Alton Towers Discussion Thread

[GigaG]

Personally, i'm simply pleased to see a new, gimmick free coaster at my home park.

Except that it's totally gimmicky! 14 inversions? And presented in a way that's not new technology? That's totally a gimmick! Let me explain to you...

 

Three inversions on Outlaw Run = Innovative, unique, and new technology

Two normal Eurofighters bolted together to create 14 inversions = Gimmick

 

It's what the park needs.

I actually agree. But it's still gimmicky.

 

Thirteen was overhyped. Not this.

Well, compared to Thirteen, it would be impossible for anything to be overhyped as much. You're comparing a typically over-hyped coaster to the Burj Khalifa of over-hyped coasters.

 

I would say it's less over-hyped and more "deceiving" in that I really expected something a bit more unique and interesting to produce the 14 inversions rather than just two normal Euro-Fighters stuck together.

 

has the smiler been confirmed as "finished" yet? I wouldn't be too surprised if something was added to the section before the vert lift.

Please tell me that I just dreamed this being posted and one of our readers didn't actually just suggest something this stupid. It's not actually a real post, right? RIGHT?!?!? (please!)

 

Honestly, I don't think it would be even close to "2 Euro-Fighters bolted together" had it not had the vertical lift. It is missing the single-car trains and beyond-vertical drops, and each "half" seems to have more inversions than your typical Euro-Fighter. In my opinion, Smiler takes a much better approach to the "super-looper" genre than Colossus, because Smiler uses more unique inversions when it repeats and uses its repeats in a way that is practically a new element(like the double dive loop) and newly shaped elements (the interlocking cobra roll/batwing), while Colossus does 4 normal barrel rolls and other garden-variety inversions. Not to mention Smiler's bunny hops. However, I'm surprised that the Dare Devil Dive style restraints were not used. Maybe too much lateral movement to allow people to sway side to side, or trouble fitting them into a 4-abreast row? As for the 2 lift hills, they are unusual, but kind of necessary for two reasons - a break from the inversions and the height restrictions. The worst thing is that there was no "secret element" - the washing machine would be pretty cool, although very gimmicky. And this is coming from somebody who is typically an airtime fanatic!

[medoman]

sorry rob to cause such horrendous offence!

 

All im saying is nemesis sub terra opened before it was complete, smiler has faced delays in opening so its not beyond the realms of possibility that there is something more still to be added. There was a company involved with projection video mapping for the smiler that afaik hasn't appeared on the ride so far. Adding some sort of tunnel with various effects or video prokection while waiting for the lift doesn't seem like an impossibility to me

 

 

flame away if you must......

[robbalvey]

Honestly, I don't think it would be even close to "2 Euro-Fighters bolted together" had it not had the vertical lift. It is missing the single-car trains and beyond-vertical drops, and each "half" seems to have more inversions than your typical Euro-Fighter.

Ugh... stop taking my posts so god damn literally!!!!! It's f**cking annoying!!!

 

Of COURSE, if you wanted to technically break apart what I said, then yes, it's not really "two normal Euro-fighters stuck together"...

 

But it *IS* just two "multi-loopers" stuck together.

 

Roller coasters have been doing 7 inversions since 1988. 25 years ago! All I'm saying is that this ride, while very creatively put together, and most likely a hell of a lot of cheek grinning fun, is just two 7-looping coasters one after another. The Smiler could easily have been split into two different rides. Both would probably be great on their own, but just watch the POV - it's one coaster with a bunch of loops, hits the brakes, pauses for a moment, goes up the lift hill and does ANOTHER coaster with a bunch of loops.

 

It's annoying that people keep trying to "Prove Robb Alvey wrong" by breaking down every single f**king word I say and pulling out certain words to try and find fault with. Stop that. You're being obnoxious and completely dumb.

 

If you don't agree with me, that's fine. I could give two giant shits. But I'm not "wrong' in the theory that this ride is two multi-looping coasters stuck together rather than one unique, innovative ride that does 14 inversions.

 

--Robb

Edited June 5, 2013 by robbalvey

[shangalaing]

Im heading back over tomorrow, heard they have still had issues with new trains stalling on the batwing, when I was there they did seem to be going precariously slow when empty, I guess this is just a new ride bedding in.

 

On the plus side and besides the debate about the actual ride, there are no queues in the UK that are better to walk through and the ride is themed better than Altons recent additions.

 

This and Swarm are setting a new Merlin precedent?

[Alastair]

There was a company involved with projection video mapping for the smiler that afaik hasn't appeared on the ride so far.

 

The projection mapping featured in the indoor queueline section, and can be seen here:

 

 

Bit disappointing really given we were expecting it to feature in the ride, but it does look pretty cool in person.

[Dobba]

This is all because you didn't get the washing element isn't it?

 

Can we just have "Americans who wanted the ride to fail from the start don't like it now it's open" as a given and the people who have been on it can comment and everyone else can focus on woodies with loops or whatever it is that's passing as innovative over the pond this year?

[robbalvey]

This is all because you didn't get the washing element isn't it?

 

Can we just have "Americans who wanted the ride to fail from the start don't like it now it's open" as a given and the people who have been on it can comment and everyone else can focus on woodies with loops or whatever it is that's passing as innovative over the pond this year?

I really cannot stand people who turn things into an "Americans versus the rest of the world" argument. That's bullshit. And you're banned.

 

Goodbye.

 

--Robb

[GeorgeT]

Can we just have "Americans who wanted the ride to fail from the start don't like it now it's open" as a given and the people who have been on it can comment and everyone else can focus on woodies with loops or whatever it is that's passing as innovative over the pond this year?

 

Don`t forget about all the germans (like me) who wated it to fail from the beginning, too

 

Talking about failure : I hope you noticed how many times robb repeated that smiler would probably be a lot of fun and that it`s like putting two GREAT coasters together ???

[shangalaing]

Can we just have "Americans who wanted the ride to fail from the start don't like it now it's open" as a given and the people who have been on it can comment and everyone else can focus on woodies with loops or whatever it is that's passing as innovative over the pond this year?

 

Don`t forget about all the germans (like me) who wated it to fail from the beginning, too

 

Talking about failure : I hope you noticed how many times robb repeated that smiler would probably be a lot of fun and that it`s like putting two GREAT coasters together ???

 

Nail on the head! Robb is correct, it is two great coasters back to back, with the added bonus that they intertwine and interlock and duel. Maybe its the fact that it appears to be two multi loopers joined together that it doesnt seem like its trying for the inversion record. it doesn't just add two barrel rolls to the back end of a standard layout. Even without a launch or special elements, this is a damn unique coaster, one that I don't think we will see replicated or even one similar.

 

(edited: sMelling Pistake)

[robbalvey]

Talking about failure : I hope you noticed how many times robb repeated that smiler would probably be a lot of fun and that it`s like putting two GREAT coasters together ???

Yeah, exactly. No one seems to want focus on that fact that I did actually say the ride looks like a lot of fun, they just want to bitch at me and be obnoxious towards my comment how I don't think it's as technically advanced as I thought it would be.

 

I wasn't the one that started an argument. It was the dumb people.

[KevRus]

I notice someone say it's overhyped? Not getting it, sorry. If you're suggesting that any ride which has a marketing campaign is overhyped, then sorry - but you need to do some dictionary definitions. Thirteen was overhyped. Not this.

 

Nowhere did I say Smiler is over-hyped (misreading posts seems to be a recurring theme in this thread!) - just that I'm not a fan of Alton Towers' recent *need* to promote their additions in a strangely viral, mysterious, and gimmicky way, nor am I a fan of the recent string of psychological-horror themed coasters in the UK.

[simon8899]

^ This seems to be a Merlin thing. They marketed Krake at Heide-Park as "world first" - which was even true as it's smaller than all other Dive Machines...

[jamesissoocool]

I think I get the point going on here. While its an achievement having a 14 inversion coaster, it's not if you have it with a major slow down and restart section in the middle. Anyone can do that, what's to stop the next park to have a 21 inversion coaster with a third lift and another 7+ inversions, If it was all one lift that would be impressive and have a Constant pacing.

[MikeJtv]

I think it's unfair on the ride to suggest it's perhaps 'cheating' by having two lift hills and claiming the inversion record. Taking the restrictions Alton have, they've done a superb job in the space they had and The Smiler is probably the third best ride in the park now (Behind Nemesis and Oblivion for me). I've been on a lot of multi loopers and I've never felt quite as dizzy as I did when I hit the MCBR on The Smiler - the breather was actually a welcomed break in what is a pretty relentless ride.

 

This may have been a conscious decision, but it probably wasn't. We all know the issues the park face when trying to install something new.

 

The park aren't suggesting that the coaster is a technological breakthrough, and they're not promoting the dueling aspect at all (possibly because it doesn't duel 100% of the time), they're just promoting it for what it is - a 14 loop coaster. Having two lift hills may be a cheeky way of gaining the inversion record, but in the space they had it was all they really could do. It doesn't return to a station at the half way point, although I do understand the argument that you could just as well stick a station on the MCBR and yes it would just be a mobius (sometimes) dueling coaster.

 

Regardless of semantics, it's a pretty spectacular coaster to ride and observe. The way the supports and track have been squeezed into the area is impressive, and it's a solid addition to what I will agree has been a disappointing series of additions since 1998 (even if the coaster is a little rough during the second half of the second half!).

[AshleeKel]

I've done ERT sessions on Viper at Six Flags Magic Mountain where they only stop the train in the station, quickly check restraints, and then send us out again. I don't think our break was much longer than that. Can I count that as a 14-inversion coaster? Because it seems to me that's not much different than what The Smiler is doing.

 

Well, not really. It might have two lift hills (the reasons for this have already been explained) but going on it doesn't feel like two coasters in one as both parts of the circuit feel completely different (the second half being a lot better than the first).

 

Having two lift hills doesn't make it two rides glued together.

[JayTricky]

This is getting embarrassing. My fellow Brits, can you please not take it so personally when someone posts their opinion on The Smiler? It reeks of the same attitude I see on the Towers forums when someone has something bad to say about it.

 

Besides its not even a 'criticism'. More of an informed personal view that it isn't so impressive to break a world record whilst having two lift hills. Which is totally understandable.

 

I for one take the Smiler for what it is. A gimmicky, fun, insane looking, picture friendly multi-looper 'new gen' Eurofighter! (Takes deep breath). And I welcome it as a great addition to the Towers. Ground breaking? Not a chance. Chart topping? No way. Fun as hell and unique? Definitely!

[RollerCoasterSmi]

Sorry if this is coming across as backseat moderation but I think everyone just needs to calm down. I joined TPR because it was the most friendly, funny & intelligent forum that I had found on the internet where people can discuss and debate (NOT ARGUE) about roller coasters & theme parks. I know in the past I have posted stupid things (hence my title of DumbTums) but people are taking tiny details way too personally.

 

I find it ironic that a coaster called The Smiler has caused so much heated debate.

 

EDIT: ^ Agreed

[ernierocker]

This is really getting sad and pathetic that we have now have British trolls signing up because Robb isn't praising everything about their new coaster.

 

Guess what? This is Robb and Elissa's website. He stated his opinion, and already said it looks like it will be a fun coaster. If anyone else signs up, just to make one post with the sole purpose to try and contradict or flame Robb, then that account will be banned.

 

Also, thanks to our sensible British posters. We appreciate your support on this forum and like Robb said, you guys appear to have a fun coaster that I am sure people from around the world will enjoy. Even if it is a gimmicky mess of track.

[Poison Tom 96]

The Smiler is thankfully gimmick free. The fact it has two lifts is irrelevant, it still inverts 14 times.

 

However Nemesis is still the best on park. By far.

[GeorgeT]

The Smiler is thankfully gimmick free. The fact it has two lifts is irrelevant, it still inverts 14 times.

 

However Nemesis is still the best on park. By far.

 

Nooooo

 

It`s nothing new and to a certain grade "normal" that people tend to overhype or are not able to deal with criticism when it comes to coasters of their own country or homepark...but for me, this thread takes it to a whole new level, really

[JayTricky]

This is really getting sad and pathetic that we have now have British trolls signing up because Robb isn't praising everything about their new coaster.

 

Guess what? This is Robb and Elissa's website. He stated his opinion, and already said it looks like it will be a fun coaster. If anyone else signs up, just to make one post with the sole purpose to try and contradict or flame Robb, then that account will be banned.

 

Also, thanks to our sensible British posters. We appreciate your support on this forum and like Robb said, you guys appear to have a fun coaster that I am sure people from around the world will enjoy. Even if it is a gimmicky mess of track.

 

Top post, Sir.

 

Can't wait to ride this thing and just enjoy it. Gimmick or not. I feel lucky I live 45 mins away from Alton. Still a top park despite its flaws!

[stretchy]

OK my thoughts from someone who has rode this. I was there on the opening day for this coaster. Third row, third car of the day. I was also there 2 days later and am also British.

 

What is the ride like? That depends. I have ridden it 4 times over 2 days and got extremely different experiences.

• As smooth as a B&M and really fun
• Rough with some vibration, still fun though
• Extremely Rough and unpleasant to ride, on par with Saw
• About the same as ride 2

 

Visually it is possibly one of the most enjoyable coasters to queue up for. I have been to the majority of the large US parks and a couple of the European parks and don't remember a coaster being having this much interaction with the queue. There seems to be a car permanently flying somewhere around you and they are so close you feel you can reach out and hi-five the people on the ride.

 

Does it beat Nemesis? Not in my eyes but it is one hell of a good ride and fun when running smoothly.

 

Is it innovative? Well Gerstlauer engineers have said that this is a prototype. Gerstlauer engineers have also said that it isn't a Euro-fighter. But to be honest I feel this is more an evolutionary take on the Euro-fighter than a revolutionary take on it.

 

Gimmicks - Unfortunately in the UK at the moment, the Gimmick rules. Shows such as "Britain's got talent" and "The only way is Essex" lead popular TV (something that I personally detest). UK theme parks along with most other UK entertainment has spent the past 15 or so years stuck in this search for the next Gimmick. My main problem with Oblivion is that it is a Gimmick, a one trick pony. Same with Rita and 13. But the thing is, out of these Gimmicks, come better newer rides. Oblivion was a prototype Dive machine. Air was a prototype Flier. These prototypes have to be imagined and created somewhere and whilst I admit, the rides that followed them were better, faster, taller, more extreme rides and whilst I may not personally think that they are the best rides, I respect Air and Oblivion and 13 for being prototypes.

 

Is it 2 rides stuck together. Rob said this in semi jest, but this has been brought up before, which is why people responded with the pre-discussed conclusions. When getting to the 2nd lift hill adds to the experience and is a welcome breather and actually adds to the cohesiveness of the ride. It doesn't feel to me, when riding, that it is 2 coasters joined together, it feels intended and the breather arrives at the correct time. Unlike Nemesis where you feel that the ride doesn't really start till you leave the lift hill, with this, both lift hills actually feel part of the ride, probably because they are reasonably quick and silent.

 

Whilst Alton say the duelling is purely coincidental, I am sure the designer (JW) knew what he was doing with it, he did say a couple of times that he always wanted to do some kind of Duelling Coaster, and visually it is wonderful. I don't think it matters how fast or slow they despatch, somewhere along the track it seems to duel, and that looks more designed to me than accidental.

 

All in all I feel that this is a good ride for Alton, and at last a ride that isn't over in a few seconds, but actually feels like a meaty ride. All of the loops are real loops with good G's and feel part of the ride, I am always disappointed with the end barrel rolls on rides like Colossus, they feel tacked on just to get the loop count up.

 

A comment on the bickering that has been going on. I personally felt quite offended by it all. The odd thing is that because half of the argument has obviously been removed, it reads that the only person who is being rude, nasty and xenophobic is Rob as only his reactions are shown, the rest seem to have been moderated out leaving a one sided and quite offensive rant, I am sure as a moderator you should rise above bickering and argument and not have to resort to what feels like name calling.

Edited June 6, 2013 by stretchy

[BeemerBoy]

I'm gonna be fair about the whole thing. I hate you all...and the coaster, just because there's no physical washing machine involved.

[ernierocker]

 

A comment on the bickering that has been going on. I personally felt quite offended by it all. The odd thing is that because half of the argument has obviously been removed, it reads that the only person who is being rude, nasty and xenophobic is Rob as only his reactions are shown, the rest seem to have been moderated out leaving a one sided and quite offensive rant, I am sure as a moderator you should rise above bickering and argument and not have to resort to what feels like name calling.

 

Only 2 posts have been deleted and that is because they were obvious troll attempts that have no place on TPR. We will not continue to have this discussion. Let's keep the discussion on Smiler and anything else going on at Alton Towers. This is not "British posters sign up to complain that Robb was mean" time.

 

We welcome all new members to our forum. You are welcome to join our community and to present your opinion. However, those that are only signing up to complain about Robb will be banned. We don't need you in our community. And I think everyone (including our British members) can agree to that.

[robbalvey]

Wow. I asked to the Brits to show us that they have "smarter" posters out there and all they have proved in the last 24 hours is that they are dumber.

 

Like Eric said above, we have banned the obvious troll accounts, and we quite simply will not tolerate obnoxious and rude comments from anyone.

 

If you want to register for TPR simply to troll us, knock yourself out. All you're doing is showing that you're dumb, and you'll be immediately banned.

 

Oh, and kudos to this Brit who appears to be the smartest of you lot:

I think I get the point going on here. While its an achievement having a 14 inversion coaster, it's not if you have it with a major slow down and restart section in the middle. Anyone can do that, what's to stop the next park to have a 21 inversion coaster with a third lift and another 7+ inversions, If it was all one lift that would be impressive and have a Constant pacing.

 

Thank you for actually "getting" what we were talking about.

 

I never said the ride didn't look like a hell of a lot of fun.

 

--Robb

Edited June 6, 2013 by robbalvey