chadster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ^ yeah, I've been curious too. I've ran a few checks, and without breaking any rules/laws/abuse of my resources, I'm fairly confident he's legit in this deal. If I can find something 100% I will post it, so far, I'm 95% Kat Jones and New Zealander Harold Garmonsway had Garmonsway's payment for the Big Dipper delivered FedEx to the current owner's agent Tom Woosnam on Thursday. So, given this, why don't they own it? WKYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfoot12 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ^How do two idiots from across the globe meet-up is the more interesting story I am trying to find out. I thought they said they met up through an online enthusiast forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardCraze Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ^How do two idiots from across the globe meet-up is the more interesting story I am trying to find out. I thought they said they met up through an online enthusiast forum. www.eharmony.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chadster Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ^^ That would be correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traincrossin Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Final UpdateJanuary 11, 2011 | Author stbdadmin This will most likely be the last update to this blog. It is a post I have not been looking forward to writing and have been thinking of how to word for a few days. Under legal advice, Harold and I have decided it is in our best interest to accept the break of our sale agreement and walk away. We do not know what this means for the future of the Big Dipper, but we do know that it will likely not involve us. It is an unfortunate decision but we felt, based on the past few months, that it was the one that had to be made. At the end of September, we made an agreement with the owners of the Big Dipper to purchase the ride. We sent them a down payment, with the agreement that the rest of the money would be paid after paperwork had been completed showing the legal transfer between the two parties. After the owners received the down payment, we were declared, both publicly and privately, to be the new owners. It has been our belief since that day that we were indeed the owners of the coaster. It was announced, by the owner, Mr Woosnam, to the news media in Cleveland, that we had taken ownership of the coaster as of September 30th. Since that day, I have attempted numerous times to get the legal documentation from him that I had been requesting. I was not willing to send any additional funds until this paperwork was completed. In the meantime, I was working diligently toward finding a new location for the Dipper, securing private funding, and anything else I could do until the project was able to move forward. By the end of October, I still had not received the paperwork I had been requesting and began the process of preparing, under legal guidance, my own documents that would only need a signature from him. In mid-November, Mr Woosnam contacted us, demanding the rest of the payment, in full, which was in breach of our previously agreed upon agreements and deadlines. He then severed all communication with Harold and myself, refusing to respond to my emails and demands for documentation before further payment or to a renegotiation of sale terms if that was what he wished. In light of these developments, I sought legal assistance from a lawyer specializing in property law. I was advised that Mr Woosnam was indeed in breach of our sale agreement, and that we had two options: Accept the breach and demand a return of our money, or take him to court and demand the enforcement of our agreement. After much discussion and deliberation, we decided that the first option was the best one, as we felt that even under the direction of a court, we did not stand much chance of succeeding in the enforcement of the agreement. We contacted Mr Woosnam with this decision. He has refused to respond to our attempts to contact him and ignored our demand to return the down payment. We are still balancing in the middle of a legal battle at this point. Mr Woosnam still holds the money we sent to secure the ownership of the coaster. Lacking the sale documentation that I had requested numerous times, it is questionable as to whom the ownership falls, though as the payment had not been in full, as per our agreement, it is likely that it resides with him still, despite his claims to the transfer in September. If we were to pursue this matter legally, it would be up to a court to decide. However, based on our past interactions, we have decided we will not pursue it legally and will give up any claim to ownership as soon as the money we paid is returned. It has now been over a month since we demanded the return of our down payment and we are seeking legal assistance in getting it back, as Mr Woosnam has ignored all communication and ignored all demands to repayment. It is unfortunate that his decision to break the agreement by refusing to submit documentation and arbitrarily changing the payment deadline has meant an end for a project that was progressing well. A relocation venue had been secured, a relocation company had been hired and a large portion of the money needed for the relocation had been secured through private funding. We were only waiting on the paperwork to move ahead and were within weeks of making an announcement. I apologize that many comments were not approved on the previous post – this was done under legal advice as many contained questions that could not be answered. On this post, I will not be able to approve any comments that include questions towards deeper information than is stated here. This is still a legal matter, and will continue to be until we receive a repayment of our down payment, or, in the best situation, Mr Woosnam decides to abide by our original agreement. Individuals who have donated money, please contact me directly at kjones@savethebigdipper.org. I can explain the options for the return of your donations, or the options for the redirection of your donations to other preservation efforts in the amusement industry. The good news is, the Big Dipper is not the only coaster that has people trying to save it, and there are many projects that could use the assistance as well. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skycoastin Steve Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 All kinds of shadiness going on in this episode, yet I'd be lying if I said I didn't see it coming a mile away. Impulse purchases on roller coasters rarely ever work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moose Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I'm glad she posted as much as she did, I didn't think we'd ever get that much honesty. I've always questioned the intent on the coaster's owner (The ones selling it to Kat). They have always seemed shady with the whole "You can rent storage from us..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Final UpdateJanuary 11, 2011 | Author stbdadmin This will most likely be the last update to this blog. It is a post I have not been looking forward to writing and have been thinking of how to word for a few days. Under legal advice, Harold and I have decided it is in our best interest to accept the break of our sale agreement and walk away. We do not know what this means for the future of the Big Dipper, but we do know that it will likely not involve us. It is an unfortunate decision but we felt, based on the past few months, that it was the one that had to be made. At the end of September, we made an agreement with the owners of the Big Dipper to purchase the ride. We sent them a down payment, with the agreement that the rest of the money would be paid after paperwork had been completed showing the legal transfer between the two parties. After the owners received the down payment, we were declared, both publicly and privately, to be the new owners. It has been our belief since that day that we were indeed the owners of the coaster. It was announced, by the owner, Mr Woosnam, to the news media in Cleveland, that we had taken ownership of the coaster as of September 30th. Since that day, I have attempted numerous times to get the legal documentation from him that I had been requesting. I was not willing to send any additional funds until this paperwork was completed. In the meantime, I was working diligently toward finding a new location for the Dipper, securing private funding, and anything else I could do until the project was able to move forward. By the end of October, I still had not received the paperwork I had been requesting and began the process of preparing, under legal guidance, my own documents that would only need a signature from him. In mid-November, Mr Woosnam contacted us, demanding the rest of the payment, in full, which was in breach of our previously agreed upon agreements and deadlines. He then severed all communication with Harold and myself, refusing to respond to my emails and demands for documentation before further payment or to a renegotiation of sale terms if that was what he wished. In light of these developments, I sought legal assistance from a lawyer specializing in property law. I was advised that Mr Woosnam was indeed in breach of our sale agreement, and that we had two options: Accept the breach and demand a return of our money, or take him to court and demand the enforcement of our agreement. After much discussion and deliberation, we decided that the first option was the best one, as we felt that even under the direction of a court, we did not stand much chance of succeeding in the enforcement of the agreement. We contacted Mr Woosnam with this decision. He has refused to respond to our attempts to contact him and ignored our demand to return the down payment. We are still balancing in the middle of a legal battle at this point. Mr Woosnam still holds the money we sent to secure the ownership of the coaster. Lacking the sale documentation that I had requested numerous times, it is questionable as to whom the ownership falls, though as the payment had not been in full, as per our agreement, it is likely that it resides with him still, despite his claims to the transfer in September. If we were to pursue this matter legally, it would be up to a court to decide. However, based on our past interactions, we have decided we will not pursue it legally and will give up any claim to ownership as soon as the money we paid is returned. It has now been over a month since we demanded the return of our down payment and we are seeking legal assistance in getting it back, as Mr Woosnam has ignored all communication and ignored all demands to repayment. It is unfortunate that his decision to break the agreement by refusing to submit documentation and arbitrarily changing the payment deadline has meant an end for a project that was progressing well. A relocation venue had been secured, a relocation company had been hired and a large portion of the money needed for the relocation had been secured through private funding. We were only waiting on the paperwork to move ahead and were within weeks of making an announcement. I apologize that many comments were not approved on the previous post – this was done under legal advice as many contained questions that could not be answered. On this post, I will not be able to approve any comments that include questions towards deeper information than is stated here. This is still a legal matter, and will continue to be until we receive a repayment of our down payment, or, in the best situation, Mr Woosnam decides to abide by our original agreement. Individuals who have donated money, please contact me directly at kjones@savethebigdipper.org. I can explain the options for the return of your donations, or the options for the redirection of your donations to other preservation efforts in the amusement industry. The good news is, the Big Dipper is not the only coaster that has people trying to save it, and there are many projects that could use the assistance as well. Link HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! TOLD YA SO!!!! Stupid people. And even dumber for still trying to fight it. Idiots. Total f**king idiots they are. Now I gotta try to get my money back. Edited January 11, 2011 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Also, I just wanted to add that I do not feel sorry for Kat & Kiwi in the least bit. Here's why... - They should have NEVER told people they "owned" the Big Dipper when they actually didn't. What total idiots. They went on television and the newspapers and lied about their ownership of the ride...when they didn't really own it yet! Really? You did this? You're that dumb? You don't own the house until it goes through escrow and you get the keys. Everyone knows this. - They should have NEVER been taking anyone's money until they "got the keys." They lied to people in order to convince them to donate money. Isn't this illegal? It's certainly immoral. Either way, Kat & Kiwi are BAD PEOPLE for doing this. - This entire story shows and proves they had zero business sense and no clue as to what they were doing. - What is this "explain the options" to get your money back? No, I'm sorry, the only option is... GIVE IT BACK! You took it...now give it back! Clean and simple. Hey Kat, here's an idea - "Stop spending my money on lawyers and GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK!!!" You're an idiot for buying the ride in the first place, but you're an EVEN BIGGER IDIOT if you're still trying to fight this! You failed. Deal with it. Suck it up and go home...and give people their money back. - Her letter reads like she is trying to come off as the "innocent victim" here, but honestly, I feel Kat & Kiwi are just as shady as the other guy who owns the ride. Take some personal responsibility Kat. I think we all would respect you more if you just came out and said "Look guys, we really didn't have a plan, we don't have any money, and we didn't have the business sense to make this work. We screwed up, we lied to you, and we're sorry." But no, you're making this out like you did NOTHING WRONG!!! That's pure crap! Don't be a terrible human, Kat...take responsibility. Everyone in this room knows you lied to people, you lied to the press, and you lied to the people who were counting on you. We all know that now. There is no reason to continue to lie. Just tell us the truth that we all know. Hello white elephant. He's standing RIGHT THERE. No need to hide it. - And finally - I don't buy it. If Kat & Kiwi really had money, or really had a plan, why would the deal fall through? Sure, that dude may be shady, but I also think if there was real money on the table, he'd take it and run. Clearly, there was no money on the table. I totally blame Kat & Kiwi for this entire debacle. They are liars and swindlers. Yes, that Woosman guy is probably also just as shady, but in this incident, I see no other party here which is really "at fault" other than Kat & Kiwi. It's honestly just really sickening and disturbing what people will go through to try and make a buck. I really hope this scars them for life. They deserve it for getting people's hopes up by lying to them. --Robb "Prince Desmond was less of a scam artist than these people were." Alvey Edited January 11, 2011 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testtrack321 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I live about 20 minutes away, want me to go take pictures of me laughing at it or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackskellington101 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 - What is this "explain the options" to get your money back? No, I'm sorry, the only option is... GIVE IT BACK! You took it...now give it back! Clean and simple. Hey Kat, here's an idea - "Stop spending my money on lawyers and GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK!!!" "Explain the options" = We don't have the money anymore. This will only get messier. Oof, what a total debacle. At least Prince Desmond was honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 At least Prince Desmond was honest. Quote of the day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatdaddy Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Does Elissa get to burn it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I just received this email from Kat: from kjones@savethebigdipper.orgto Robb Alvey date Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 9:06 AM subject Re: Please refund my Big Dipper donation A refund through PayPal will not include the fees deducted by PayPal. The returned amount will be $xx.xx. You may be able to receive a full return of funds by filing a PayPal dispute, in which case I will take whatever steps necessary to ensure it is not challenged. Please let me know which option you'd like to pursue. My response: from Robb Alvey to kjones@savethebigdipper.org date Tue, Jan 11, 2011 at 9:23 AM subject Re: Please refund my Big Dipper donation mailed-by themeparkreview.com hide details 9:23 AM (1 minute ago) I donated $xxx. You can send me exactly $xxx. When I refund someone's money via PayPal with the TPR store, it also refunds the fees. Do some research on something for the first time in your life. Send me the $xxx. I will not accept anything less. I'm also posting this to the forum so people can see you are still trying to screw them out of money. --Robb Alvey Seriously, WTF? On every PayPal transaction I have through the system there is an "Issue refund" button. (see image below) If I click that, I can refund the entire order, INCLUDING the PayPal fees! I made my donation less than 60 days ago. And then other option is she says I should file a dispute with PayPal? Are you kidding me? Kat, you're telling me that in order for me to get my money back, I have to go through more work and more hassle??? Sorry, Kat. Refund my money. No excuses, please. She should refund everything! Including the PayPal fees!!! What a scam artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ccron10 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 At least Prince Desmond was honest. Yes, at least he didn't say that he owned the Big Dipper. This plays a BIG difference between Kat & Kiwi and Prince Desmond. After going on GLT, I'm amazed at how many of the members think that Cedar Fair is an evil dynasty and think that this failure was somehow connected to the company. But then again, I guess I'm not really shocked. Robb, as I was reading that post that Kat made, the way she typed the first paragraph or two, it just told me that she wanted to type that in a certain way to make it sound like an innocent bystander. EDIT: I also saw that coming too Robb. She's now going to make up a bunch of excuses on why she can't refund the money such as not know how to do it. We all saw this coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRINCE DESMOND Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 FANATASTIC NEWS MY FRIENDS!!!!! THE REIN OF PRINCE DESMOND AS OWNER OF BIG DIPPING ROLLER COASTR SHALL START SOON!!!!! NOW TO PHONE CONTACT MR WOODSMAN !!!!! PRINCE DESMOND Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobrider Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Ah the saga continues and Ohioans look worse and worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OISU8P Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 At least Prince Desmond was honest. Quote of the day! No, this is the quote of the day.... Postby robbalvey » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:45 pm Katie wrote:Oh my god, you are bitching about 4 dollars Alvey? Give me a friggin break. Shut up fatass. Go eat another donut. And get yourself some mustache bleach while you're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) EDIT: ^ Remember, that was "CoastinKatie" that was the fat bitch who needs the mustache bleach not "Kat" of Kat & Kiwi who is the scam artist. Hooray! I'm happy to report that Kat found the "Issue a Refund" button and my donation was fully refunded to me. Everyone else can thank me later for pointing this out to her, because I guarantee had I not told her how to use PayPal, everyone else would have gotten less back than what they donated. This at least sets the precedent. Everyone who donated money and wants a full refund should get a full refund. I did. --Robb Edited January 11, 2011 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astroworldfan1 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I don't understand how they could proclaim that they were the legal owners of the coaster when in fact the deal hadn't be finalized; yet, Kat can't answer questions to do legal issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterFanatic Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 // Waiting for his $4.19 refund ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) // Waiting for his $4.19 refund ... LMAO! So you were the obnoxious bastard that the GLT people were complaining about over $4! Well played my friend...well played! --Robb "The Geauga Lake Today forums is a comedy of errors!" Alvey Edited January 11, 2011 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 I just used the money I got back from helping to Save the Big Dipper to buy this really awesome Domo Kun tissue box cover! A *MUCH* better investment than trying to save the Big Dipper! --Robb "I will use the tissue to wipe my tears the day the Dipper is demolished..." Alvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 ^^A worthy investment, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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