Let's be honest here... Big Bad Wolf wasn't THAT amazing...

[Garet]

Eagles Fortress may have been amazing but how many people really have memories of Eagles Fortress

The millions of Koreans that rode it between 1992 and 2009? Do their childhood memories not count for anything? Remember, Everland is a year-round park. I'm sure a lot of people rode that coaster during those 17 years and I've got to think that ONE of them has some sort of memory about it.

 

--Robb

 

Funny you mention that because I have asked my students about this and generally the answer is yes it was a great ride and it's a shame it shut down but T-express opened on the other side of the park so they are happy to keep going to Everland for that.

 

People don't even seem bothered that it's been left with a note saying being refurbished for 2 years although my adult students tell me there is now a new sign saying its being replaced (don't hold me to that until i've gone out to check it myself later this week - work schedule permitting) and even though the rollercoaster community wants it saved the Koreans (the people who actually visit this park 3-4 times a year) are more than happy for it to go if it means something new and different.

 

Rob

[robbalvey]

Absolutely! Think about the operational and mechanical challenges that ride faces:

 

- Two lift hills

- Track over water

- Trains that include multiple shocks on each car of each train

- It's 25 years old

- The TWO companies that originally built and designed it no longer exist.

- The coaster no longer got the annual ridership it did 10-15 years ago

 

Robb you have hit exactly almost every reason why the coaster left. I had the privilege of being a supervisor for BBW in spring of 2009 before moving over to Roman Rapids. While the ride was popular and only 25 years old, it was damn near impossible to maintain anymore.

Wow! Thank you for that confirmation. I was only just going off pure guess combined with my years of park experience. I guess that all paid off!

 

--Robb

[robbalvey]

Eagles Fortress may have been amazing but how many people really have memories of Eagles Fortress

The millions of Koreans that rode it between 1992 and 2009? Do their childhood memories not count for anything? Remember, Everland is a year-round park. I'm sure a lot of people rode that coaster during those 17 years and I've got to think that ONE of them has some sort of memory about it.

 

--Robb

 

Funny you mention that because I have asked my students about this and generally the answer is yes it was a great ride and it's a shame it shut down but T-express opened on the other side of the park so they are happy to keep going to Everland for that.

 

People don't even seem bothered that it's been left with a note saying being refurbished for 2 years although my adult students tell me there is now a new sign saying its being replaced (don't hold me to that until i've gone out to check it myself later this week - work schedule permitting) and even though the rollercoaster community wants it saved the Koreans (the people who actually visit this park 3-4 times a year) are more than happy for it to go if it means something new and different.

 

Rob

That's very interesting to hear. I kind of wish some American's could have a better balance between "nostalgia" and "up and coming." I'm not saying don't be nostalgic about something, but at the same time, don't let it impact the future that could bring something really great for generations to come.

 

I have heard rumor that Intamin has been seen at the Eagle's Fortress site. Wouldn't it be kind of funny if both BBW and EF were replaced with some kind of Intamin terrain launched coaster?

 

--Robb "I'd be ALL FOR THAT!!!" Alvey

[SharkTums]

Wouldn't it be kind of funny if both BBW and EF were replaced with some kind of Intamin terrain launched coaster?

 

--Robb "I'd be ALL FOR THAT!!!" Alvey

 

Same.

[printersdevil78]

Big Bad Wolf was my first "real" roller coaster (and I didn't ride another one for a number of years thereafter... but I digress). I'm a fan of Arrow suspendeds, and as with many out there, I thought BBW was the best of the bunch. Having said that, I live less than four hours from the park, and I didn't bother making a special trip for "one last ride."

 

Jason "And I'm the most nostalgic person I know!" R.

[coasterer]

For me, riding BBW was ALL about riding a piece of history. I mean, I'm relatively young and from the midwest, and didn't get a chance to ride it til early 2009. I thought it was alright, nothing really that special from the perspective of ride quality, although that last drop over the river was a surprisingly beautiful. We only rode it once, in tribute. But I definitely wasn't going to forego the chance to pay my respects to one of the most important pieces of roller coaster history, while I was able to. To me, riding BBW is like riding the Cyclone. Nobody reeeeally is in love with the ride, but if there's one coaster almost everyone in America has heard of it's that one, and it's done a ton for the industry. And ride quality aside, as enthusiasts I totally see the appeal in paying respect to roller coaster history, especially as that history disappears.

 

I do not, however, think that BGE is any less appealing from an enthusiast standpoint, except that it loses that history. I once overheard a pair of mid-twenties enthusiasts at the opening of I305 who were so upset that BBW was taken down that "BGE was no longer worth making a trip to." And that, I have a little bit of a problem with, and I think is an unfair under-appreciation for the efforts to push the design industry forward. BBW did a lot for the roller coaster industry, and for that, it's sad to see it go. But it wasn't a spectacular ride by today's standards, no.

 

As far as Korea is concerned, I work as a camp counselor over the summers, and we had an 11 year old girl from Korea who was visiting family for a month in the states. She spoke virtually no English, and both the other kids and the staff had a really hard time communicating with her. So for kicks, I went up to her one day, and managed to start a broken conversation about Everland, which she was so excited about that I knew. And while she recognized the words Eagle's Fortress, her eyes lit up when I mentioned T-Express. And from what I can tell, while she grew up with eagle's fortress and liked it, there was so more excitement from her about T-Express, even though when I asked if she had ridden it or ever would, she shook her head vigorously and was able to remember the english word for "scared". Convincing her that all the other kids in camp didn't know about Everland, and that she couldn't talk to them about it too, was a little harder hahaha.

[SoCalCoasters]

Wouldn't it be kind of funny if both BBW and EF were replaced with some kind of Intamin terrain launched coaster?

 

--Robb "I'd be ALL FOR THAT!!!" Alvey

 

Same.

 

 

I third that notion.

 

I never got to ride Big Bad Wolf, and I've never had the pleasure of going to BGW.

 

I have however mangaged to ride Ninja and Iron Dragon and both, I thought were reat rides. People hate on Iron Dragon, saying it's boring etc. I actually found it to be quite enjoyable, as well as Ninja. I'm not the superhardcore rides all rides enthusiast, but I feel these rides were quite advanced for their time.

 

And, to add to this, I have this video:

 

 

This this BEAST of a ride, no reference intended was removed, did anyone rush to save it?

 

As far as I've heard, it was an absolutely fantastic coaster, and it was torn down, seemingly without anyone complaining.

 

 

I love Arrow Suspendeds, but I think BBW was just at the end of it's life span, just as Ninja one day will, same with Iron Dragon

 

 

-SoCal "I rest my case" Coasters

[Pufferfish]

I felt that since I have always had a bit of a spot in my heart for this ride, I should add my own insight into this. BBW was the first "big" coaster I had ever ridden and is probably what plunged me into my full love of rollercoasters. My experience with this ride is, not as it being an amazing ride, but as it being something routine that I always rode on every one of my trips to the park. To me, it felt like a best friend. Thus in the final year of its life, I felt obligated to give it a proper send off. Many others probably felt this same way and thus the surge in popularity at the end of its life.

 

I never considered this ride one of the greats, in fact I ranked it the lowest out of the rides at the park while it was still around. Even so, my feelings toward this ride are of a very high nostalgic value, thus I look at it through rose colored glasses. I don't see its flaws anymore, I see it for what it means to me. Having spent some of the happiest moments of my life sitting on its train, yes it does bring sorrow to me to see its empty station, but you know what, let bygones be bygones. If the ride that replaces it is anything like what people are hinting at, I say bring on the change!

 

It's just like buying a new car really.

[robbalvey]

For me, riding BBW was ALL about riding a piece of history....To me, riding BBW is like riding the Cyclone. Nobody reeeeally is in love with the ride, but if there's one coaster almost everyone in America has heard of it's that one.

I see where you're coming from. But I'm not sure BBW and the Coney Island Cyclone are really on par with each other. I think the Coney Island Cyclone is far more "historic" and known to pretty much everyone in the USA, but BBW is really only going to be nolstalgic to people within a few hundred mile radius of the park, or coaster enthusiasts.

 

I know people who live across the country who have gotten married at Coney Island...I'm not sure the Big Bad Wolf ever had that kind of draw. But I do totally get what you're saying.

 

I guarantee you if I went to my local mall and asked random people "You know they tore down the Coney Island Cyclone?" they'd probably go "Oh, what a shame..." if I asked them "You know they tore down the Big Bad Wolf" they'd say "Was that a nudey bar around here or something?'

 

I once overheard a pair of mid-twenties enthusiasts at the opening of I305 who were so upset that BBW was taken down that "BGE was no longer worth making a trip to." And that, I have a little bit of a problem with

Agreed. And this right here is the mentality I'm talking about. It's one thing to be bummed out about an attraction leaving, like I still miss the Peoplemover at Disneyland, but it's another thing to say you no longer want to visit the park because of it.

 

As far as I've heard, The Bat was an absolutely fantastic coaster, and it was torn down, seemingly without anyone complaining

Right, but there is a HUGE difference between taking out BBW because it's old, hard to maintain, and not as popular and taking out The Bat, which flat out just didn't work right. And keep in mind The Bat was taking out LONG before there was an Internet or roller coaster clubs in great numbers to let people who lived outside of the Cincinnati area of it's demise.

 

And I've heard conflicting reports about how "awesome" The Bat really was. I've heard one side that say "it's the most amazing ride I've ever been on..." I've heard the other side that says "They are only saying that because they are one of the few people who got to ride it. I've been on it, it was just ok."

 

I tend to lean towards the non-bragging rights people!

 

--Robb

Edited December 25, 2010 by robbalvey

[coasterer]

^Sure haha, Big Bad Wolf won't illicit QUITE the same response as Cyclone, I wasn't really saying that. Just as a comparison, I'm not going to go ride Cyclone because it's gonna break my top ten, I'm gonna ride it because it's the most famous coaster in the country, and I'm especially gonna go ride it if word gets around that they're tearing it down. Same with BBW, I may not love riding it, but it's famous enough and historic enough that I'll get to it before it shuts down, just to pay my respects- that's the way it was for me, and probably for a lot of other enthusiasts.

 

Heres to hoping that one day there exists a real nudey bar called the "Big Bad Wolf"

[adavis]

If Iron Dragon ever gets an outpouring of respect like BBW has, I will puke

[saginawhxc]

Unfortunately I never got to ride it.

 

I made my first visit ever to the park this year. Out of the 18 different parks I visited this year I think BGE was probably my second favorite park overall. I'm sorry but I don't think BBW would of even impacted my overall opinion very much.

 

I understand that people have an emotional attachment to it. While growing up Iron Dragon was my favorite coaster and was also my first "big" coaster. For each of my three boys it was also their first "big" coaster and was their favorite ride at one point of time. So when the day comes when Cedar Point announces that Iron Dragon is gonna be gone I will be sad and the boys and I will rush out for one last ride together. That being said I doubt we will really miss it.

 

The saddest part about it being gone will be the loss of something that can be ridden by kids in the 42-48" range. Past that who cares. There are much better rides out there.

[Taylorboi72]

My name is Marc. I view theme park review a lot but have not commented before. Its a great site and i love roller coasters. I used to work Sea World Parks and Entertainment and also when it was BEC (miss the free beer, lol). I think it was a good thing that Big Bad Wolf was dismantled and it was announced that they are getting a similar coaster to Cheetah Hunt (should be called Cheetaka) in Tampa. Of course it is sad when any decent or good coaster is torn down but if I was asked," would I rather ride an old Arrow coaster or a modern Inta-ride coaster, of course my answer would be Inta-ride or Intamin."

Just saying....

[VinTheAttendant]

I can totally understand people not feeling the same way about loosing the ride as I am.

I don't recall tightness ever being an issue with the ride.

 

Thanks Robb!

[zburns999]

I haven't been to Busch Gardens since 2002 (maybe?), so I can't say too much concerning Big Bad Wolf. From what I remember it was a really fun ride. Deffinitely not "wowing" by any means, but a great alternative to the much more intimidating Loch Ness Monster, Alpengeist, and Apollo's Chariot. What I do remember most about the ride, however, was how cool it was to watch from that bridge over the river. I can remember crowds of people stopping to watch that final descent out from the trees to the water below. Just a really neat element. As a ride though, I can't say much more than that it was a lot of fun for all of the same reasons everyone has mentioned a million times over. I would deffinitely say Vortex at Canada's Wonderland is the superior ride. Both are leagues better than Iron Dragon, however.

 

Now, I understand that the general consensus is that this wasn't that great of a ride, and just because some people may have a personal attachment for it doesn't mean it should be held to such high regard. Yeah, I can see that point of view, but I think I'll miss the BBW for a slightly different reason--the same reason I'll miss Canyon River Rapids at Hersheypark way more than most "enthusiasts." As somebody who visits most of my parks with family, it's always nice when a park has one or two rides I can get excited about with my family. Sure, when I visited Busch Gardens eight years ago, I was pretty pumped for the two B&M's and Loch Ness Monster, but what I remember most was sitting around in the hotel room trying to convince my mom and sister to try out Big Bad Wolf when we were at the park the next day. My sister ended up riding, and that was a big deal for her. By far her highlight of the trip. Now, if Big Bad Wolf had been dismantled prior to our visit, there would have been a huge void; it would have been a dissappointment for me as an enthusiast, but for my sister it might have really ruined the trip. So yeah, it really comes down to the concept that if you're gonna get rid of a fantastic family thrill ride, you better build something nice to replace it. Not a damn lazy river (thanks, Hersheypark).

[maverickpoint]

i went on this ride on my 8th grade trip to d.c. 6 or 7 years ago and i dont really remember much of it. it was the first ride i went on i think and i remember it going through a lot of trees and a crazy drop but dont remember much. hm...guess that answers that

[PayneTrain]

Actually, I think a larger reason for the ride's removal was the lack of parts. With Arrow going out of business there was no longer parts for the ride in production BBW was bound to close eventually. The idea of creating a new ride and attracting more people by replacing a ride that would be very expensive to maintain is quite good.

Absolutely! Think about the operational and mechanical challenges that ride faces:

 

- Two lift hills

- Track over water

- Trains that include multiple shocks on each car of each train

- It's 25 years old

- The TWO companies that originally built and designed it no longer exist.

- The coaster no longer got the annual ridership it did 10-15 years ago

 

I'm sure there are more, and when a park looks at how much money they have to spend annually to keep up a 25 year old ride versus buying something that is new which comes with less baggage and is more marketable for years to come.

 

I am sure that meetings were had to discuss the cost to keep BBW over the next ten years and the return that would generate versus building a new coaster.

 

I never said I thought the ride wasn't really cool. I really like Arrow suspendeds also. I never said that people shouldn't get nostalgic over it. I too have lots of wonderful memories from coasters no longer with us. I'm just saying that I don't think the ride was as be-all, end-all good as the mourners are making it out to be.

 

--Robb

 

Hearing this from you made my day, on here at least. I was never clear, I guess, on how I loved it, but have had it set in my mind since 2007 (the opening of Griffon) that the Big Bad Wolf was running on borrowed time.

 

In a literal way, it was. Over the course of the late 90's (I think, it was mid-life) 90% or so of the Wolf's track was replaced. In fact the only original track left by the closing, if I remember my reading correctly, was the near end of the brake run and the station. Vekoma manufactures maintenance parts for Arrow rides in operation, i believe. Still parts for the suspended model are harder to find than the commonplace Arrow Looper/Corckscrews because of the rarity of the ride type, before you even consider the complexity of one Swinger car compared to an Arrow Looper as a whole. Nessie isn't budging for a while because it is so much easier and probably cheaper to upkeep than the Wolf. I think the trains on the track were Vekoma, but still, it's like trying to fit an oval peg in a circular hole; it's gonna give you some resistance.

 

The Wolf was also like a mini-mountain range in the way of the parks Manifest Destiny of sorts--by which I mean future expansion. Here is a quote from another board I post on (BGEscape; I know I can't link directly, so I won't):

...the complex trains, made by a 3rd party in contrast to the defunct company who built the ride, Have multiple mechanics stowed inside of it, like hydraulics, sensors for the hydraulics, joints, bolts, and other equipment just for the intense, vital "swinging" effect. The ride is also built in a forest, and low to the ground, which requires specialized landscaping crews.

 

I've also noticed that if any new area was to be built, you would need a larger pathway. That's how you always got inaccessability complaints in reviews pertaining to Drachen Fire. You would need to bulldoze and/or move the Dodgems (Autobahn) and likely, the Wolf, to structure any sort of new area for anything. Plus, it was hard enough for two roller coasters to coexist so close to each other. Sure, we have 3 coasters come nose to nose in the park, but we're talking entire layouts side-by side--We're not Cedar Fair here. And if an actual new area were to be built, it would either need to span the railway, or acquire space through demolition of the Wolf.

 

And I also had a rational realization of why this was happening.

Swinging roller coasters are nonexistent today anyway, I mean, less than 5 pop into my head that I could even get a credit for. To say that the concept of a swinging coaster was a failure is false, but saying it was a perfected design is not true either. Numerous attempts were made to make a swinging suspended coaster that I can think of, IE the Bat @ Kings Island, and by the time the "working version" came into theme parks like our Busch Gardens in Virginia, the "window of opportunity" so to speak, was gone. People weren't interested in the swinging concept anyore, the idea of intensity shifted to maximum levels of speed and Vertical G-Forces, a bill that the Wolf can't entirely fill. The Wolf doesn't have numerous drops (though it has one damn good one), lacks the now cliched concept of the floorless car, doesn't offer the forbidden fruits of airtime like its newer counterparts.

 

No matter how much we like it for its qualities we deem to be timeless, the sad fact is is that the tech behind it is outdated, the true essence of it isn't realized by most, and it may become more of a hazard to the management than we can seem to grasp. The compnay's focus has always been based on tradition and remembrance, but they look forward to bring new and exciting experience at any chance they can. While no flyer can match the intensity of the Big Bad Wolf, our red devil might get trumped by progress anyway.

 

Those are my pre-announcement of the removal/speculation thoughts, sans nostalgia. This is my HONEST opinion.

[robbalvey]

I can totally understand people not feeling the same way about loosing the ride as I am.

I don't recall tightness ever being an issue with the ride.

 

Thanks Robb!

Ha! You're welcome!

[Meteornotes]

Wouldn't it be kind of funny if both BBW and EF were replaced with some kind of Intamin terrain launched coaster?

 

--Robb "I'd be ALL FOR THAT!!!" Alvey

 

Same.

 

This would rule. And I'm someone that considers our ERT on Eagle's Fortress that one night to be the best coaster rides I have ever had. I will always miss the ride, but would love to see a new coaster using that terrain. Hope that happens.

 

dt

[Goliath513]

Before I first rode it on the TPR east coast trip back in 2008, I heard it was this "OMFG ride experience that would blow every other Arrow suspended out of the water." It did not live up to that hype in my opinion, and it was more of a unique terrain ride experience than this out of control amazing thrill ride it was said to be. I still prefer SFMM's Ninja before and after riding Big Bad Wolf. As far as nostalgia goes, I agree with what has been said about balance of maintenance costs and popularity. Being barely in the top 100 and the short lines it had on our east coast trip day compared to the park's other rides, I can see why it was removed given the maintenance costs. I understand some might feel for it if it was their first roller coaster, but that's the case with many older coasters - they reach the end of their lifespan. I personally know what it is like to see someone's first coaster demolished as how I felt watching Knott's Windjammer demolition coverage back in 2001.

 

In August this year, I went back to the park with several friends, and I was more disappointed one of my friends never got to experience Big Bad Wolf than I was about not getting to ride it again. With everything else great about the park, it was pretty easy to overlook it being gone. We paid our respects for a few minutes at the bridge and moved on to enjoy the rest of our day without being bitter about it. On the bright side, Big Bad Wolf being gone left more time for us to marathon Apollo's Chariot at night!

[Skycoastin Steve]

I always thought it was a fun coaster. Nothing life changing, although it was probably one of the first 10 or 15 coasters I rode in my life, and was one of the ones that really got me into coasters (the other major one being Drachen Fire, go figure). Riding it was always more of a novelty to me than anything else, and as others have said, it was a great nostalgic experience. I was most definitely bummed out when they removed it, but I have a good feeling that its replacement will do plenty to make up for it.

[TheStig]

The trains weren't that incredibly complicated, especially by today's standards. They may have been way back when, but considering what goes in to a new ride vehicle the BBW trains are tinker toys. I would honestly say that the Arrow looping and suspended trains are similarly complex, if you want to even call it that.

 

I never saw the big draw about BBW, or any Arrow suspended to be honest. They are great family rides but that's about it (well minus EF apparently, but still I think that with a 42" height requirement it would fall in to that category, much like the insane PAX coasters). Out of the three that I've ridden Ninja was okay, Iron Wolf...was Iron Wolf, and Top Gun was probably the best, but still nowhere near the top of my list.

 

I'd be more upset of a ride like SFGAm's Viper got torn down, or even a B:TR clone because those are GOOD rides worth visiting a park for.

[robbalvey]

I felt that since I have always had a bit of a spot in my heart for this ride, I should add my own insight into this. BBW was the first "big" coaster I had ever ridden and is probably what plunged me into my full love of rollercoasters. ... Even so, my feelings toward this ride are of a very high nostalgic value, thus I look at it through rose colored glasses. I don't see its flaws anymore, I see it for what it means to me. Having spent some of the happiest moments of my life sitting on its train, yes it does bring sorrow to me to see its empty station, but you know what, let bygones be bygones...

 

It's just like buying a new car really.

Or more like when you have to sell the car you lost your virginity in?

 

I think I kind of get it now...

 

--Robb "Although I'm not sure many TPR members will totally get that analogy!" Alvey

[the ghost]

I REALLY liked Big Bad Wolf, and I went before it was even close to being torn down. Granted I liked Apollo a little more, and I liked it about the same as Aplengeist, but the ride was absolutely CHARMING. I loved that it was terrain based, I loved that there was an awesome village section, and I ABSOLUTELY loved the dive by the Rhine River.

 

All this taken into account I am sad the ride is gone, despite not being a local. However, if they build something totally bad ass, which sounds like it is happening, then I will be completely satisfied with the removal of the coaster. I loved the ride and I will always like it, I like Ninja, but that dive was awesome and is my favorite coaster ending I can think of, while ninja is one of my least favorite ride endings. We'll see what happens, but as of now consider me as someone who REALLY liked the ride, but trusts that Busch knows what they are doing!

[CoasterGuy06]

I have only been to BGE once, and Big Bad Wolf was the only "adult" coaster there that I only rode once, so that should tell you my thoughts on the ride. The big thing people don't like to think about is theme parks are a business. If you are paying a ton of money, which I guarantee they were doing, vs building a shiny new ride which you will pay a hefty price up front BUT you can market it to increase your crowds. which will you pick? Which will the park pick? BG has answered it for us, and it is a smart business move.