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Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread


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Although I have never been on Voyage, it's sad to see it in the state it's in. IMO, Gravity Group has failed in maintaining the coaster.

 

The ride really isn't in a sad state. The park has replaced more track than any previous year and many people who have rode it this year have stated that it's running in top notch form. Robb and others have simply stated the ride really isn't their type of ride. The second half of the ride is very aggressive and was designed to be that way. While the park is in charge of maintaining the coaster, I do agree that The Gravity Group has dropped the ball several times. The steel structure would supposedly help the park delay major track work.. hundreds of feet of track was replaced after one year of operation. They couldn't deliver trains that were supposedly designed with The Voyage in mind. Now to be fair, TGG did redesign the turnaround going into the first 90 degree turn in the spaghetti bowl and it has held up really good ever since then. Now I can't speak for this season yet, but I've yet to read any complaints about it.

 

As for the ride as it sits today. I would venture out to say that all the money they have spent to maintain the ride has been worth it. All the awards and accolades have made the ride extremely marketable and the ride is still extremely marketable as it sits. Now, I do believe a more permanent solution for The Voyage is in the ride's future. The park would be crazy not to notice what RMC has been doing and how their track technology is saving parks a ton of money, and creating a better ride experience for those parks guests. The layout of the ride doesn't even need to change. A full topper track retrofit with RMC trains would do the trick. This would still allow the park to market the ride as a wooden coaster. Now I wouldn't be against RMC tightening up some of the airtime hills to get more extreme airtime.

Edited by ZeroGravity55
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Anybody planning on being at the park on June 11&12? My hubby and I are gonna be there those days. I haven't been since summer 2011 so I haven't been able to ride Mammoth and newer rides. Any advice on lines for Mammoth? I remember we waited awhile for Wildebeest that summer but was worth it so I'm thinking Mammoth will be better.

It's been great hearing about Thunderbird. Out of both sides which is the better of the two?

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On my first ever visit to Holiday World back in 2012 for Holiwood Nights, I chose to ride each coaster oldest to newest. Raven was easily enjoyable for all the reasons Robb stated. Legend absolutely blew my mind and became my favorite in the entire park, despite how much bracing was required to handle its intense laterals. Voyage left me exhausted after each ride, leaving me to only enjoy it 5 times on the fist night, compared to the 13 on Legend. The next year I got to ride Voyage, after they did the retracking in the spaghetti bowl, was when it became my favorite in the entire park.

 

I don't think I can handle the thought of changing Voyage. I am a Voyage fanboy and i admit it. I have never had a ride actually make me drool on myself though and for that alone it put it as my #1. I have no where near the amount of experience riding as a lot on here. I really need to get out and try El Toro. Voyage was hyped to me and it was better than expected so El Toro with how much it has been hyped should be great when i get to it as well.

Agreed, I never want Voyage to change. Legend on the other hand....

I think Legend would be a far better candidate for a VERY twisty RMC makeover given its current layout, location, and topography!

Edited by Midgetman82
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^^ We did Mammoth and Wildebeest first thing at the water park when we got there (around noon) and lines weren't too bad - perhaps 20 minutes for Mammoth and 15 for Wildebeest.

 

I was thinking that we were at the park around late June time frame two years ago on a Thursday and crowds weren't bad at all. The coasters & rides were pretty much all a walk-on, although it was dreadfully hot that day so everyone was at the water park.

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I would venture out to say that all the money they have spent to maintain the ride has been worth it.

I'm not sure I can agree with this statement. I don't feel that a park *should* have to spend that much money on a ride that isn't even ten years old yet just to keep in running in a state that doesn't actually injure people. (or at least leave them with a splitting headache.)

 

I would be very curious to know what guest reaction is to the ride. I have to imagine that if even we as "enthusiasts" are fairly split on the love/hate opinions we have with the ride, the general public, who aren't as used to rides must feel the same way. And if that's the case, does it make sense to operate a ride that alienates any percentage of your guest population?

 

I've been on a *LOT* of coasters. A lot of really bad ones and a lot of really good ones. I will just simply never understand how so many people can like this coaster this much.

Edited by robbalvey
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I must be an oddball because I've always found Legend to be rougher than Voyage. I'm relating "roughness" to the feeling of bouncing across the track and "hexagonal" feeling turns. Voyage feels more like it's going to throw the train off the track but that's what happens when you have 25 seconds of airtime over the course of a 2 minute ride. In my opinion, Voyage glides better than Legend

 

Couldn't agree more. Legend has always left me feeling more shaken than Voyage. I've never found Voyage painful. Intense, sure. That's why I love it. Legend has always left me with a slight headache, whereas Voyage has always just left me out of breath.

 

It's interesting how this ride can have such polarizing experiences for people.

 

This is EXACTLY how the ride is for me. The Voyage is just a really really long intense and relentless ride. It's supposed to be that way! The Legend really bangs me around as well but it's not crazy rough where I need to complain or rush to the hospital. My issues with the woodies Thursday was not because of the rides themselves but because of still recovering from the stroke. The two are very different rides with different experiences and feelings to them.... And I'm sure it was intentional. That's what makes Thunderbird such a good fit for the park! It was something they were missing and now they really have a coaster for everyone. 4 unique coaster rides for 4 different types of coaster lovers.

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A couple other things. The general population around here LOVES The Voyage. I rarely hear complaints about it and when I do it's from people who don't like wooden coasters anyway. Also I remember on the behind the scenes tour Thursday someone brought up the Timberliners. Our guide said the park actually still owns and is in possession of one full train of Timberliners.... The working prototype. He said even though it was tested and ran on The Voyage track, that it wasn't a safe and good working fit for a ride as long an intense as The Voyage. So, I guess in the future HW COULD build another coaster that would make use of the one Timberliner train they still own. If they still own it I would guess it's for good reason. I don't thing the relationship with the GG is as strained as a lot of people on here make it think. They talked very highly of their ability to come back year after year to do new site surveys and do track repairs and adjustments based on their new site surveys.

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I would venture out to say that all the money they have spent to maintain the ride has been worth it.

I'm not sure I can agree with this statement. I don't feel that a park *should* have to spend that much money on a ride that isn't even ten years old yet just to keep in running in a state that doesn't actually injure people. (or at least leave them with a splitting headache.)

 

I would be very curious to know what guest reaction is to the ride. I have to imagine that if even we as "enthusiasts" are fairly split on the love/hate opinions we have with the ride, the general public, who aren't as used to rides must feel the same way. And if that's the case, does it make sense to operate a ride that alienates any percentage of your guest population?

 

I've been on a *LOT* of coasters. A lot of really bad ones and a lot of really good ones. I will just simply never understand how so many people can like this coaster this much.

 

My partner has been on a quite a few coasters at 71 years old and he said that this was by far the worst experience he has ever had on a coaster (even worse than SOB). This one really shook him up bad.

 

Granted we know that as you age, your body can't handle that much intensity and we realize that there are warning signs about age, body condition, blood pressure etc, etc...but he has survived all without coming off like he needed an MRI or a trip to the ER.

 

Due to this being the first coaster we rode while at the park, he sat out the other two coasters as a result of him being so rattled by his experience. After riding Legend, I told him that he didn't miss anything there as I was also shook up on that one.

 

Raven definitely stole the show as best coaster and despite the fact that I told him that it wasn't as jostling as the other one's, he still wouldn't ride it. He was simply done by his one experience on Voyage...and I wasn't a fan of it either.

 

This coaster needs major help, but I am sure that HW already knows & understands that. We both loved the park and would return, but would most likely skip the wooden coasters and just hit the water park and Thunderbird.

Edited by Philrad71
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I would be very curious to know what guest reaction is to the ride. I have to imagine that if even we as "enthusiasts" are fairly split on the love/hate opinions we have with the ride, the general public, who aren't as used to rides must feel the same way. And if that's the case, does it make sense to operate a ride that alienates any percentage of your guest population?

 

I've been with plenty of friends that I would consider "general public" that love the ride. My dad is far from an enthusiast and he loves it. I've talked a ton of GP in line who love it. I've also talked to GP who think it's too rough. It just varies from person to person. I'll never understand how people hate the ride, but hey... they have three other great coasters for those people.

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My dad rode it for the first time at Holiwood Nights last year. He says it's one of his favorites, even though he had to stop riding after a few rides because he thought he broke a rib. I then went ahead and rode it 26 times in a row.

 

It is a vicious ride, and that's one of the things I love about it. Not to mention the airtime. But I can see why it's too much for some people, even the most seasoned riders. It is by far the most intense wooden coaster I've ever been on.

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IMO, Gravity Group has failed in maintaining the coaster. They were never able to get the Timberliners to work, and now because they are keeping the awful, clunky PTCs, the intensity of the coaster is compromised with the full brakes.

 

1. Gravity Group gave up the keys to The Voyage back in 2006. It opened to rave reviews and ran well for several seasons. About five years into operation, complains became a little more common about roughness. Interestingly, wood coaster manufacturers give their coasters about a five year window before track work becomes a regular need. Gravity Group may come to the park once a year or every few years to run some tests and give feedback, BUT all of those results become "suggestions" to the park. I have went through the results of this testing procedure for the Gravity Group coaster in my park of employment, and the results are full of precise suggestions on what kind of adjustments to make. It is up to Holiday World regarding how much money and resources they want to invest in re-tracking, and which parts they want to adjust.

 

2. Holiday World does a fantastic job with The Voyage. Hands Down.

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It's honestly just one of those "depends on the person" type things. I always see non-enthusiast Guests loving the ride. The enthusiast community will rant and rave about how amazing Maverick at CP is (which after my first ride on it last year at CoasterMania, I agree with them), but my mom, who is 43 and loves the Voyage, hated Maverick. During the following fifteen minutes, she developed a horrible headache that then made her nauseous, and upon exiting the ride, her eyes were watering because it hurt her so bad in terms of her head getting slammed into each curve. Many may chalk it up to the fact that she didn't know the ride or how to brace for each turn, but maybe the same could apply to some enthusiasts and the Voyage.

 

I agree with the other's who have said that the Legend beats them up more than the Voyage. For me, the Legend hurts me more than the Boss at SFSL. Just a "everybody's different" kind of thing I guess.

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I thought I'd add my two cents about this discussion...

 

The best way to describe the Voyage for me is a "workout." It can rigorous, intense, relentless, unforgiving, etc... Since Holiday World is my home park, I obviously visit here the most. I have become jaded to its intensity and accept the ride for what it is. I have ridden the Voyage more times than I have any other coaster (although my Thunderbird count is creeping up) so you could say that my brain has been smashed to smithereens from the ride. I still rode it anyway. In fact, I had yet to ride a better wooden roller coaster for many years... until this spring at Silved Dollar City. Outlaw Run provided everything I could ask for in a wood coaster without beating me senseless. I could take on Outlaw Run non-stop given the opportunity. I could maybe marathon Voyage 5-6ish times before having to take a break. Outlaw Run, even after two years, still ran wonderfully and is much less of a maintenance hassle from what I understand. The topper track there seems to be doing that ride wonders. So, I fully support reprofiling the roughest sections of the ride with topper track, that being the turnaround and certain parts of the spaghetti bowl. That being said, The Voyage is running excellent currently and the best start of the season condition I can think of since opening year. Of course, that won't be the case in a few months, but still.

 

I am in support of whatever Holiday World decides to do with the Voyage. Whether they stick with its "pure" form or add some sort of topper track to the ride, either version of the Voyage is great to me. While it may not be my number 1 wood coaster for now, I still really like the Voyage even in its current form. However, I definitely wouldn't mind a topper track reprofiling.

 

By the way, Raven and Legend are running excellently as well this year. I'm glad to see those two get some love on here.

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Well, all I can say is I'm stoked to finally ride Voyage, and I got a bit of a masochist in me...I kind of like being beat up on a wooden coaster

Though I do think "traditional" woodens should probably be kept limited in size. Woodens, by the logical fact they are made from wood which moves and breathes and doesn't hold up like steel, seem naturally prone to become rougher, need tons of maintenance, and ultimately re tracking (and now getting topper track). So the super huge woodens like Voyage, guess it makes sense they will become pain machines! But hey, I still hear tons of love for it so I'm excited. As it was said, everyone's different.

 

Also excited to try Raven and Legend, glad both are running well this year!

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Legend has always left me feeling more shaken than Voyage. I've never found Voyage painful. Intense, sure. That's why I love it. Legend has always left me with a slight headache, whereas Voyage has always just left me out of breath.

I agree that Legend was not running well at all the last time I rode it (it had been a few years), but I was pleasantly surprised to find it running quite well last week. In fact, I actually took two rides on it! One in the front, and one in the back. I enjoyed both very much!

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I rode Legend on Sunday and it was great. Didn't see it coming.

Expected a dud and was pleasantly surprised. I am really curious about the financials on Thunderbird. From what I remember XFlight was about 12 million and Thunderbird was 22. I totally love having a B and M

launch coaster near by and Thunderbird is unique in multiple

ways over other winged coasters nearby. Which is why I think it is my favorite. Is the launch aspect of it really an additional 10 million dollars? When they post an investment cost what all does the park include? Thanks!

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Honestly, I haven't ridden it in the last 3 visits. My family and I just don't enjoy it. Why ruin a perfectly good day by having a splitting headache for the majority of it. I ride rollercoasters to have fun. And that ride just isn't fun for me. And way back in 07' when I rode it the first time, it really wasn't what I would call great. I would love to see it get the Iron Horse treatment. I've only ridden two Rocky Mountain conversions, but both Texas Giant and Rattler went from Meh, and Painful to OMFGAmazeballs and OMFGAmazeballs! So I'm all for it.

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A couple other things. The general population around here LOVES The Voyage. I rarely hear complaints about it and when I do it's from people who don't like wooden coasters anyway. Also I remember on the behind the scenes tour Thursday someone brought up the Timberliners. Our guide said the park actually still owns and is in possession of one full train of Timberliners.... The working prototype. He said even though it was tested and ran on The Voyage track, that it wasn't a safe and good working fit for a ride as long an intense as The Voyage. So, I guess in the future HW COULD build another coaster that would make use of the one Timberliner train they still own. If they still own it I would guess it's for good reason. I don't thing the relationship with the GG is as strained as a lot of people on here make it think. They talked very highly of their ability to come back year after year to do new site surveys and do track repairs and adjustments based on their new site surveys.

 

It's very interesting to hear that Holiday World still has a full Timberliner train in its possession. While I'm confident we will never see Timberliners on the Voyage, I would love to see a Gravity Group junior woodie (i.e. Wooden Warrior) built at Holiday World in the future, something to bridge the gap between the Howler and the Raven.

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I stumbled across this documentary by accident of YouTube. Its from 2005 about the building of El Toro, The Voyage, and Kentucky Rumbler. I found it to be extremely interesting and a great throwback after seeing Thunderbird built at HW. They really go in depth about the engineering and construction process of Voyage, definitely more so than the other two. You can also see how the layout changed slightly from the original plans during the design-build process.

[youtu_be]https://youtu.be/8t8j955Psfo[/youtu_be]

Thanks for posting this, very informative. I had no idea the owner of Beech Bend risked his entire life savings to build Kentucky Rumbler, glad the risk paid off.

 

It also felt like they kept taking small shots at El Toro, even tho IMO it's more of a wooden coaster than The Voyage. I think the way Intamin pre-fabs are constructed is amazing. Like a giant erector set or kinex.

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Anyone know the approximate cost of topper track's top layer replacement? Has Tremors done a refurbishment after 5 years of using topper track?

 

Tremors hasn't had any need of replacement or refurbishment. It's still the smoothest part of the ride by far.

I remember reading somewhere that Topper track's top layer needs to be changed every 5 years, that's even better to know! Seems like Topper track is even stronger than RMC expected!

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Honestly, I haven't ridden it in the last 3 visits. My family and I just don't enjoy it. Why ruin a perfectly good day by having a splitting headache for the majority of it. I ride rollercoasters to have fun. And that ride just isn't fun for me. And way back in 07' when I rode it the first time, it really wasn't what I would call great. I would love to see it get the Iron Horse treatment. I've only ridden two Rocky Mountain conversions, but both Texas Giant and Rattler went from Meh, and Painful to OMFGAmazeballs and OMFGAmazeballs! So I'm all for it.

 

Though to be fair, Rattler was one of the most reviled woodens out there!

I just need one day of rides, then they can RMC it. If it rattles my bones loose and ruptures a few organs well hey, what have they done for me lately?

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The ride is quick, snappy, fast-paced and never lets up! For me, I’d rather have a ride that leaves you wanting more rather than one you want to have end sooner.

 

So true. I feel when I ride The Voyage, I pray it to end the last 1/3 of the ride.

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