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Arrow Mega Loopers - Height Restrictions and the future


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So I have some questions about Arrow Mega-Loopers.

 

Height restrictions - I've noticed that you have to be 54" tall to ride the Arrow mega- loopers (which I will classify as the three 7-inversion coasters, of which only one exists today). I've also noticed that you only have to be 48" tall to ride practially every other Arrow looper in existence, including the Vortex at Kings Island, which is rather similar to the mega-loopers in some ways.

 

Before you say that the parks are under different management, in my experience, Six Flags is less strict about height restrictions than Cedar Fair - you only have to be 42" tall to ride the Shockwave at SFOT, and also, research suggests that the same was true for Greezed' Lightnin' - both the flywheel one at Astroworld and the drop-weight launch at Kentucky Kingdom. However, the Knott's Berry Farm Montezooma's Revenge has a restriction of 48", and at Cedar Point, rather tame rides that would have lower restrictions at other parks (CCMR, Blue Streak) have 48" height restrictions. So why do the SF mega-loopers have 54" restrictions - is it intensity or the restraints, or something else?

 

Also, out of curiosity, I want to know if Viper at SFMM is at any imminent risk of demolition, as I want to make sure that I could ride it if I go to SFMM in the near future (next few years).

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I would think this is an insurance issue. All insurance varies drastically from one region to the next, that's why there is inconsistencies between parks and chains.

 

Insurers have a big say in what parks must do when it comes to height restrictions and safety devices. Granted, it is the park that has a final say, but if an insurer says "add 2 inches to the height restriction to this ride and we'll drop your insurance rate by 20%", you best believe the park is going to do it, regardless what the manufacturer says the minimum height is.

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I would think this is an insurance issue. All insurance varies drastically from one region to the next, that's why there is inconsistencies between parks and chains.

 

Insurers have a big say in what parks must do when it comes to height restrictions and safety devices. Granted, it is the park that has a final say, but if an insurer says "add 2 inches to the height restriction to this ride and we'll drop your insurance rate by 20%", you best believe the park is going to do it, regardless what the manufacturer says the minimum height is.

 

What IS the minimum restriction for an arrow 7-looper?

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At West Coast Bash 2012 a few months ago, SFMM park management mentioned how they are able to keep Viper running reliably at a low maintenance cost, and they see it being at the park for many years to come.

 

I recall reading about this- and I like Arrow, so I was glad. The thing I didn't understand was how Viper's future is secure based on reliability and low maintenance costs while Shockwave and Great American Scream Machine where scrapped partly due to reliability and low maintenance costs.

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You only have to be 42" to ride Demon at Great America, Gurnee. Even with the killer 1st drop (that has been neutered on the California version).

 

I think Shockwave and GASM were put to sleep because of their low ridership and maintenance bills. Remember, all 3 Arrow mega/7 loopers had to have extra bracing added to the 3 vertical loops just a couple years after they opened. I've heard that Shockwave maintenance crews were always attending to cracks in track/structure and even foundations. An interesting thing about Shockwave was that is had one of the highest (if not THEE highest) capacity in the park but the lowest ridership.

 

The future of (some) old Arrow coasters will hopefully look something like a combination or another form of this (and I've heard a few people mention that Gravity Group (yes the woodies company) is capable of building them new lap bar trains; I think S&S El Loco/Steel Hawg/Screamin' Swing lap bars would work, too):

Edited by GayCoasterGuy
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Do you really think we'll see any Arrow loopers use lapbar-only restraìnts?

 

I'll go 50/50 on that one. I figure we're at the point where the parks are nearly saturated with coasters, and spiffing up old stuff may be a good option. I guess they already have done that with Texas Giant, started it on Georgia Cyclone, and rumor is Rattler at Fiesta Texas is next

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You only have to be 42" to ride Demon at Great America, Gurnee. Even with the killer 1st drop (that has been neutered on the California version).

 

I think Shockwave and GASM were put to sleep because of their low ridership and maintenance bills. Remember, all 3 Arrow mega/7 loopers had to have extra bracing added to the 3 vertical loops just a couple years after they opened. I've heard that Shockwave maintenance crews were always attending to cracks in track/structure and even foundations. An interesting thing about Shockwave was that is had one of the highest (if not THEE highest) capacity in the park but the lowest ridership.

 

The future of (some) old Arrow coasters will hopefully look something like a combination or another form of this (and I've heard a few people mention that Gravity Group (yes the woodies company) is capable of building them new lap bar trains; I think S&S El Loco/Steel Hawg/Screamin' Swing lap bars would work, too):

 

Killer first drop? Do you have pictures of the difference between the SF Great America and the California version? And how was it "neutered"? Unfortunately, I'll only be going to the California version - I go to CF parks, so I'd be riding that before the SF version - but I have not been to either of the CF parks in California - yet.

 

I know Corkscrew at Cedar Point has some good airtime before the loop - but if you sit in the back, the ride goes to hell after the loop.

 

Back to the original question - did Arrow specify any minimum height restriction for their larger (7-loop) coasters?

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Killer first drop? Do you have pictures of the difference between the SF Great America and the California version? And how was it "neutered"?

 

Yes, but it will take me a while to get the pictures up. I'm sure a coaster geek somewhere could beat me to the punch. Both Demon coasters had a good *snap* going over, right before the pull-out. They were steepened from 45 degrees as the Turn of the Century to 55 degrees as the Demon. (By steepened, I don't mean they were re-profiled like a woodie, all new track was put in; I know I have to be specific around here...) In the 90s California's Great America (then owned by Paramount?) decided the drop was too much and had new track put in - very similar to how it was for Turn of the Century.

 

(On a related note - the California Demon also lost it's loop "rocks" and all it's 2nd tunnel lights; Demon Gurnee still has all it's rocks and the only the lights on the top of the 2nd tunnel have been removed (kids used to brake them by throwing rocks straight up when the train rode through the tunnel). Also, the California Demon runs with old Arrow trains and is "cool enough" to have kept it's old 3D Demon logo on the front of each train.. Demon Gurnee had a lame logo for years, but now has the original Demon logo (slightly updated) in sticker form on each train front.)

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Got it. Looks like someone has already done the dirty work, so I don't need to do it now:

http://whispers.smugmug.com/Travel/Six-Flags-and-Paramount-A/799228_kq5mn/2#!i=35522785&k=FH2HH

There are also pictures out there of the California Demon's drop before it was neutered.... it would be nice to have before/after/before pics of all (including TOC) but that'll have to wait until later.

 

California Demon's neutered drop:

 

 

 

Illinois Demon's killer drop:

 

 

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OK. I have one more question besides the Arrow manufacturer height restriction (does anybody know that?)

 

What is the roughest Arrow looper (not just 7-inversion - any model) ever - in existence and defunct?

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You're going to get a wide range of answers. There won't be a right or wrong answer- there isn't one ride that everyone will agree on. It would be just as well to write out the names of every Arrow looper on a dartboard and throw darts at it. Wherever it lands, that's the answer...

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At West Coast Bash 2012 a few months ago, SFMM park management mentioned how they are able to keep Viper running reliably at a low maintenance cost, and they see it being at the park for many years to come.

 

I recall reading about this- and I like Arrow, so I was glad. The thing I didn't understand was how Viper's future is secure based on reliability and low maintenance costs while Shockwave and Great American Scream Machine where scrapped partly due to reliability and low maintenance costs.

 

I think you answered your own question: GASM and Shockwave were eaten by Viper to survive. 3 coasters go in, only 1 comes out.

 

In all seriousness though, as more and more of these are being taken down, warehouse parts, even those currently on the ride, especially in a company as large as Six Flags or Cedar Fair could be shipped around to enable those still standing to continue to work. Furthermore, I do not think that you'll see what happened to the Suspended coaster happen to the normal sit down ones. There are a metric shit-ton of arrow loopers in the world, 7 inversion or no, and thus there are still a great demand to have these parts manufactured. Couple that with them being ultimately "less" complex than those of the suspended, and I think we'll see them remain in parks for a while longer, so long as demand for them still exists.

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I recall reading about this- and I like Arrow, so I was glad. The thing I didn't understand was how Viper's future is secure based on reliability and low maintenance costs while Shockwave and Great American Scream Machine where scrapped partly due to reliability and low maintenance costs.

 

Shockwave was the first (1988) and the fastest/roughest and had the harshest transitions. GASM was the second (1989) and had a slightly slower/less rough layout and somewhat smoother transitions (especially the wicked curve into the block break). Viper was the third and last (1990). Although still quite fast and a bit rough, much of what was wrong with the first 2 was ironed out with Viper. The bottom of Viper's first drop was also completely re-done after a few years (if someone could dig for comparison photos, that would be nice). The drop originally had a lateral *snapping* motion near the bottom.

 

Basically, Viper - the "Cinderella" of the three - was built with a reduced number of high stress points compared to the first 2 "Evil step sisters." This translates to lower maintenance on structure, track and trains especially. But I do have a feeling it will be torn down long before Revolution and Colossus. But those are movie stars/more historic... and I've heard rumors that both of those coasters will soon "return to glory." Let's hope

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It's good to know that those of us that remember the old Turn Of The Century being a more intense ride weren't just imagining it. I remember the pre-loops version of what's now The Demon having some scary airtime on the first drop and both of the hills. I'd sometimes wonder if it really was a more intense ride, or if it just felt that way since I was a kid back then.

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So Viper is the smoothest? OK... so how rough is it? Is it any better than a normal Arrow looper (Vortex, Dragon Fire @ Canada's Wonderland, Carolina Cyclone, Corkscrew (any coaster named Corkscrew, lol) or is Viper bumpier?

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Wow, I never knew that about the Demon. CGA's was my first "big" coaster when I was little. I honestly don't remember feeling a difference when I rode SFGAm's a few years back, but those photos do show it's different.

 

So Viper is the smoothest? OK... so how rough is it? Is it any better than a normal Arrow looper (Vortex, Dragon Fire @ Canada's Wonderland, Carolina Cyclone, Corkscrew (any coaster named Corkscrew, lol) or is Viper bumpier?

 

Of the Arrow Loopers I've been on I'd rank the smoothness as follows:

 

*From smoothest to roughest*

Corkscrew (CP)

Loch Ness Monster (BGW)

Canyon Blaster (Adventuredome)

Demon (CGA)

Viper (SFMM)

Demon (SFGAm)

Anaconda (KD)

Vortex (KI)

 

Obviously that isn't the biggest of selections but it gives you an idea based on what I've experienced. I'd say Viper is in the mid range. If it wasn't for the batwing/butterfly loop/boomerang(whatever Arrow calls it), it wouldn't be so bad.

 

Also, Are we not considering Vortex a Mega Looper? I mean, yes it's 6 inversions and not 7 and has a bit more unique of a layout that the other 3, but I've always thrown it in that same category.

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^I've heard Vortex as being one of the better Arrow loopers. My experiences on it vary. The first time I rode it, it wasn't that bad - we thought it was better than Corkscrew at CP - but the next time, it was not a good ride. I sometimes ride it - the first turn of Vortex can bang your head when you only expect it on the inversions. I rode it in the front once. I rode it in the 2nd-to-back row (1st row, back car), and I swore the back car in the 1st row was better than the front. I rode the CP Corkscrew in front and it was OK, but the back was hellish - my friend talked me into riding it in the back for the airtime, but we both regretted it - Arrow loopers (Vortex and Corkscrew, in my experience) can have some pretty decent airtime.

 

Vortex isn't quite as big as the mega-loopers, and it has a totally different layout. The mega-loopers are in a league of their own due to height and inversions. Vortex is eerily similar to the former Orient Express at Worlds of Fun, and I'd consider them related just as much as Vortex is to the mega-loopers - but Orient Express is pretty much only related to the mega-loopers through Vortex, as Orient Express is shorter and the layout is quite different from Vortex. Here is how I'd classify the complete-circuit Arrow Loopers, along with examples

 

Factory design Corkscrew - Corkscrew at Michigan's Adventure

 

Factory design Loop and Corkscrew - Space Salamander at Expoland

 

Custom small 3-inversion - Corkscrew at CP and Valleyfair

 

Custom small 4-inversion - Dragon Fire at Canad'as Wonderland

 

5-inversion - Viper at Darien Lake

 

Vortex-Styled - Orient Express, Vortex

 

Mega-Looper - Shockwave at SFGAM, Viper at SFMM, GASM at SFGA

 

Then you have the "others". While most of the "others" are not totally messed up or strange, here are just a few of what I think of as unusual-

 

Drachen Fire at BGW

Steel Phantom (before conversion) at Kennywood

Dragon at Ocean Park

Roller Coaster at Al-Sha'ab Leisure Park (it resembles the Loop and Corkscrew, but with only one corkscrew)

Tenesee Tornado

 

And that is an incomplete categorizations of some Arrow coasters

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