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Let's be honest here... Big Bad Wolf wasn't THAT amazing...


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All I'm saying is there wasn't a massive outcry regarding it because there weren't massive numbers of people who rode it. Nothing to do with its quality, I know all about it shooting up to #2 after everyone visited it, but you're not going to get much of a response over a coaster that most people have only seen a video of. I'm sure the loss of Eagle's Fortress was a much greater loss to its park *and* to the community at large (though it sounds like the locals didn't feel it was a huge loss, but I'm sure I would've been upset).

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So don't cry me a river when a "not-even-top-100-coaster" gets the axe. Eagle's Fortress was at least ranked #2 in the world, and no one really seemed to notice.

Regarding Eagle's Fortress, I'm not denying that it's the best coaster on the planet, but no one really seemed to notice probably because virtually no one had actually ridden it. I would estimate maybe under 0.1% of enthusiasts have ridden it, versus a fairly large percent for BBW (30%+?). Plus, even fewer people would actually notice it's absence, given their likelihood of revisits.

 

I was going to say something about this. I think Mitch said that six people put it in their top 3, and there was not a lot of data from the poll. However, the people who voted Eagle's Fortress (I'm assuming some of these people have posted in the thread) are industry-aware enough to justify the choice.

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All I'm saying is there wasn't a massive outcry regarding it because there weren't massive numbers of people who rode it.

I guess I was just trying to say that what you wrote right there, IMO, is a bigger crime that BBW going away. I'm very honest when it comes to quality of rides and I would NEVER be one of those "ha, ha! I'm going to say it's awesome because you'll never find out!" kind of people. In fact, Eagle's Fortress was so awesome, that's one of the main reasons why we did a repeat trip to S. Korea the next year. I wanted more people to experience it for themselves, and also to give it another chance to see if it really was as good as we had remembered!

 

It bums me out more coaster geeks didn't get a chance to ride it.

 

Yes, it's sad when a coaster that has 25 years worth of memories closes, but to me it's even sadder that a true "top 5" world-class ride closes...and no one really notices.

 

--Robb

Edited by robbalvey
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In the 90s I really wasn't impressed with the 2nd lift being in the whole mix. I think it killed the vibe. Now riding the best suspended coaster in the world and the US' best in the same month: that really enhanced BBW. In April 2007 I was in Korea. Early in the month I got Eagle Fortress. Then at the end of the month I was at Busch Gardens. That made Big Bad Wolf seem like it was on crack getting on both coasters within days of each other.

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Big Bad Wolf was an amazing suspended coaster. I never got the chance to ride Eagle's Fortress, but I know for a fact that Flight Deck and Iron Dragon aren't anywhere close to the quality of BBW. I heard it might be because Schwarzkopf laid the foundations for it, and Arrow didn't do much track design. I haven't been on many suspended coasters, but of the ones I've ridden, BBW was easily the best, and the village scenery and woods only improved the ride.

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I don't think it was an out of control amazing ride,but it was still a very fun coaster to ride with the swinging cars through the village and the drop into the Rhine River.Also there aren't too many suspended coasters left,so removing it moves this style of coaster closer to being extinct.This coaster also at least to me somewhat personified Busch Gardens Williamsburg,there's obviously better coasters at the park but this one had a special something,I'm sad it's gone but at least I rode it and maybe they'll put in something just as special for the next 30 years.

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Big Bad Wolf was an amazing suspended coaster. I never got the chance to ride Eagle's Fortress, but I know for a fact that Flight Deck and Iron Dragon aren't anywhere close to the quality of BBW. I heard it might be because Schwarzkopf laid the foundations for it, and Arrow didn't do much track design. I haven't been on many suspended coasters, but of the ones I've ridden, BBW was easily the best, and the village scenery and woods only improved the ride.

 

I most definitely disagree on that Big Bad Wolf was the best suspended coaster. People only liked it because of the theming. It WAS better than Iron Dragon. I was NOT better than Flight Deck or Vortex. I rode Vortex at Canada's Wonderland in 2007. Vortex was fast and smooth. Big bad wolf was fast for about 20 seconds at the very end. I mean both Vortex and Flight Deck at pretty short rides but at least they had punch all the way through. Obviously Eagle Fortress owned every suspended when it was in operation. What do you guys think about Ninja? I never have ridden it?

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Ninja is a pretty good ride, presumably better than Draggin' Iron or X-L-R-8 are/were. Regardless, it's more of a family coaster, whereas Vortex (and presumably Flight Deck) are much more intense experiences.

 

Where Big Bad Wolf and Eagle's Fortress stand, I have no idea.

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Where Big Bad Wolf and Eagle's Fortress stand, I have no idea.

I'll tell you where they stand, one is not in the top 100 steel coasters for about 10 years and one was voted #2 in the world.

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I was talking from a personal standpoint, I didn't want to sound like I knew either ride too well (as I've never been on one that was all that similar to either...or either ride, for that matter) but believe me when I say that I agree with your standpoint from what I have seen.

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Big Bad Wolf was an amazing suspended coaster. I never got the chance to ride Eagle's Fortress, but I know for a fact that Flight Deck and Iron Dragon aren't anywhere close to the quality of BBW. I heard it might be because Schwarzkopf laid the foundations for it, and Arrow didn't do much track design. I haven't been on many suspended coasters, but of the ones I've ridden, BBW was easily the best, and the village scenery and woods only improved the ride.

 

I most definitely disagree on that Big Bad Wolf was the best suspended coaster. People only liked it because of the theming. It WAS better than Iron Dragon. I was NOT better than Flight Deck or Vortex. I rode Vortex at Canada's Wonderland in 2007. Vortex was fast and smooth. Big bad wolf was fast for about 20 seconds at the very end. I mean both Vortex and Flight Deck at pretty short rides but at least they had punch all the way through. Obviously Eagle Fortress owned every suspended when it was in operation. What do you guys think about Ninja? I never have ridden it?

 

^Theming wasn't the only part of BBW I liked personally. I liked how you could CLEARLY feel the swinging motion that you are supposed to feel on a suspended coaster. With Flight Deck and Vortex I feel like its more of a sensation that a non-suspended coaster could give on a banked turn. The rides, to me, don't feel like the sharply turn out, but rather kind of list out semi gradually. Sure they give a quick moving ride, but I just don't feel the sensation on it that made BBW and EF what they were. BBW always hung out around number 100, and yes number 90 in its final year, which both made it the 2nd best suspended coaster in the world, and best readily available to most who read this site. Not too bad after 25 years when you see how many coasters drop so fast from the top 100. Vortex ranks in the mid 100s. Most others rank 80 to 100 spots below BBW, including Ninja, Vampire and Flight Deck.

 

And I personally like Ninja more than Vortex and Flight Deck as well, as you actually feel some swinging on it too, even if it isn't as sharp as Wolf was.. Note...I do not count the swinging into the brake runs on Vortex and Flight Deck as amazing swinging. It finally really happens as you are coming into the brakes so I feel more stopping than swinging.

 

Personal opinion is personal opinion though.

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BBW was good for one thing: a nice picture of the drop over the river. Other than that, it was just like all the other suspended coasters (aside from how boring Iron Dragon is and how amazing Eagles Fortress was): not boring, but not anything special either.

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Where Big Bad Wolf and Eagle's Fortress stand, I have no idea.

I'll tell you where they stand, one is not in the top 100 steel coasters for about 10 years and one was voted #2 in the world.

I would've gone with the scrapyard as my answer, but Robb's correct too.

 

 

On a side note, I can't confirm anything, but I've heard that old footers, supports, and track will start reappearing the more we discuss BBW.

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I may not have been on it, but after a few BBW POV videos, I conclude that Eagle's Fortress, Vortex and maybe... MAYBE Iron Dragon are better, experience-wise. The only interesting feature on BBW was the theming.

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^You're totally living up to the Canadian stereotype right now!!!

 

There is no way in hell Iron Dragon is anywhere NEAR Big Bad Wolf!!!! And I am NOT a BBW Fanboy at all.

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I may not have been on it, but after a few BBW POV videos,......

 

I'll try and add a little credibility here.

 

The following, I believe, is a complete list of the Arrow suspendeds:

 

The Bat - King's Island

Big Bad Wolf - BGE

* Dream Catcher - Bobbejaanland, I thought this was built by Arrow as Air Race, then modified by Vekoma to become Dream Catcher. (Someone can probably correct me on this, but for now, I'll include it.)

EF - Everland

Flight Deck - King's Island

Hayabusa - Tokyo Summerland

Iron Dragon - Cedar Point

Ninja - SFMM

Vampire - Chessington's World of Adventure

Vortex - Canada's Wonderland

XLR-8 - Astroworld

 

 

 

Having ridden all but 2 of them (Bat and Hayabusa), here's how I would rate them on a school (A-F) scale, and why.

 

The Bat - Didn't ride, as it was closed the one day I was there. Heard ONLY opposite opinions about it, either really good or really bad. No opinion.

 

Big Bad Wolf C+ Nice ride, nice pacing, but the second lift just ruined the fun factor, and brakes on the drop, not good.

 

*Dream Catcher D+ It's a credit. Didn't ride it as "Air Race", but it just took it's sweet time meandering around the course. The open Vekoma trains didn't help.

 

Eagle's Fortress A++ Didn't look like much. Getting off the lift and starting so slowly, it felt like it never stopped accelerating - all the way to the final brakes!! Joey said it best that first ERT, "There's NO WAY that this thing isn't tearing itself apart!! Rides are NOT supposed to do this!! No wonder they're taking it out!" (A side note for those that may not know - I believe that Robb, Elissa or someone else can confirm this - It *WAS* scheduled to be removed after the 2007 season, with T-Express opening in 2008. BUT, after its' ranking in Mitch's poll in 2007, the park decided not to remove it just yet. Unfortunately, that was a short-lived reprieve. )

 

Flight Deck B Fun ride, beginning to end. Just when it gets interesting, it's over. Too short.

 

Hayabusa Didn't ride. No opinion.

 

Iron Dragon C- They don't call it "Draggin Iron" for no reason! Though I do like how it weaves around the trees.

 

Ninja B- I like the short lift at the beginning, nice swinging action, but the final brakes and lift hill at the end just KILL the experience for me.

 

Vampire (Before Vekoma) C+ Nice station. First half is quite dull, especially getting to the 2nd lift. Nice ending back into the station. (After Vekoma) D The lighter trains absolutely killed the boring first half. It also made the ending quite forgettable.

 

Vortex B- Takes a bit to get up to speed, and just holds it. Again, too short, but a nice layout around the mountain and over the water.

 

XLR-8 D Just slow and boring, both forward and backwards. Reminded me kid rolling a marble back and forth (and back and forth) on one of those wooden labyrinth games, always waiting for something exciting to happen, and it didn't.

 

 

My two cents - which is usually worthless anyway.

 

 

JJ

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My two cents - which is usually worthless anyway.

JJ

 

You're so old that your two cents was enough to mail a letter when you first starting working for the Post Office!

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I may not have been on it, but after a few BBW POV videos,......

 

I'll try and add a little credibility here.

 

* Dream Catcher - Bobbejaanland, I thought this was built by Arrow as Air Race, then modified by Vekoma to become Dream Catcher. (Someone can probably correct me on this, but for now, I'll include it.)

JJ

 

Actually, Arrow didn't supply Bobbejaanland's ride. That is one of Vekoma's three 'Swinging Turns' installations, which "borrowed" heavily from Arrow's engineering.

 

-Scotty

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Actually, Arrow didn't supply Bobbejaanland's ride. That is one of Vekoma's three 'Swinging Turns' installations, which "borrowed" heavily from Arrow's engineering.

 

-Scotty

 

Thanks for the correction! For some reason, I remembered riding DC with Erik (Vekoma engineer) and remember talking to him about Vampire and the changes they made to it, and somehow I associated the two. I guess it was just the open Vekoma cars.

 

Thanks again!

 

JJ

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^ Vekoma did make the changes to Vampire and Air Race. Vampire was an Arrow, Air Race was a Vekoma. I know You've been on at least one of the other Vekoma installations, Grampus Jet at Mistui Greenland.

Edited by robbalvey
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I have only seen POVs of BBW and I must say I was never very impressed, I know riding is very different than watching a POV but the layout never looked very exciting to me it just looked like left turn right turn left turn right turn

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