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My point is simply that statistic, math, analysis, etc should play a big role in how you think about baseball and what decisions you make.

 

By your rationale, why do I get the feeling anybody who ever went into a slump would be benched for the remainder of the season?

 

How would that be my rationale? I'm saying I base my decisions on statistical and mathematical analysis, how is that bad? What should you base your decisions on, your gut? How do you think managers decide which reliever to take into the game?

 

Do you even understand the math and statistics behind the game and how to use them? Some of the advanced statistics and analysis are very accurate and very complex, we aren't talking about fielding %.

 

I'm also not suggesting you make decisions based only on stats, there are a lot of factors, I'm simply saying that situations aren't always what they seem and that it's more important to make informed decisions on actual data rather than just tradition.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabermetrics

 

Check out exactly what Sabermetrics are and how they are used. You can say all you want, but the fact remains that sabermetrics are very accurate and do a good job of making predictions. No amount of trying to belittle me will change that, it's fact. Stop living in the past and accept modern thought.

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He's using Wiki as a reference. I rest my case.

 

 

 

It's a point of reference, if you want to actual get detail, there are loads of sites and books you can look at. Instead of explaining WHY you don't think sabermetrics is accurate or useful, your just going to point out the site I linked? Doesn't sound like much of a rebuttal.

 

As for sports ruling peoples lives, I enjoy sports, but I am not afraid to get engaged in discussion when people are incorrect.

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How would that be my rationale? I'm saying I base my decisions on statistical and mathematical analysis, how is that bad? What should you base your decisions on, your gut? How do you think managers decide which reliever to take into the game?

 

Do you even understand the math and statistics behind the game and how to use them? Some of the advanced statistics and analysis are very accurate and very complex, we aren't talking about fielding %.

 

So basically, for instance, what you're implying by this ridiculous statement is that theoretically, based on A-Rod's postseason statistical history, he really shouldn't have been in the Yanks' postseason lineup this year? Analyze that.

 

I'm also not suggesting you make decisions based only on stats,

 

Actually, you're using them as a huge crutch to support a ridiculous argument. You're outnumbered only about 6 to 1 though, but who's counting, right?

 

 

 

 

I'm done. It just seems that debating sports with you is like having phone sex with a deaf girl.

 

No worries. Time to move on.......or advance to second on a sac bunt.

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BeemerBoy, do you realize that MANY MLB GM's use Sabermetrics? Do you realize that a lot of AL teams rarely bunt because they realize it generally isn't the right decision?

 

As for the "6 on 1", just because a number of people believe in something doesn't make it true. Everyone but very few thought the Earth was the center of the solar system and ridiculed the few that knew the Sun was, it didn't make the majority right. Heck, the majority of the people on this planet believe in god, that doesn't mean there is a god.

 

Anyways, this is a theme park site, I don't expect the people here to be sports/math savy. However, go on any good baseball forum and I'm sure you will be in the minority. In all of the baseball forums I post on (or any sport for that matter) the overwhelming majority believe Sabermetrics and statistical/mathematical analysis to be important. Things like RAR (runs above replacement player), WAR (Wins above replacement player), FRAA (Fielding Runs Above Average based on UZR), etc are all extremely important when comparing players and it is exactly these things that a lot of GMs use. Theo Epstein of the Red Sox is famous for using Sabermetrics. Are you seriously about to say he doesn't have a clue about baseball.

 

You yourself said baseball guru's use this stuff, yet you don't agree with it. However, you can't lend ANY insight as to why it's wrong. It's because it isn't wrong. I actually used a baseball forum to find info on bunting success in the majors and they found it funny that people still refuse to accept sabermetrics.

 

I implore you to go on any good baseball forum or talk to any baseball guru's about sabermetrics. Do some research before claiming something is wrong and trying to belittle people.

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Boston fans need to be quiet now its Yankees time. WOOO!!

 

It isn't even about Boston, it's about baseball in general. I just can't stand being belittled because someone is ignorant to what they are talking about. DO YOUR RESEARCH

Here are a TON of links that discuss sabermetrics:

http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/sabermetrics.htm

http://www-math.bgsu.edu/~albert/papers/saber.html

http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/grabiner/manifesto.html

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/?column=31

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/sabermetrics-in-the-mainstream

baseball prospectus and fangraphs have almost limitless amount of information and stats, they are two great sites.

 

Behind-The-Scenes is also a great book that details how teams use statistical analysis in building and managing teams and in-game situations. There is also a very interesting sections that discuss teams that failed to follow the stats and suffered because of it.

 

Anyways, Congrats to the Yankees. They realized they had holes in the off-season and went out and got difference makers. They deserve this. I only hope this makes Theo active this offseason. What a way to open the New Yankee Stadium.

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Theo Epstein of the Red Sox is famous for using Sabermetrics. Are you seriously about to say he doesn't have a clue about baseball.

 

How did that, we don't need a closer experiment work?

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BeemerBoy, do you realize that MANY MLB GM's use Sabermetrics? Do you realize that a lot of AL teams rarely bunt because they realize it generally isn't the right decision?

 

As for the "6 on 1", just because a number of people believe in something doesn't make it true. Everyone but very few thought the Earth was the center of the solar system and ridiculed the few that knew the Sun was, it didn't make the majority right. Heck, the majority of the people on this planet believe in god, that doesn't mean there is a god.

 

Anyways, this is a theme park site, I don't expect the people here to be sports/math savy. However, go on any good baseball forum and I'm sure you will be in the minority. In all of the baseball forums I post on (or any sport for that matter) the overwhelming majority believe Sabermetrics and statistical/mathematical analysis to be important. Things like RAR (runs above replacement player), WAR (Wins above replacement player), FRAA (Fielding Runs Above Average based on UZR), etc are all extremely important when comparing players and it is exactly these things that a lot of GMs use. Theo Epstein of the Red Sox is famous for using Sabermetrics. Are you seriously about to say he doesn't have a clue about baseball.

 

You yourself said baseball guru's use this stuff, yet you don't agree with it. However, you can't lend ANY insight as to why it's wrong. It's because it isn't wrong. I actually used a baseball forum to find info on bunting success in the majors and they found it funny that people still refuse to accept sabermetrics.

 

I implore you to go on any good baseball forum or talk to any baseball guru's about sabermetrics. Do some research before claiming something is wrong and trying to belittle people.

 

First, nothing like proving your point by insulting. It is a theory that can not be proven right or wrong. Plus, your info was from a group that is pro-sabermetrics. Here is a wonderful anti-sabermetrics article

 

http://www.tnr.com/article/against-moneyball

 

The article is the truth. Some random stats can not fight money. Money, like in life, is what produces results. Just ask the Yankees.

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BeemerBoy, do you realize that MANY MLB GM's use Sabermetrics? Do you realize that a lot of AL teams rarely bunt because they realize it generally isn't the right decision?

 

As for the "6 on 1", just because a number of people believe in something doesn't make it true. Everyone but very few thought the Earth was the center of the solar system and ridiculed the few that knew the Sun was, it didn't make the majority right. Heck, the majority of the people on this planet believe in god, that doesn't mean there is a god.

 

Anyways, this is a theme park site, I don't expect the people here to be sports/math savy. However, go on any good baseball forum and I'm sure you will be in the minority. In all of the baseball forums I post on (or any sport for that matter) the overwhelming majority believe Sabermetrics and statistical/mathematical analysis to be important. Things like RAR (runs above replacement player), WAR (Wins above replacement player), FRAA (Fielding Runs Above Average based on UZR), etc are all extremely important when comparing players and it is exactly these things that a lot of GMs use. Theo Epstein of the Red Sox is famous for using Sabermetrics. Are you seriously about to say he doesn't have a clue about baseball.

 

You yourself said baseball guru's use this stuff, yet you don't agree with it. However, you can't lend ANY insight as to why it's wrong. It's because it isn't wrong. I actually used a baseball forum to find info on bunting success in the majors and they found it funny that people still refuse to accept sabermetrics.

 

I implore you to go on any good baseball forum or talk to any baseball guru's about sabermetrics. Do some research before claiming something is wrong and trying to belittle people.

 

First, nothing like proving your point by insulting. It is a theory that can not be proven right or wrong. Plus, your info was from a group that is pro-sabermetrics. Here is a wonderful anti-sabermetrics article

 

http://www.tnr.com/article/against-moneyball

 

The article is the truth. Some random stats can not fight money. Money, like in life, is what produces results. Just ask the Yankees.

 

I'm not just talking about moneyball. Moneyball IS NOT sabermetrics. Moneyball is a baseball philosophy on building a team that in corperates some sabermetrics. Sabermetrics themselves are not "wrong". I agree that a 100% moneyball approach won't likely result in a championship caliber team, but the concept are very valuable. It works great when you don't have the money (Rays).

 

Again though, sabermetrics themselves aren't debatable. If you don't want to use them, fine, but you can't argue that their not accurate or don't do well with predictions.

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^ I can argue it with this article http://www.pottstownmercury.com/articles/2009/10/14/sports/doc4ad5c2c693540620466010.txt

 

That is from the players themselves. I'm going to take their word over a baseball nerd who, odds are, has never played past high school (talking stats people, not directed at you.)

 

I'm done with this discussion as well, as it is hard to do in a non-conversation way. When discussing philosophies, it is better to do so in person.

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^ I can argue it with this article http://www.pottstownmercury.com/articles/2009/10/14/sports/doc4ad5c2c693540620466010.txt

 

That is from the players themselves. I'm going to take their word over a baseball nerd who, odds are, has never played past high school (talking stats people, not directed at you.)

 

I'm done with this discussion as well, as it is hard to do in a non-conversation way. When discussing philosophies, it is better to do so in person.

 

Again, that would be about moneyball, not sabermetrics. Sabermetrics are about trying to figure out the worth of a player. It's useful when you are trying to figure out which player to keep, which free agent to go after, etc. Chemistry does play a big part, but I don't think the Phillies are a good example against Moneyball. They had the best lineup in the NL (one of the best in the majors), so it is no surprise they went to the WS. In fact, just about every team that was expected to make the playoffs did and both the Yankees and Phillies were one of few teams expected to reach the WS.

 

I agree that chemistry is important and you can't predict everything. That said, it doesn't mean you should TRY to make good predictions and make decisions on analysis.

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This is still going?

 

Bill James and his armchair followers can go F themselves. There's more to the game than stats.

 

Moneyball was one of the worst things to happen to the casual baseball fan. Now we have all these schmucks that think everything can be determined by obscure stats, say like someone posting in here.

hey now... as a math and econ nerd, I love stat analysis and the things that you mentioned. I don't necessarily agree with them completely, but there are interesting nonetheless. the jew in me likes the idea of getting more for less (and I love my Marlins for pumping out more wins/dollar spent than anyone )

 

He's using Wiki as a reference. I rest my case.

Weak point, Matt. That may have been a valid point in 2004, but today, its a pretty reputable source for information.. just sayin'

 

Do you realize that a lot of AL teams rarely bunt because they realize it generally isn't the right decision?

Or because, again, different styles of play

 

 

I like a lot of things... stats, scouts and bunting. I think you can have all this work together.

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He's using Wiki as a reference. I rest my case.

Weak point, Matt. That may have been a valid point in 2004, but today, its a pretty reputable source for information.. just sayin'

 

If you can't use it as a source on research papers, it isn't a reputable source.

 

I dare you to cite wikipedia in a thesis and/or a whatever they write to become a PHD

 

In 4 years of college every professor told us that the paper would receive an F if wiki was cited, not what I call reputable.

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First, nothing like proving your point by insulting. It is a theory that can not be proven right or wrong.

 

It's the way he works.

 

His eloquent way of speaking to us, has earned himself a nice timeout, as this is the second time this month he's used this tone with people that disagree with him on something sports related.

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If you can't use it as a source on research papers, it isn't a reputable source.

 

I dare you to cite wikipedia in a thesis and/or a whatever they write to become a PHD

 

In 4 years of college every professor told us that the paper would receive an F if wiki was cited, not what I call reputable.

 

I usually browse for sources by checking the bottom of the Wiki page on a given subject and use info/cite based on those.

 

Debating... with you is like having phone sex with a deaf girl.

 

I will henceforth attempt to work this phrase into daily conversation.

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If you can't use it as a source on research papers, it isn't a reputable source.

 

I dare you to cite wikipedia in a thesis and/or a whatever they write to become a PHD

 

In 4 years of college every professor told us that the paper would receive an F if wiki was cited, not what I call reputable.

 

I usually browse for sources by checking the bottom of the Wiki page on a given subject and use info/cite based on those.

 

Debating... with you is like having phone sex with a deaf girl.

 

I will henceforth attempt to work this phrase into daily conversation.

 

Oh yes the sources at the bottom are good just never cite wiki itself.

 

BTW I just want to throw out there that I am so glad the Yankees had the talent and experience to win because Girardi made a lot of mistakes, IMO of course hes the one paid to do it but I pay to complain about how they do their jobs

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