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I can only hope that Cliff and Pedro pull off a miracle comeback.

 

 

Even if the Phils get to a game 7, who's going to pitch then. Charlie didn't want to use Lee on 3 days rest, he damn sure isn't going to use him on 2. You can't give the ball back to Hamels, his season shold be done. Blanton was ok, but again only 3 days rest. Charlie is going to have to go with Happ, which is ok with me. BUT, you got to get to a game 7. Can soneone wake Howard up.

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Do the Yankees fans set the ticket prices, why should we be hated just because Steinbrenner is obsessed with money?

 

It goes well beyond that.

Yeah, I actually kind of respect Yankees fans for generally protesting the raping inside the moat, but still dislike them for the most part

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The Phillies are done. I don't think they have the pitching to pull themselves out of this hole. Cliff Lee looks amazing and Pedro looks sharp, but they really don't have any depth. You are starting to see why the National League is considered weak. I don't understand the hype that was Cole Hamels. He has one good pitch (changeup), one decent pitch (fastball), and his 3rd pitch is terrible (curveball).

 

Stranger things have happened, but the Yankees are just too stacked.

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I was very disappointed in today's loss I wanted the Yanks to win it all again so I could go to the parade Wednesday The problem with Burnett is that he is inconsistent. One game great, the next not so. I do like the last minute run production but it was two runs short. I was hoping for another A-Rod post season miracle. What pissed me off was that Matsui wasn't replaced with a runner & who could steal so Jeter wouldn't have hit the double play. Hopefully Andy pulls threw for us. Remember Pedro Who's Your Daddy!

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You are starting to see why the National League is considered weak.

Since when? Was the AL considered weak last year?

 

The winner has alternated from the AL and NL each of the past 4 (probably soon to be 5) seasons, with the NL taking 4 so far this decade and the AL taking 5. The two leagues play considerably different styles of baseball, and certain teams simply match up better against their opponents than others. That, to me, is more influential on who wins than what league they are from. The only real evidence you can make that claim with would be the recent all star game success for the AL, but that's still just an exhibition game.

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You are starting to see why the National League is considered weak.

Since when? Was the AL considered weak last year?

 

The winner has alternated from the AL and NL each of the past 4 (probably soon to be 5) seasons, with the NL taking 4 so far this decade and the AL taking 5. The two leagues play considerably different styles of baseball, and certain teams simply match up better against their opponents than others. That, to me, is more influential on who wins than what league they are from. The only real evidence you can make that claim with would be the recent all star game success for the AL, but that's still just an exhibition game.

 

Your joking, right? There is LOADS of data that shows that the AL has been the superior league for the last decade or so. The most telling data is interleague play (the AL has dominated) and players changing leagues. There has been LOADS of players who went to the NL and had career years (pitchers and hitters), while NL players didn't fare well switching to the AL. It's a bit late right now, so I can give a ton of examples in the morning if necessary. Just off the top of my head, though, are the Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia, Roger Clemens, Dan Haren, Josh Beckett, Rudy Seanez. I'll take a closer look in the morning.

 

No doubt that there is a lot of match up relevance between teams, but I think overall, the AL is the superior league. I also think going by the WS is too small a sample size. Last year, I think TB was too young. If the Red Sox had been healthy, we would have easily made it to the WS and likely have won it. In '06 the Tigers looked amazing in the playoffs, but I really do think their week long break killed them. In '01 and '03 we saw the results of offense vs pitching. The Diamonbacks and Marlins were built for pitching while the Yankees were not. The Yanks were certainly a powerhouse team, but a stacked lineup isn't as reliable as a stacked rotation.

 

The AL also tends to feature more powerhouse teams than the NL. I have found the road to the WS as been far tougher in the AL than the NL in the last decade.

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The biggest problem when comparing the NL vs AL in the interleauge play is the DH rule. AL teams are forced to bench a better fielder for their big hitter, plus their pitchers can't hit (minus CC.) For the NL, their DH is normally a joke.

 

To put this in perspective, this would like in the NFL having the AFC play with 10 players and NFC play with 11.

 

Outside of the ridiculous AL East, no one ever wants to win the AL Central and AL West is the LA Angels road show.

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Your joking, right? There is LOADS of data that shows that the AL has been the superior league for the last decade or so. It's a bit late right now, so I can give a ton of examples in the morning if necessary.

 

Yes, please enlighten us.

 

 

With the AL being the "superior league," it must suck for their teams. You know, year in and year out they must think it's clear sailing until they realize they have to play at least one more 7 game series to win the title. I mean, what a drag that the stupid inferior NL pennant winner keeps holding things up.

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Just off the top of my head, though, are the Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia, Roger Clemens, Dan Haren, Josh Beckett, Rudy Seanez. I'll take a closer look in the morning.

I'm confused - Lee wasn't great last year too? AL Cy? Sabathia did great in the NL last year but did you think maybe because he only saw each team about once? Didn't Clemens have a great career? Didn't Josh Beckett win a Cy Young in the AL?

 

You gave a list of pitchers whom you say did better in the NL. Now where is your list of hitters who did better in the AL? Again... 2 different types of leagues will benefit different players in different ways.

 

The Yanks were certainly a powerhouse team, but a stacked lineup isn't as reliable as a stacked rotation.

Fact #1: The Yankees as a team had a slightly lower team ERA than the Marlins that year

Fact #2: The Yankees outscored the Marlins in the series.

My opinion: Ask anyone in baseball if they'd rather have Clemens-Pettitte-Wells-Mussina or Beckett-Penny-Pavano-Redman and I doubt many will take the latter in 2003 (even if they were the winners )

 

The AL also tends to feature more powerhouse teams than the NL. I have found the road to the WS as been far tougher in the AL than the NL in the last decade.

So maybe the NL is just a bit more balanced? They actually have competitive divisions through September, and not just 1 or 2 teams at the top (and I'm not including the terrible AL central, where the only reason any of the teams are above .500 is because they play in that division) I'd argue that the NL has at least one powerhouse team that does in year-in, year-out, that being the Cardinals. The Dodgers and Phillies have been consistent in recent years, but admittedly not to the extent of the Yanks/Red Sox/Angels.

 

So yes, I believe your theory needs better support.

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Maybe I should have clarified "superior". I believe the AL is the better league, but they certainly aren't miles beyond the NL. The 2 leagues are still fairly close in talent, but the AL clearly has the edge. I wasn't trying to say that the NL is a joke compared to the AL. As for the different rules, I don't like having a pitcher hit. It's fun during interleague play, but I much prefer having a DH. From a fans perspective, who would you rather see at the plate 3-4 times a game, a pitcher or a David Ortiz? One of the reasons why the AL tends to have stronger teams is because they have an extra hitter. In the NL, you generally wont see a team with 9 good hitters, while in the AL is almost standard.

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I would much rather have a pitcher hit, that leads to more strategy near the end of the game when you have to pull the pitcher. With a DH the manager just has to keep the hitters in, no juggling of the lineup and double switches.

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I'd rather see a pitcher hit too. If a player only wants to play one side of the ball, play football.

 

Plus, it's not like a bat is foreign to these guys. Most of them grew up playing several different positions, and many of them were decent hitters even through college. I'm tired of seeing the position of pitcher become more and more specialized.

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Give me the pitcher hitting any day of the week. I have no interest in seeing a has-been trying to extend their career by hitting a HR or bust.

 

Plus, for the AL manager, there is really not much skill involved compared to the NL. In the AL, if a pitcher is ready to come out, out he goes. In the NL, there is how close to pitch's spot in the line-up, who is on the bench or should they make the double switch.

 

The biggest thing against the NL that most people have is they know nothing about the teams. Yeah people hear about the Cubs and select players, but that is it. With ESPN and various other channels of sports news, all you hear is Yankees or Red Sox. I mean, more people who who Joba Chamberlin is instead of Tim Lincecum, which says a lot.

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I agree with everyone on this page, though I think most fans prefer to go a game filled with home runs instead of a 2-1 game with 20 k's. Then again Juan Pierre is still my favorite player, so obviously I like bunting, stealing etc

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I don't like seeing pitchers hit. What if a pitcher is pitching great & then comes up to bat & gets nailed & ends up being hurt? It always scares me when the Yankees play in interleague play & the pitchers have to hit. Andy Pettitte, CC Sabathia, & A.J. Burnett all have played in the NL so they have experience but I would rather the pitcher rest their arm in between innings and not worry about batting during a game. Even though I'll still never get over Pettitte hitting that RBI in game 3

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^ Do you suggest that a pitcher throw from behind a bp net also? I'd wager that more NL pitchers miss time from getting nailed by line drives or stumbling off the mound to get a ball than they do because they were HBP. Instances like David Wright getting drilled and missing a lot of time this year are very rare.

 

Injuries happen to everyone, its as much a part of the game as is umpires missing calls (I, for one, do not want to take that human element out of the game. Balls/Strikes and Safe/Out should be sacred)

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So here is some data to support my stance that the AL is the better league:

 

Since 1991, the AL has won 11 championships and the NL 6. The AL won 56 WS games and the NL won 37 (.600%).

 

For Interleague play, since 1997, the AL holds a 1,674 to 1,534 lead. Since 2004, the AL has won 169 more interleague games than the NL.

 

Obviously the Al has won 12 straight All-star games, however I agree it really doesn't mean much.

 

The league averages (in hitting/pitching) really doesn't mean a whole lot. The AL obviously has the better hitting stats (avg, OPS, etc) than the NL. The one thing I found interesting, though, is pitching stats. Since 2000, the AL has averaged a 4.48 ERA compared to the NL 4.30 ERA. The AL is only .18 runs more, or a 4.2% increase. If you consider that the AL has a tougher lineup because they have to face an extra hitter, it suggests the AL to have stronger pitching (only a 4.2% higher ERA while they face a 12.5% increase in quality hitters).

 

The AL has had more "dominant" teams than the NL (90+ wins) since 2001 (40-29).

For the wild card, the AL wild card winner has averaged 96.4 wins (.600), the NL wild card winner has averaged 91.3 wins (.560).

 

For players switching leagues, I'll post their AL vs NL stats.

CC Sabathia (AL: 3.77 ERA, 2.59 SO/BB. NL: 1.65 ERA, 5.12 SO/BB)*

Josh Beckett (AL: 4.05 ERA, 9.0 SO/9. NL: 3.46 ERA, 8.2 SO/9)

Cliff Lee (AL: 4.01 ERA, 6.7 SO/9. NL: 3.39 ERA, 8.4 SO/9)*

Roger Clemens (AL: 3.21 ERA, NL: 2.40 ERA - did this late in his career).

Rudy Seanez (AL: 5.45 ERA, 1.51 SO/BB. NL: 3.62 ERA, 2.3 SO/BB)

Ted Lilly (AL: 4.52 ERA, 2.07 SO/BB. NL: 3.85 ERA, 3.27 SO/BB)

Joel Pineiro (AL: 4.50 ERA, 1.99 SO/BB. NL: 4.14 ERA, 3.05 SO/BB)

Brady Penny (BOS: 5.61 ERA, SFG: 2.59 ERA)*

John Smoltz (BOS: 8.32 ERA, 7.4 SO/9, STL: 4.26 ERA, 9.5 SO/9)*

Randy Johnson (AL: 3.6 ERA, 2.57 SO/BB. NL: 2.92 ERA, 4.6 SO/BB)

 

*small sample size. As for hitters, it appears that there really isn't much of a difference between leagues. The small differences may be accounted for by park factors, lineup spot, and pitching strength.

 

I think the DH makes a big difference. The NL team has a clear disadvantage when playing with a DH. That is why I believe the AL has had the edge on interleague matchups (regular and post season). On top of having an extra good hitter on the team, the AL pitcher also have the tougher experience. AL pitchers face the toughest lineups all year, where as NL pitchers get to work with a free out, thus it is more difficult for a NL pitcher to adjust to facing a DH.

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I don't like seeing pitchers hit. What if a pitcher is pitching great & then comes up to bat & gets nailed & ends up being hurt?

 

Then he gets hurt.

 

Another thing that bothers me is that the AL pitchers never have to stand in and face any retaliation from their own brushbacks, or beanings.

 

Time to level the playing field.

 

 

 

 

 

And for further fuel on the fire, modern day "closers" are probably the most overrated and unimpressive professional athletes out there. I liken them to NFL kickers and punters. Eventually being Hall of Fame eligible for one inning of work every other game or so is a joke.

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For Interleague play, since 1997, the AL holds a 1,674 to 1,534 lead.

The AL wins 52% of the time and that's DOMINATING?

 

Since 2004, the AL has won 169 more interleague games than the NL.

... meaning that the NL had a winning record vs the AL from 97-04?

 

(only a 4.2% higher ERA while they face a 12.5% increase in quality hitters).

Where does this 12.5% number come from?

 

For the wild card, the AL wild card winner has averaged 96.4 wins (.600), the NL wild card winner has averaged 91.3 wins (.560).

What about the teams that just barely miss the playoffs? The Giants had a better record than the Twins & Tigers, the Marlins had an equal record, and the Braves were only a game back.

 

Again... the AL has three excellent teams (one will be the WC since 2 are from the east). The NL has a lot of very good ones. Would you prefer balance all year, or having 162 games just be a formality to the postseason?

 

*small sample size. As for hitters, it appears that there really isn't much of a difference between leagues. The small differences may be accounted for by park factors, lineup spot, and pitching strength.

I'm glad you at least point this out, because you admit the most glaring differences are less firm evidence.

 

I'm sure you will find just as many hitters who improved upon going to the AL, just as you could find hitters who did better in the NL and pitchers who sucked in the NL.

 

Two different leagues with different styles of play yielding different results. I don't think I can really call either league better, though I do think the NL is more competitive and fun to watch for the entire year. I think I've said all I can say on this one.

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