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Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread


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"Nearly a decade ago, the late Will Koch began talks with Bolliger & Mabillard (B&M) as part of his search for Holiday World’s first major steel roller coaster. B&M specializes in the delivery of custom-designed roller coasters, and Will knew this highly-regarded group of Swiss engineers would design a steel coaster like none other for his park. Continuing the park’s tradition of designing roller coaster thrills around Holiday World’s thickly wooded hills, B&M delivered a one-of-a-kind design for its first launched coaster and the nation’s first launched wing coaster, Thunderbird."

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For a 125 foot loop to be considered bland shows some folks have gotten jaded.

 

When I first started riding coasters the record height for a lift hill was about that tall. And some of the best modern coasters are shorter than this ...

 

Lightning Run at Kentucky Kingdom is a world class ride at about 100 feet, it shows that a ride doesn't have to be super tall to be well designed. There's a number of 200 foot plus coasters that are not that spectacular despite their "goliath" size (at SFMM). Does anyone like Mean Streak more than Raven?

 

I think the fact that it's a modern day B&M 125ft loop that may lead some to believe it will be bland. More then likely it won't pin you in your seat like the loops on the Batman clones and you won't have any hangtime like say on YOLO because of the OSTRs.

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Intrasys will be supplying the launch.

 

B&M delivered a one-of-a-kind design for its first launched coaster and the nation’s first launched wing coaster, Thunderbird."

 

This is where we are confused. One implies that this is a launch coming from B&M and the other implies it is a different company supplying the launch.

 

I think the fact that it's a modern day B&M 125ft loop that may lead some to believe it will be bland. More then likely it won't pin you in your seat like the loops on the Batman clones and you won't have any hangtime like say on YOLO because of the OSTRs.

 

I don't think this layout is bland at all. How many coasters launch straight into a reverse immelmann? The vertical loop is actually unique to the wing coaster concept as it is only the second wing coaster to have one. None of the other wing coasters have over-banked turns, which I think actually fits the this wing rider concept quite well. Yes the zero-g roll and inline twist are kind of bland. It wouldn't be a wing rider without the near miss elements, and this thing stays pretty close to the terrain. I've said this before, but I really hope the animation is correct on how fast this thing is going through the course. Watching the other wing riders, they tend to die out as they go through a lot the elements due to the weight of the trains. With this thing only having 5 cars per train, I think it is actually going to improve the ride experience. Thunderbird doesn't seem to really die out until inline twist at the end. It actually looks like there is going to be a little pop of air from the jerk the train take on that s-curve. At the end of the day, is this thing going to provide the forces any of us are looking for? No. Now I do think it will grasp the wing rider concept better than the other wing riders out there? I hope so.

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So as someone who hasn't been on a wing rider yet (Gatekeeper was down on our last CP trip sadly) I can't help but think people are crazy to complain about inline twists and zero G roles. The COG isn't where the riders are! Surely that's intense as hell, at any speed!

 

Also, I'm now curious about the B&M contracting as well. I read somewhere that Werner Stengel has designed some B&M coasters, and I was led to believe that he designed it and B&M produced it. This makes me think B&M designs and produces their own stuff, but also sometimes contracts out depending on the park, country, and timetable they have. It's been a few years since I last spoke with Walter or Claude, I wonder if I'll have a chance to see them soon and bring it up.

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My guess is coaster construction works just like any other Design-Build construction job. You have the owner (holiday world) hiring a design-build general contractor (B&M) who then hires subcontractors (steel fabricators, launch systems, concrete work, ground work, etc etc). B&M is solely responsible for designing and overseeing the construction of the coaster. The subcontractors are doing their tasks exactly to the specifications of B&M, and when they are hired, they are "absorbed", so to speak, into B&M for the duration of the project. They essentially become B&M. They will have oversight inspectors at the fabrication plants (whether it be steel or the launch system) and on-site acting a representatives of the company and ensuring the project is being carried out exactly to B&M's specifications. In the end, I don't think one should fret about the launch system being produced by a subcontractor. B&M specified and designed how they wanted to work, and they just hired a "laborer" to produce it.

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The Beast.

 

Just way too rough to enjoy, kept fearing for my spine. I will say the terrain it sits amongst is amazing as well as knowing you're riding a piece of history. Also shout out to the uniquely slow lift on the first hill, really gives you a chance to enjoy the scenery.

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The Beast.

 

Just way too rough to enjoy, kept fearing for my spine. I will say the terrain it sits amongst is amazing as well as knowing you're riding a piece of history. Also shout out to the uniquely slow lift on the first hill, really gives you a chance to enjoy the scenery.

 

???

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Looking at Intrasys website (they're German), they specialize in anything linear drive engineering (obviously). These guys design this kind of technology and build it. I'm guessing that B&M gave them the track design and where the fins that will go through the LSM's on the trains will be located, then asked them to design and build a launch for this coaster. Quite frankly, this sounds like B&M. It would probably be more reliable for them to outsource this type of thing to a company that actually specializes in linear drive engineering. I would go ahead and say that this would still be the first true B&M launch, as it seems that B&M outsourced this project opposed to HW having to find someone to do the launch on their own much like Universal did. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if other coaster manufacturers (Intamin, Mack, Premier, and ext.) outsource their linear drive technology on their coasters to companies that specialize in it as well. We just never hear about it because the parks that build these rides are never cool enough to hold Q&A's with us coaster enthusiasts and tell us that information. Okay, that may have been a bit biased, buy you get my point.

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^You might be right. When I hear intamin or mack is doing an LSM coaster I don't imagine them building the motors themselves in-house but something more like what you were saying B&M is probably doing. It would require a few workers of the company to be specialized in induction motors and a way to build them.

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Then why is it being supplied by Intrasys?

 

Intrasys supplies most of the different manufacturers launch components (Mack, Intamin, Gerstlauer, Premier etc..), it's nothing unique to this installation.

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The Beast.

 

Just way too rough to enjoy, kept fearing for my spine. I will say the terrain it sits amongst is amazing as well as knowing you're riding a piece of history. Also shout out to the uniquely slow lift on the first hill, really gives you a chance to enjoy the scenery.

Wrong thread. Lol.

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Then why is it being supplied by Intrasys?

 

Intrasys supplies most of the different manufacturers launch components (Mack, Intamin, Gerstlauer, Premier etc..), it's nothing unique to this installation.

 

And that puts an end to this discussion. Still is the first true B&M launch.

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I've noticed that LSM launches never seem to exceed around 75 mph. Is this because it no longer becomes efficient to launch a train beyond those speeds, a matter of cost or simply because it isn't quite possible yet?

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Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if other coaster manufacturers (Intamin, Mack, Premier, and ext.) outsource their linear drive technology on their coasters to companies that specialize in it as well.

You are correct. This is commonplace throughout the entire engineering community, whether it's the aero, automotive, or amusement industry. For example, there are over 50 different top tier suppliers that provide various systems and components for Boeing's 787. Likewise in the automotive industry where you'll find only 2-3 top transmission manufacturers supplying transmissions to 90% automotive manufacturers (ZF, Getrag, Xtrac... a good example is the BMW 3-series shares the same 8-speed ZF automatic gearbox as the Jaguar F-Type.) And similarly, B&M outsources all their electrical control systems to Consign AG. It's rare to find an ride manufacturer that does everything in-house from engineering to manufacturing; S&S being one of the exceptions.

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Stopping by briefly to check the thread before going back to the studio and I've not had time to go through all the recent posts but B&M outsourcing the LSM to Intrasys is the same as B&M outsourcing steel fab to Clermont Steel. It's still B&M's design...but someone has to actually put the thing together. Who better than a company that specializes in such components.

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