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Efteling Discussion Thread

p. 74 - Nest, a new inclusive playground!

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As for Baron, let me share with you some of the quotes I was sent on Twitter, Facebook, and via email from Europeans since the layout was released:

 

"Have you seen the layout for Baron? Incredible! What do you think?"

"Please tell us your thoughts on Baron!"

"Please give Baron more love on TPR. It looks amazing."

"Check this out: The best looking roller coaster in the world!"

"Baron's theming is the best I've seen outside of Disney or Universal."

"Disney will be taking advise from Efteling after this ride."

"Please tell me you will be riding Baron opening year."

"Look at this the world's new #1 roller coaster!"

"I will only be riding one roller coaster this year and that is Baron."

 

--Robb

 

...But then again if we're going by Facebook and Twitter these are often not the pinnacle of human reason....one only has to look at the comments on all other rides to see that some people are clearly bananas

 

On the face of it, on this website I'd not seen any radical nuts regarding these European rides. People have been pretty reasonable on here I thought. Sure, there's enthusiasm, but primarily from people for whom Efteling is their local park, and are therefore going to be naturally excited

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^ Have you read the last few pages???

Yes, but I didn't think people were being unreasonable. I am excited, and it seems other people are too and I don't blame them, especially if it's their home park the ride is coming to. Unless I missed it I've not seen anyone here in the last few weeks at least claiming it'd actually be the best ride ever, just that they'd be excited by it and thought it looks 'great' or 'well themed'.

 

I totally agree with you that people are being fanatical on FB/Twitter, especially in those comments you quoted, but honestly didn't see many people on TPR forum being maniacal about it, just excited...as am I

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^ So you missed all the people jumping down my throat because I'm not hopping on a plane right now to sit outside the park and wait for it to open?!?!??!

Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.thumb.jpg.0b94b4acf00eb04cbc2a29911b3c548b.jpg

I think I understand the reason why you don't see it.

Edited by robbalvey
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^ Oh, well you should try READING sometime then. And no. I'm not going to waste my time and answer your stupid question. Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.thumb.jpg.ded44d41cc873bffdc44ed0604b05367.jpg

I'm just gonna post a bunch of facepalms in anticipation for the onslaught of upcoming stupid posts on the subject.

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Is that a enough? No, I don't think so....

 

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That's more like it.

Edited by robbalvey
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With all that's going on here already I thought about posting my thoughts of the ride. (Note I leave all previous comments aside and focus on my thoughts, when people feel like I attack them there problem not mine.)

 

I think Baron is a nice looking coaster and a sure win for the park, Does is deserve the best themed coaster price? No, like Robb said it's basically the station, queue and lift and there are rides that have entire landscapes created for them (think Black Mamba). Is this the best coaster ever? No, I'm looking forward to ride the Baron this summer en especially since it's close at home, but this year I also go to Gardaland and Oblivion is just one of the many coasters I plan to ride this year I look forward to even more then Baron. Yes I'm exited about Baron since it is close by and it looks like good solid ride, I like to talk about the Baron because of that and yes that sometimes that will look like I hype the ride without that being my intentions. It's logical that after the lay-out was revealed I'm not going to say: "looks fun but Oblivion : the Black hole looks way better" I'm here to talk about the Baron not the rest of the Dive's.

 

Robb about your opinion post:

I was very happy to read it because you (in my eye's) are of a higher class of coaster enthusiasts, I'm happy that you took the time to say a few good things about the ride and it's a opinion that I share. It isn't a ride we should shove into people's noses screaming: look at this, but it is a ride that in a way we are allowed to be proud off. Again thanks for taking the time, I enjoyed reading it and I'm happy to hear you look forward to ride it one day.

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It isn't a ride we should shove into people's noses screaming: look at this

Exactly. The ride will actually stand on it's own just fine. It will look beautiful and ride great. No additional over-hyping is needed.

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I think they are 'overhyping' Baron, because for some people it's the first B&M in their region (Dutchies and in some way some Belgians). But it's still pretty funny how people can overreact for something that isn't groundbreaking in any way.

 

I'm from the region and I'm excited about this project. But I'm not shouting this will be "the best ride ever". Sure, the station and preshows will be nice. The ride itself will be enjoyable and will pack some punch. But there are a lot of other good B&M's in Europe I've ridden so far (Shambhala, Katun, Nemesis,...), so I'm curious how I shall rank Baron.

 

Robb, it's just silly that some people react like this. Pretty Ironic isn't it? They are 'mad' because you didn't mentioned anything about this new ride and so they demand that you say something about it. When you do, they are mad because it isn't the reaction they were hoping for...

 

Ps: That epic amount of facepalms is just epic!

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So honestly, hearing the words "roller coaster pre-show" is NOT a feature I would get excited about. And seriously, if it has more than one pre-shows, forget it, I'm out. Not interested in a roller coaster with "many" pre-shows, sorry.

 

I agree with you here, it's almost always more frustrating than anything. Efteling however is selling this new addition as an attraction, an experience - not a coaster. The coaster is like the final part of the attraction (same pattern as DVH). That's why I was stressing out the fact that it's a bit more than just a themed lift and station.

But then again, yet it's only the words Efteling publicly given to people. We'll see what it really has in store when it'll open.

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^ I can only think of *one* "thrill ride" (read: roller coaster or anything else) that has actually done a pre-show correctly, and one that I'll gladly sit through every time: Tower of Terror.

 

Even Disney doesn't get it right all the time, just look at Rock N Roller Coaster. That pre-show, at least the one in Orlando, is just painful. And since then, have you seen Disney try a pre-show on any other coaster? Expedition Everest, Big Grizzly Mountain, Seven Dwarfs Mine Train? Nope. You know why? Because they realize that people just want to get on the ride. Give them a nice queue, sure. Maybe some fun interactive elements in the queue. Fine. But put you in a room and make you stop and watch a "show?" No. That's not what people want. I really hope that's not what Baron has in mind because I can't imagine it being pulled off well. Even the Gringott's pre-shows are painful to sit through more than once. Edit: They were actually painful to sit through the first time also.

Edited by robbalvey
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^ I can only think of *one* "thrill ride" (read: roller coaster or anything else) that has actually done a pre-show correctly, and one that I'll gladly sit through every time: Tower of Terror.

 

Even Disney doesn't get it right all the time, just look at Rock N Roller Coaster. That pre-show, at least the one in Orlando, is just painful. And since then, have you seen Disney try a pre-show on any other coaster? Expedition Everest, Big Grizzly Mountain, Seven Dwarfs Mine Train? Nope. You know why? Because they realize that people just want to get on the ride. Give them a nice queue, sure. Maybe some fun interactive elements in the queue. Fine. But put you in a room and make you stop and watch a "show?" No. That's not what people want. I really hope that's not what Baron has in mind because I can't imagine it being pulled off well. Even the Gringott's pre-shows are painful to sit through more than once.

 

Tower of Terror works because it really hypes up the tension even more and informs us about the background to the ride. Rock n' Rollercoaster just feels like an awkward holding pen; a waste of time. I'll be honest and say I can't name many rides at all that have pre-shows, so we can only hope they're adding pre-shows with good reason. Looking at coasters with great queues (e.g. Wodan) it helps that you're not made to stand still and watch things, so I just pray there's good reason if there are properly enforced pre-shows. It'd have to be excellent to justify having doors sealed for set guest numbers in favour of not breaking queue flow.

 

I'll be curious to know how language will be addressed as well, as Villa Volta's long Dutch spiels prove to be confusing unless I bring a Dutch friend. The recent appointing of a UK tourism envoy for the park implies a desire to further international visits, so not sure if this impacts the ride.

Edited by Heth
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Even the Gringott's pre-shows are painful to sit through more than once. Edit: They were actually painful to sit through the first time also.

 

Yeah that was defiantly painful to sit through even the first time as I had NO IDEA what was going on!

 

If they do a nice video that tells the rides story etc that you can watch while you queue that would be really good but an actual pre show that requires you all to be placed in a room where you are forced to watch it is just off putting for something like this too me.

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To be honest I hate pre-shows in general. Every time me and my girlfriend go in to Villa Volta we are just making funny faces on the voices because of how boring it is after hearing it so many times.

That said I fear we get the pre-shows after seeing how big the outside queue is. I still hope they plan to make it like De Vliegende Hollander (queue with interactive elements) rather then the Pre-Shows, I however fear it will not be that way.

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If they do a nice video that tells the rides story etc that you can watch while you queue that would be really good but an actual pre show that requires you all to be placed in a room where you are forced to watch it is just off putting for something like this too me.

In some cases, the pre-show is what begins the guests' participation in the ride's story.

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^ Right, but why does a ride that once it leaves the lift hill and has zero theming at all other than nice landscaping need a "story?" That's my whole point. There are very, VERY few rides where a "pre-show" actually benefits the ride of the ride. And even of those rides where it benefits, most of the time its just done so poorly that while you're sitting there forced to watch it all you can think is "when is this damn thing going to be over so I can actually RIDE this thing???"

 

I don't mind watching videos while waiting in a queue. That's a voluntary thing that I can choose to watch or not while the line is moving. But I'm' NOT a fan of the "sit in this room and watch something until we tell you it's time to leave." That's why I use the single rider lines on a lot of Universal attractions to avoid them!

Edited by robbalvey
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To be honest I hate pre-shows in general. Every time me and my girlfriend go in to Villa Volta we are just making funny faces on the voices because of how boring it is after hearing it so many times.

That said I fear we get the pre-shows after seeing how big the outside queue is. I still hope they plan to make it like De Vliegende Hollander (queue with interactive elements) rather then the Pre-Shows, I however fear it will not be that way.

 

I like the interactive queues, as well, but not all pre-shows are "bad." For example, the pre-show for Tower of Terror at Tokyo DisneySea is truly amazing. The one for Rock'n'Roller Coaster, er, not so much.

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Then there is the "Pre-show Way" that we always traveled through, in the Space Fantasy attraction in Universal Japan.

 

But - if you had the 'FastPasses' (Thanks again Elissa, Robb) or were a Single Rider, you went through a queue that basically bypassed all the interactive stuff Standby Line did, prior to the boarding station.

 

But they kept openings in actual parts of the queue design so you could 'peek' and see what everybody else was enjoying doing. But not you. Hmmmm.

 

It actually made me get back into a Standby Line, so I could do all that silly stuff again, lol!

And then again, the entire attraction was indoors, which I think does help eliminate seeing the

coaster tracks in a visual way, depending how they are themed indoors, etc. With lighting.

 

There are exceptions. But with actual coasters involved, it's sometimes tough to figure out.

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^ Right, but why does a ride that once it leaves the lift hill and has zero theming at all other than nice landscaping need a "story?"

It would appear as though the entire story leads up to and reaches its climax at the drop into the treacherous mineshaft, with an "off-the-rails" mine carting experience through the local landscape taking place directly afterward (the Immelmann, Zero-G, spiral, etc). The theming throughout the coaster section would probably be with the ride vehicles - "the carts" - where a fake mine cart track wouldn't really be necessary considering that the "carts" would be off the rails. I'm not completely familiar with the attraction though.

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The only coaster with a pre-show I found amusing through multiple re-rides was Furius Baco.

 

Somehow, many of the Mad Houses have really good pre-shows. Even in mainland Europe when I couldn't fully understand what was going due to language on I liked the pre-shows.

Edited by larrygator
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Again, I think Baron looks like a fun ride with some fantastic creative elements and I'll be excited to eventually ride it. But trying to tell me over and over again why I should be liking it MORE is actually doing the opposite.

Oh I absolutely agree on that, I don't force you to like this coaster more than others. Every coaster has its charm. I think we can agree on that one.

 

ALL of those rides are reachable to your average European as well. So while I get what you're saying, I don't buy it for second.

Well here you will run into a cultural difference. If I pull this discussion to my own country, 2 hr drive is already too far for a lot of people, I know for American people it is really peanuts. Transportation here is most cases an big issue. Planes are expensive, a car is the most convenient way, however you can pass your drivers license exam when you're 18 years or older (in the States it is in most cases 16, depends on the state). To get the license is not cheap. Then get a car is the next issue. And finally the fuel, which is 1.6 euro a liter which is approx. 7 US dollar a gallon. Driving here is an expensive "hobby" especially for younger people. Oh and I didn't mention the different traffic rules, and different driving behaviors of the countries which you have to adapt to. Different languages can still be an issue, not every country is adopting English very well. And this could be also an extra drawback. Going by public transportation is in most cases not an option. You will pay a lot of money to go fast or you're stuck at a long of traveling time. So to get to these parks takes extra hurdles. That is a real big difference compared to the US.

 

I have two words for you: Black Mamba

I'm really glad you mentioned this one! Silver star was my first B&M which I rode. It was a fine experience, so when I heard they build Black Mamba I was looking forward to ride this coaster and no not like OMG OMG, just looking forward. When I had the change to ride it I found the coaster very intensive even after two or three times, I didn't experienced that before. In 2009 I went to the States for the first time and experienced a whole set of new coasters, which were more intensive than the current ones in Europe. After coming back I rode again Black Mamba and yeah my opinion changed, it was less intensive than before and more enjoyable. The coaster didn't change, I did. Same applies for Troy in Toverland btw. I came to the conclusion that both Black Mamba, Troy, Katun more leaning towards the American standard type of designs. So for you probably average type of coaster. But for me it was a step further than normal before I went to the States. So and there it fits in with your story. And thats why you probably find Oziris quite forceless, its the opposite of my story.

 

In my opinion the same applies to the Baron, I think for a lot of young people (15-19) they didn't experience a coaster like this, they are not able to visit parks if they are not taken to it. So yeah chances could be that they get over-excited, and maybe in your eyes overhyping it, especially when the opening date gets closer. For them it is the first dive machine experience. As long as they are having fun, watching the construction and looking forward to ride the coaster and talk about it: it's fine nobody got hurt. Different references, different coaster culture, as I see it.

 

Here is my opinion about the coaster: I think it will be a fine coaster which will fit perfectly into the Efteling. My concerns regarding the ride are at the track length the capacity of the ride, and language. The drop itself I'm not really impressed by, done already the tilt coaster and Sheikra, however it will be fun. The real fun part for me is to get people aboard who fear this coaster, and get them over this fear and to let them see this coaster is no big deal. In the end it is still a game between the coaster manufacturer and the guest. Having a B&M in Efteling, yeah that is a good move and a lot of fans (and also internal people) had for a long period of time this secret wish. Using a mine / steampunk theme for this type of coaster, I think is natural choice. It's nice to have a backstory, however for me it is not mandatory. I'm very curious how the pre shows will be and if they will influence the capacity of the ride. The park's goal is to have 5 million visitors a year by 2020, so I think capacity is a really important factor. I'm still excited, and when I have the chance to ride it, I will and compare it to other rides and place it somewhere in the list.

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ALL of those rides are reachable to your average European as well. So while I get what you're saying, I don't buy it for second.

Well here you will run into a cultural difference. If I pull this discussion to my own country, 2 hr drive is already too far for a lot of people, I know for American people it is really peanuts. Transportation here is most cases an big issue.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy this. I lived in Europe for a while and everyone I knew was always traveling somewhere on holiday. Either around their own country, out to places like Ibiza, Barcelona, French Alps, etc, etc. Europeans that I knew traveled WAY more than Americans. Hell, most Americans don't even have passports, and I'd say a vast majority of them have never even left their own state.

 

You may not be aware of how much time I've spent in Europe, but it's a lot and at no point did I ever encounter this kind of "stay at home, don't go anywhere on holiday" mentality you're describing. I don't believe for a SECOND anything you're saying.

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Rob, I did not see any of those reactions on your twitter account. (not using twitter that much) It's understandable that the most of these reactions are a bit overdone. When a coaster enthusiast "screams" on twitter that it will be the best coaster out there, a face palm would be more then legit.

But, it was not what I was mention in my formal reaction. It was more something to make clear that your final verdict was a bit .... uhm rude. It's perhaps the way we read it, but saying to be satisfied with a ride that could be a real nice one? (for what we are used to ride within our boundaries) Common Rob, that's something I did not expected in a reaction.

I think I know why they really would love to hear your reaction. One, it's because you've ridden more coasters then the most of us. And two, there isn't that much going on of this ride on your main page or social media. (what is normal regarding your thinking about the ride)

 

When it comes to the reaction of travelling; remember that 100 miles for the most European feels like a 500 miles in the states. The amount of roads, distance between city's and country's makes the most European feels like they are travelling the world when travelling from Germany to Italy. I Don't say that we do not like to travel, it's more that we don't like to travel large distances and then especially to themeparks. That's one of the mayor reasons parks like Disney just can't become in what they would like to be.

And I really think that's the whole problem... The most coaster enthusiast start when they are young, they don't have a car (what Marwin mentioned), they don't have a large amount of cash (They don't get credit cards thank god) and so on. That's perhaps where these reactions come from. The older enthusiasts won't have that problem.

 

I'm sure you did explore some good European expectations when travelled around in Europe. But I hope you can understand that not every citizen in every country thinks and feels the same. There is for an example a huge different between French people and German People in their way of thinking. (not to open any discussion about this)

It's a good thing this comes up, and even better you're open for a discussion about this. Some others would stop this a few pages ago. I really respect that.

 

For the ride itself, I do like the theming around it. It's something that already has some good amount of details on it. The ride will not be that extreme that's for sure. But like mentioned before, I personal really like these shorter and compact rides more then the open and larger rides. But that's me. And it's the theming that counts the most for me.

About the track, we still expect details on the supports of it. Till today they have build everything according to the concept drawing. So if this will be true there should me more to come on and around the ride itself. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

Anton (awaiting my next face palm) van den Akker.

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