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Let's be honest here... Big Bad Wolf wasn't THAT amazing...


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All I'm saying is there wasn't a massive outcry regarding it because there weren't massive numbers of people who rode it.

I guess I was just trying to say that what you wrote right there, IMO, is a bigger crime that BBW going away. I'm very honest when it comes to quality of rides and I would NEVER be one of those "ha, ha! I'm going to say it's awesome because you'll never find out!" kind of people. In fact, Eagle's Fortress was so awesome, that's one of the main reasons why we did a repeat trip to S. Korea the next year. I wanted more people to experience it for themselves, and also to give it another chance to see if it really was as good as we had remembered!

 

It bums me out more coaster geeks didn't get a chance to ride it.

 

Yes, it's sad when a coaster that has 25 years worth of memories closes, but to me it's even sadder that a true "top 5" world-class ride closes...and no one really notices.

 

--Robb

Edited by robbalvey
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In the 90s I really wasn't impressed with the 2nd lift being in the whole mix. I think it killed the vibe. Now riding the best suspended coaster in the world and the US' best in the same month: that really enhanced BBW. In April 2007 I was in Korea. Early in the month I got Eagle Fortress. Then at the end of the month I was at Busch Gardens. That made Big Bad Wolf seem like it was on crack getting on both coasters within days of each other.

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Big Bad Wolf was an amazing suspended coaster. I never got the chance to ride Eagle's Fortress, but I know for a fact that Flight Deck and Iron Dragon aren't anywhere close to the quality of BBW. I heard it might be because Schwarzkopf laid the foundations for it, and Arrow didn't do much track design. I haven't been on many suspended coasters, but of the ones I've ridden, BBW was easily the best, and the village scenery and woods only improved the ride.

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I don't think it was an out of control amazing ride,but it was still a very fun coaster to ride with the swinging cars through the village and the drop into the Rhine River.Also there aren't too many suspended coasters left,so removing it moves this style of coaster closer to being extinct.This coaster also at least to me somewhat personified Busch Gardens Williamsburg,there's obviously better coasters at the park but this one had a special something,I'm sad it's gone but at least I rode it and maybe they'll put in something just as special for the next 30 years.

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Big Bad Wolf was an amazing suspended coaster. I never got the chance to ride Eagle's Fortress, but I know for a fact that Flight Deck and Iron Dragon aren't anywhere close to the quality of BBW. I heard it might be because Schwarzkopf laid the foundations for it, and Arrow didn't do much track design. I haven't been on many suspended coasters, but of the ones I've ridden, BBW was easily the best, and the village scenery and woods only improved the ride.

 

I most definitely disagree on that Big Bad Wolf was the best suspended coaster. People only liked it because of the theming. It WAS better than Iron Dragon. I was NOT better than Flight Deck or Vortex. I rode Vortex at Canada's Wonderland in 2007. Vortex was fast and smooth. Big bad wolf was fast for about 20 seconds at the very end. I mean both Vortex and Flight Deck at pretty short rides but at least they had punch all the way through. Obviously Eagle Fortress owned every suspended when it was in operation. What do you guys think about Ninja? I never have ridden it?

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Big Bad Wolf was an amazing suspended coaster. I never got the chance to ride Eagle's Fortress, but I know for a fact that Flight Deck and Iron Dragon aren't anywhere close to the quality of BBW. I heard it might be because Schwarzkopf laid the foundations for it, and Arrow didn't do much track design. I haven't been on many suspended coasters, but of the ones I've ridden, BBW was easily the best, and the village scenery and woods only improved the ride.

 

I most definitely disagree on that Big Bad Wolf was the best suspended coaster. People only liked it because of the theming. It WAS better than Iron Dragon. I was NOT better than Flight Deck or Vortex. I rode Vortex at Canada's Wonderland in 2007. Vortex was fast and smooth. Big bad wolf was fast for about 20 seconds at the very end. I mean both Vortex and Flight Deck at pretty short rides but at least they had punch all the way through. Obviously Eagle Fortress owned every suspended when it was in operation. What do you guys think about Ninja? I never have ridden it?

 

^Theming wasn't the only part of BBW I liked personally. I liked how you could CLEARLY feel the swinging motion that you are supposed to feel on a suspended coaster. With Flight Deck and Vortex I feel like its more of a sensation that a non-suspended coaster could give on a banked turn. The rides, to me, don't feel like the sharply turn out, but rather kind of list out semi gradually. Sure they give a quick moving ride, but I just don't feel the sensation on it that made BBW and EF what they were. BBW always hung out around number 100, and yes number 90 in its final year, which both made it the 2nd best suspended coaster in the world, and best readily available to most who read this site. Not too bad after 25 years when you see how many coasters drop so fast from the top 100. Vortex ranks in the mid 100s. Most others rank 80 to 100 spots below BBW, including Ninja, Vampire and Flight Deck.

 

And I personally like Ninja more than Vortex and Flight Deck as well, as you actually feel some swinging on it too, even if it isn't as sharp as Wolf was.. Note...I do not count the swinging into the brake runs on Vortex and Flight Deck as amazing swinging. It finally really happens as you are coming into the brakes so I feel more stopping than swinging.

 

Personal opinion is personal opinion though.

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BBW was good for one thing: a nice picture of the drop over the river. Other than that, it was just like all the other suspended coasters (aside from how boring Iron Dragon is and how amazing Eagles Fortress was): not boring, but not anything special either.

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Where Big Bad Wolf and Eagle's Fortress stand, I have no idea.

I'll tell you where they stand, one is not in the top 100 steel coasters for about 10 years and one was voted #2 in the world.

I would've gone with the scrapyard as my answer, but Robb's correct too.

 

 

On a side note, I can't confirm anything, but I've heard that old footers, supports, and track will start reappearing the more we discuss BBW.

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I may not have been on it, but after a few BBW POV videos,......

 

I'll try and add a little credibility here.

 

The following, I believe, is a complete list of the Arrow suspendeds:

 

The Bat - King's Island

Big Bad Wolf - BGE

* Dream Catcher - Bobbejaanland, I thought this was built by Arrow as Air Race, then modified by Vekoma to become Dream Catcher. (Someone can probably correct me on this, but for now, I'll include it.)

EF - Everland

Flight Deck - King's Island

Hayabusa - Tokyo Summerland

Iron Dragon - Cedar Point

Ninja - SFMM

Vampire - Chessington's World of Adventure

Vortex - Canada's Wonderland

XLR-8 - Astroworld

 

 

 

Having ridden all but 2 of them (Bat and Hayabusa), here's how I would rate them on a school (A-F) scale, and why.

 

The Bat - Didn't ride, as it was closed the one day I was there. Heard ONLY opposite opinions about it, either really good or really bad. No opinion.

 

Big Bad Wolf C+ Nice ride, nice pacing, but the second lift just ruined the fun factor, and brakes on the drop, not good.

 

*Dream Catcher D+ It's a credit. Didn't ride it as "Air Race", but it just took it's sweet time meandering around the course. The open Vekoma trains didn't help.

 

Eagle's Fortress A++ Didn't look like much. Getting off the lift and starting so slowly, it felt like it never stopped accelerating - all the way to the final brakes!! Joey said it best that first ERT, "There's NO WAY that this thing isn't tearing itself apart!! Rides are NOT supposed to do this!! No wonder they're taking it out!" (A side note for those that may not know - I believe that Robb, Elissa or someone else can confirm this - It *WAS* scheduled to be removed after the 2007 season, with T-Express opening in 2008. BUT, after its' ranking in Mitch's poll in 2007, the park decided not to remove it just yet. Unfortunately, that was a short-lived reprieve. )

 

Flight Deck B Fun ride, beginning to end. Just when it gets interesting, it's over. Too short.

 

Hayabusa Didn't ride. No opinion.

 

Iron Dragon C- They don't call it "Draggin Iron" for no reason! Though I do like how it weaves around the trees.

 

Ninja B- I like the short lift at the beginning, nice swinging action, but the final brakes and lift hill at the end just KILL the experience for me.

 

Vampire (Before Vekoma) C+ Nice station. First half is quite dull, especially getting to the 2nd lift. Nice ending back into the station. (After Vekoma) D The lighter trains absolutely killed the boring first half. It also made the ending quite forgettable.

 

Vortex B- Takes a bit to get up to speed, and just holds it. Again, too short, but a nice layout around the mountain and over the water.

 

XLR-8 D Just slow and boring, both forward and backwards. Reminded me kid rolling a marble back and forth (and back and forth) on one of those wooden labyrinth games, always waiting for something exciting to happen, and it didn't.

 

 

My two cents - which is usually worthless anyway.

 

 

JJ

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I may not have been on it, but after a few BBW POV videos,......

 

I'll try and add a little credibility here.

 

* Dream Catcher - Bobbejaanland, I thought this was built by Arrow as Air Race, then modified by Vekoma to become Dream Catcher. (Someone can probably correct me on this, but for now, I'll include it.)

JJ

 

Actually, Arrow didn't supply Bobbejaanland's ride. That is one of Vekoma's three 'Swinging Turns' installations, which "borrowed" heavily from Arrow's engineering.

 

-Scotty

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Actually, Arrow didn't supply Bobbejaanland's ride. That is one of Vekoma's three 'Swinging Turns' installations, which "borrowed" heavily from Arrow's engineering.

 

-Scotty

 

Thanks for the correction! For some reason, I remembered riding DC with Erik (Vekoma engineer) and remember talking to him about Vampire and the changes they made to it, and somehow I associated the two. I guess it was just the open Vekoma cars.

 

Thanks again!

 

JJ

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^ Vekoma did make the changes to Vampire and Air Race. Vampire was an Arrow, Air Race was a Vekoma. I know You've been on at least one of the other Vekoma installations, Grampus Jet at Mistui Greenland.

Edited by robbalvey
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Grampus Jet at Mistui Greenland.

 

Is that the Shamu coaster, from Mitsui (HOTTER THAN HELL) Greenland? Couldn't quite tell from RCDB.

 

Yep--that's the one.

615368720_Ch505.jpg.dfaa3fc3c24109c66490f0847b4c3546.jpg

The oddly named Grampus Jet.

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I have been on BBW and the Iron Dragon but it's tough to even make a comparison. As for the removal, I have a few reasons for being upset about the loss of the Wolf. First, it has a HUGE footprint in my coaster memory as either my first or second major attraction at age four or five...I think. Naturally, you're going to be upset when anything from your childhood is not just changed but destroyed, kind of like watching a familiar house get demolished or learning your Mom threw away one of your better toys. I can't remember BGW without the Wolf being there.

 

Second, it was great eye candy. Yes, coasters are NOT exactly created for their aesthetic appearance but this one looked good going down into the ravine. I can't think of another drop that was so tame yet packed so much visual anticipation into the onlookers walking over the bridge into Oktoberfest. Not to mention, the town was very attractive while onride and also looked great back when the Drachen Fire area gave you a clear view of the entire setting.

 

Third, we can all agree that it was a unique ride. When another coaster is bulldozed there is usually a similar alternative within the same park or atleast at a reasonable driving distance. With the Wolf, you don't get that and the experience is simply gone. Yes, there are other suspendeds still running (for now) but the ravine was unique.

 

And lastly, it was completely unexpected. The ride, while old and a bit small compared to its neighbors, was still quite enjoyable for most of us as well as the GP who were still riding it. Had they proposed the plan to remove it at the beginning of its 25th season I think that its demise would have settled in a bit better. However, they gave almost zero time for some of us to get ourselves out there and have one last go on it. Many of us couldn't even imagine the famous Big Bad Wolf would ever go, especially so suddenly.

 

Now to be honest, none of these are good enough reasons to have kept the removal from happening and I am sure that BGW weighed other options. It was just something sad and unexpected and those of us with a strange affection towards the ride were quite bummed, especially if our last ride was years ago. However, I keep on hearing about this new attraction going in its place. With the latest news and rumors, I think that the thought process behind taking down the BBW starts to become more clear. Despite that, it will always have a lasting impression on some of us just like your first car may have had an impression on you. No matter how flawed it may have, you miss it and would sometimes like to pay it a visit.

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