weak point seen fixed on a few Arrow coasters between the tie and the spine. Whereas the newer "U" shaped one, the force is transferred almost directly into the spine cause of it being in 1 continuous piece and the forces more concentrated on the center of the spine where it's stronger.

 

Also I can see it could of helped manufacturing out a lot too. Basically required bending 1 piece of steel to form the ties vs cutting and welding multiple parts together to form one. Now with the advancement of computers doing the cutting and calculating on how the ties, rails, and spine are connected together, things like what Arrow used to do have pretty much became obsolete. I think Vekoma is one of the few remaining companies that still bend and make all of the track by hand using plumb bobs and measurements marked on the ground. B&M is mainly top secret on how they make and bend their track with only a few process of it being shown public, but as they've shown over the past 20 years, their coasters are some, if not the best in the industry for still being smooth after years in operation. Intamin's track manufacturing still puzzles me though. They're the only ones I haven't seen their manufacturing process shown. Their track is very simplistic, but is probably one of the best in terms of how forces are transferred on it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use https://themeparkreview.com/forum/topic/116-terms-of-service-please-read/