Did Summers/Dinn make ANY good coasters?

[dragonskeep]

The Dania Beach Hurricane is at a freakin arcade and is one of the most awesomely fun rides I have been on. I think they built that thing for around 2 million bucks, that's like stealing for the ride they got. DBH would be the best woodie in many well known parks. I would love to see Florida get an Intamin woodie.

[Skycoastin Steve]

^DBH was made by Coaster Works, Inc., not Summers/Dinn.

[Mozart67]

How a coaster can go to hell in a given amount of time, I think, depends on shifts in any one of the complex variables for running one: operations, maintenance, economy, weather, wear and tear, etc. I dont even know where to begin speculating on that.

 

The earlier comment of "Ghostrider" as compared to "Boulder Dash" got me thinking though. I think the ones that survive or at least hold up well against time and tear have the jackpot combination of rough/out of control woodies from the past, a well-built/well-maintained structure, and a design that also incorporates fluidity and..sinew, for lack of a better word. I remember Judge Roy Scream in 1980 being rough but a really smooth ride, where as Screamin' Eagle being high on thrills but felt like a tavern brawl. My only Curtis Summers experiences were the opening year of Timber Wolf, which didnt really leave an impression either way, and Compounce's Wildcat, which is Assault with a Deadly Fail! Two chiro visits later...

 

This is off topic, sort of, but the Beast seems remarkably fresh considering its age, and its origin: its makers only have made it and/or one other ride ever, and in Jeff Gramke's case, it was his only one. Al Collins was involved with the Stricker ride and Charlie Dinn's listed as the builder for the original Compounce Wildcat (before the drunken rape..er..redesign of '86). Many still compare to Beast, and the coaster itself is kind of an anomaly, since its not really part of a desinger's stable. great fluidity and contour to the terrain bits as well.

 

Sorry; kind of rambled a little. My take, anyway.

[Blind Idiot God]

For some reason, my experience with Wildcat wasn't as bad as I thought it was. It might have been because I rode it in the front and right after the park opened on an October night, but I didn't experience any of the fabled roughness that I've heard about. Sure, it was fairly boring and didn't offer much of anything besides maybe a slight pop of air here and there, but it didn't exactly beat the crap out of me.

[LcHg5265]

For some reason, my experience with Wildcat wasn't as bad as I thought it was. It might have been because I rode it in the front and right after the park opened on an October night, but I didn't experience any of the fabled roughness that I've heard about. Sure, it was fairly boring and didn't offer much of anything besides maybe a slight pop of air here and there, but it didn't exactly beat the crap out of me.

 

Sit in the front or back of any car (except the front seat). If your feeling lucky...sit in the back row.

[dragonskeep]

^DBH was made by Coaster Works, Inc., not Summers/Dinn.

 

I read the plaque. The point was in reference to a very small park having a great running woodie.

[Blind Idiot God]

For some reason, my experience with Wildcat wasn't as bad as I thought it was. It might have been because I rode it in the front and right after the park opened on an October night, but I didn't experience any of the fabled roughness that I've heard about. Sure, it was fairly boring and didn't offer much of anything besides maybe a slight pop of air here and there, but it didn't exactly beat the crap out of me.

 

Sit in the front or back of any car (except the front seat). If your feeling lucky...sit in the back row.

 

My friend sat in a wheel seat and wasn't beaten up. I dunno, maybe we just caught it on a good day.

[HowieP]

Of Dinn/Summer coasters I've ridden, I've only rode two: Wolverine Wildcat (which was my first wooden coaster experience: I rode it the year it opened!) and Mean Streak. Wolverine was, and is, still a good runner. It may not be the most exciting coaster, but it gets the job done. Then there's Mean Streak. I rode this back in 1999 and it was good. Then I rode it again last year, and man oh man! It was rougher than my 5 o' clock shadow, never mind the fact that Cedar Point added trim brakes it at the top!

 

On a side note, Shivering Timbers is also starting to show its age. While the airtime is still there, when I rode it this year I was shocked at how much it left me hurting. It was always one of my favorite coasters; now I don't know anymore. But as stated, it has to do with maintenance. I think it's time Timbers got some Timberliners from GravityKraft!

[xVicesAndVirtues]

Of the Summers/Dinn coasters I've been on, I found that both Predator and Mean Streak were both pretty rough, except for in the front row. I'm definitely sharing the anti-PTC feeling in this topic here...out of the GCI woodies I've been on, Gwazi and Roar East are by far the worst, and they're the only two I've been on with the PTC trains. Roar West, Wildcat, and Lightning Racers, on the other hand, all run fantastic even after they've been around and subjected to the elements for years, so it definitely seems like the Millennium Flyers help. Government Millennium Flyer stimulus package for all the PTC-cursed woodies, anyone?

 

I have to say, though, there are some woodies out there that I've found to be a LOT worse than any Summers/Dinn coasters. Rolling Thunder at Six Flags Great Adventure is god-awful, and Cyclone at Six Flags New England used to be absolutely terrible before they started giving it tons of TLC over the past 5 years or so.

 

I have to add...there's one Dinn-built coaster that I LOVE, but wasn't designed by Curtis Summers. It's Wild One at Six Flags America...John Miller designed, Dinn-built.

[Myself]

Although he obviously didn't design it, Dinn was involved in the reconstruction of the Phoenix...does that count?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the same applies to the Twister as well...

[SenseOFone]

I've read through this whole thread, and everyone seems to be missing a crutial point.

 

The type of wood that is used would affect the ride as well. Most modern coasters are built out of pine, which is a cheap, lightweight wood. I believe most older coasters were built out of fir, which is a heavier, more dense, but also more expensive wood. Pine does not hold up against the vibrations as well as fir, causing more structural shifts. I don't believe by any means that it's the only cause, nor the most important. Just interesting reading that no one considered it.

[Zingoman]

^Your points on the wood are VERY valid. Older rides were seemingly always made of fir. Very heavy and sturdy stuff. That's why you see such a difference in the structure of modern woodies compared to the old timers. If anyone on here is following the work over at Puyallup Fair you see they are changing the fir structure to pine and it's a big different in how the ride is built. Compare Gemini to Mean Streak as well. Yes the rides heve very different dynamics but build Gemini from pine and you'll have a more dense structure (Colossus, or American Eagle). Pine is light and cheap and really doesn't hold up very well. Dinn coasters were among the most dynamic in their day and were always built with pine. Also Dinn hadn't quite mastered the art of transitions due to the limits of PTC's rolling stock. PTC put out the trailored design (a topic worthy of it's own thread for discussion) to negotiate the banking better but was a total flop. I think cheap wood, and sub-par rolling stock combined with a few maintenance short comings really are all important factors in how these rides have faired over time.

[rollin_n_coastin]

Great discussion! Like most, I think ‘value engineering’ the materials form a part of it along with the trains. I really want to try Ravine Flyer II out again to see how it’s changed since opening year within a park that really looks after its attractions.

 

As far as D/S stuff, I really enjoyed Predator this year, so really not sure why there are such variations from year to year or month to month. It was very smooth. After trying out a lot of woodies, including a lot of D/S ones thanks to TPR, the roughest ones by far for me have been GGs. Being my favorite new rides of late, this was really upsetting since you could just imagine how awesome they once may have been. The Voyage and Hades have to be by far some of the roughest wooden coasters out there. Each are in a park perceived to provide better TLC to their attractions than the other so it can’t all be related to park upkeep.

 

I may not enjoy GCIs as much as others, but you have to hand it to them for building great products that in recent memory, aren’t featured in a similar discussion threads.

[Geauga Dog]

I have always thought that Predator was one of the good Dinn/Summers coasters. That's quite a bit of coaster in a narrow footprint. It was those old trailered trains that made the ride so brutal.

[Hercules]

Hercules.

[GwaziBSRider1]

I have really ridden only one "true" Dinn/Summers woodie and that would be "Mean Streak," which is one of my personal favorites. I was actually supposed be a ride operator on it for this past season, but things happened and I couldn't take the job. Yes, it is very rough, but so is the number one woodie right now: "The Voyage." When I took my one ride on it, I was BEAT. I must say that I enjoyed "The Legend' much more.

 

Also, "The Beast" technically is a Dinn woodie. It's an epic woodie that has had some extra braking over these past years, which I thought this year was a bit lighter than a few years ago.

 

Summers was a structural engineer who worked on MANY roller coasters (indirectly brought up by a mention to his work on "Thunder Road"). If we go down this road, we can also bring up Kennywood's "Steel Phantom," as Summers designed much of the structure. Of course this coaster was a good ride (except for that horrid 80 mph turn) and has been improved wonderfully as "Phantom's Revenge."

[jynx242]

Great thread! I'll agree to most everything that has been said. There are a ton of variables to consider. I am of the "trains" school. PTC's have done their jobs well over the decades, but with the more maneuvers that the D/S coasters tried, along with the even more agressive designs of Gravity Group, the PTC's just aren't built to do those things. I think they seem to rip the heck out of the track which causes a rougher ride.

 

I don't bash too much on PTC's though, when I think of G-Trains (shudder)

 

David

[darienlakerules]

Rob- Silver comet it a alright ride at best. Rode it back in august and while a fun and bearable ride, nothing much in terms of airtime, some decent lateral forces, but other then that a alright coaster. I rode it probably like 10 time because there's not much else in the park and after that many rides I was beat.

As far as Predator goes I didn't get a chance to get out and ride the new trains, but the last time I rode back in 2009 DAMN it was rough. would just like them to build a new gci on the spot or somewhere else in the park. They need a decent woodie there.

[B.A.B]

The only thing I do when I always ride a woodie is in the front becuase it doesn't hurt at all,becuase this year I rode the Mean Streak for the 25th time,but always in the front.Although one time I rode in the second row in the first car of the train and it hurt really bad and it did the same thing with Hurler,hurt in the other seats but not in the front.Although it could just be my age that makes the ride so smooth.I even have the Son of Beast as my top 1 woodie becuase I ride in the front.

[Columbia]

To keep on topic - yes, they did make some amazing coasters (in the first few years of operation) and really contributed greatly to the "revival" of the woodie.

 

My two cents - in response to Robb's prompt - "Why do most GCI's seem to hold up well, sometimes a decade after debuting?" I think it's the maintenance plan that they set up with the park in addition to the regular maintenance form the park.

 

When I worked at then Marine World back in 2005, Roar wasn't running great. GCI was constantly calling corporate in OKC, wondering why they hadn't called to schedule their major refab on Roar's track. When the ride was finished with it's GCI refurb...it ran just like new.

 

Take a look at Santa Cruz and the Dipper runs smoother than ANY woodie outside an Intamin Plug and Play. Then again, the track is walked EVERY two hours.

[ScottBrown]

Yes the people in Santa Cruz know how to maintain a wooden coaster, last time I rode it it was getting a bit rough . . . rougher than I have ever felt it get before but it was still smother than most wooden coasters out there

[HappyEisentrout]

Wolverine Wildcat is my favorite of the Summers/Dinn coasters. Probably most likely because I grew up a few miles from the park and would go all the time from the moment I was tall enough to when I moved away in 2006. It is a wonderful just after a rain shower.

[samisthabomb]

In my opinion, the original Texas Giant was still a great ride when it was closed. Most people overexaggerate about the Giant's roughness. It really wasn't that bad! It's still one my favorite wooden coaster.

[HowieP]

I've read through this whole thread, and everyone seems to be missing a crutial point.

 

The type of wood that is used would affect the ride as well. Most modern coasters are built out of pine, which is a cheap, lightweight wood. I believe most older coasters were built out of fir, which is a heavier, more dense, but also more expensive wood. Pine does not hold up against the vibrations as well as fir, causing more structural shifts. I don't believe by any means that it's the only cause, nor the most important. Just interesting reading that no one considered it.

You are right. Just look at some of the older coasters like Blue Streak at Cedar Point. Compare it to Mean Streak also at Cedar Point. Height and size aside, Blue was probably made with Fir, and Mean was without a doubt made with pine. Blue is considered the better of the two woodies and stood the test of time since 1964. Mean, on the other hand, always needs work. This is part of the reason Mean was trimmed with brakes at the top of the first drop.

[bumprnugit]

Perhaps off topic, but I do believe D/C did make good coasters for their time, unfortunately for various reasons they did not hold up. Here are a few stickers I acquired during their banner year of 1990. I have aerial shots of the big four made that year but why I found these first is beyond me. Here they are, if it matters to anyone:

 

Dinn 1990.BMP

Dinn Corp Sticker 1990

Dinn DS 1990.BMP