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Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread


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20 million in expansion costs would not surprise me one bit at all. I think people are under estimating HW and the Koch family in general... Especially when it comes to resources. They don't watch what the spend because they HAVE to, they do it because it's good business sense most of the time.

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I'm going to chime in on Holiday World not spending so much for such a small park. Lagoon's biggest purchase was wicked at $10 million in 2007. They barely get a million a year since then, as their attendance has gone down since Wicked's initial opening. They are building a completely unique coaster that they are manufacturing themselves which will be the biggest expense they have ever done. The ballpark price is anywhere from $13 to $18 million. It could even be $20 million which is double what they just spent 8 years before the opening of the ride. I highly believe that if Lagoon can pull off what they are pulling off right now, Holiday World could easily pour tons of money on a B&M prototype with no problems.

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I'm not sure why HW's budgetary limitations are such a pressing concern. It's clear they're building a rather large coaster, and it seems likely it'll be a B&M, so clearly they had the funds for it. What more is there to say? If they didn't think it was a smart investment they wouldn't make it.

 

an S&S launch coaster.

 

Really?

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Didn't Kentucky Kingdom afford a large B&M? Didn't Hard Rock Park?

 

Didn't both parks eventually go out of business?

 

The problem here is when you think of HW, you think of it being family owned, and you think of all the free stuff they offer(free soft-drinks, free sunscreen,free parking, and free inner tubes). That is why people have a hard time understanding how they can have enough money to build a B&M. That is all part of a plan that is actually MAKING them money. Here's a great story of Will Koch explaining why offering free soft-drinks has been successful for the park.

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The thing about those "freebies" though is they aren't really free. They are just included in your admission price.

 

And while things could have obviously changed since the ownership lawsuit, wasn't Dan Koch quoted a couple of years ago as saying when Holiday World built it's steel coaster it would be in the $20 million range?

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^ Yes they are, but not enough where you would ever think about it if you were looking at it from a far. I don't think anybody is complaining, as the the little extra they're charging you is still a lot cheaper than almost every park out there. I believe HW has never charged for parking, so that isn't even on the admission. I don't even think they upped the price when they started giving out free-sunscreen, though I could be wrong. When it comes to the soft-drinks, you're really only paying for one drink, then you basically get free re-fills. They took a common food industry practice and applied it to their park and it has worked. They can advertise as free, because you never really physically pay for a drink in the park and they don't have to tell their guests it is included on their admission price.

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I have to say I am surprised if this turns out to be a B&M. I didn't think it would be fit the budget for the reasons that others have posted above. Or what B&M could fit under that budget would be fairly small and short. NOW, assuming that steel is a major component of the cost (as it should be), maybe if the design is a very low to the ground, terrain hugging ride, you could probably get some decent length out of it. we shall see.

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Catch me up to speed...when did holiday world come out and tell anyone what their budget is? A lot of you are clamoring about how such and such would be over their budget. What is said budget? This tread is stock full of CRCA's (certified roller coaster accountants) hahahaha...

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All we know for sure is it will be their biggest investment since Thanksgiving ( 13.5 Million) was added. They could have 50 million, none of us know for sure, so nothing is out of question. I for one don't care if it is a B&M, Intamin or Mack, I know it will be a great addition. Before everyone jumps me about 50 Million it's just me saying, not 1 of us ( except Raven Maven) know HOW much they have.

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What I want to know is whats wrong with B&Ms coasters. I don't know how theyre not intense. Just because you don't get the crap beat out of you doesn't mean theyre not intense. Of the 33 coaster B&M has built in the past 10 years, 17 have been built in the US (this not including the 4 that were moved from from park to park). I have ridden 10 of those 17 and didn't have a single problem with any of them. And if anything, I believe some are of the best coasters out there and are very under rated, and I'm pretty sure many would agree with that.

-Banshee

-Gatekeeper

-X-Flight

-Leviathan

-Wild Eagle

-Intimidator

-Manta

-Diamondback

-Behemoth

-Griffon

-Tatsu

-Goliath

-Goliath

-Patriot

-Sheikra

-Hydra

-Silver Bullet

Can anybody here really tell me whats wrong with any of these coasters?

 

If HW were to get ANYTHING like the 17 listed above, I would be absolutely fine with that, but thats why I'm so excited, because if it is a B&M, which I'm sure it is, it will top all of these.

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I think the Dive Machines (e.g., Sheikra and Griffon) are one of the best concepts B&M has developed. But I think where people are coming from is that when you compare old B&M rides, such as Nemesis, Kumba, and Montu, to newer ones, such as Intimidator and Silver Bullet, the newer rides lack something. They've become "old hat."

 

But many riders are hailing Banshee as a "return" to form for B&M, and I'm looking forward to finding out for myself. For me, they're batting .500 when it comes to Wing coasters--I like Wild Eagle, but don't care for Gatekeeper (will find out about x Flight in a few weeks). I like quite a few of the other rides you've listed (such as Diamondback), but they're just not "top ten" material for me.

 

As for Holiday World, I'm looking forward to seeing what they have planned.

Edited by cfc
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Another thing I think people forget too is, a coaster company is somewhat limited to what they can do. They have to go by what the BUYER wants, not the GP. They can only implement so much of what they are capable with the area at hand and the buyers wishes. I think with the way B&M does things, they are slightly held back by this. But in this case, I believe HW has said to B&M, that is as long as this is a B&M, do what you want and go all out.

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But in this case, I believe HW has said to B&M, that is as long as this is a B&M, do what you want and go all out.

 

If this is anything like Voyage, the park would have taken input from enthusiasts to B&M (and likely other manufacturers) and asked for their best implementation given a roughly mapped out ride footprint.

 

Edit:^I asked Paula a couple days ago about the cam and she said it is going up soon, as in, before the announcement.

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Lots of ASSumptions going on in here lately. Lord knows I like to make them myself from time to time, but when you start second guessing the park's financial security I think it's gone a bit too far. They've got enough money to pay for whatever they've bought, obviously.

 

And again with the ASSumptions that if its a B&M, it will be lackluster. Of all the customers to assume this on, HW is last.

 

The 24th can't come soon enough. Anyone planning on getting more construction pics soon? Clearly we need something else to distract us.

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I love speculation threads! I also love Holiday World. The two combined....bliss...

 

I am fairly confident, that whatever they get - will be very, very good. I am completely confident, that they can afford to get whatever they want and that they won't "skimp" on this.

 

Voyage is freaking awesome and was truly groundbreaking when it was built. HW has worked dilligently to keep it from beating the crap out of you, even gone as far as to try for prototype trains (timberliners) to help with maintenance.

 

Pilgrims Plunge - was truly an interesting and fun ride. The lift was terrifying and the drop was fun. I never saw it not working, but obviously there were issues. Still - they purchased and installed a fun ride.

 

I know so very little about footers and their coorelation with particular coaster companies - and I really just don't have time to research it; so I am thankful to those of you who have done it for me . If this is truly a B&M - good for them! I'd love for it to be a return to the Kumba days (as that is one of my absolute favorite rides anywhere,) but I think the newer style - really fun but less intense - would suit Holiday World better. Either way - they won't let us down.

 

Thanks Paula for driving us wierd coaster people crazy with this campaign. It has been a blast so far!!

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But in this case, I believe HW has said to B&M, that is as long as this is a B&M, do what you want and go all out.

 

Why are many people assuming this...?

 

Holiday World is

1.) building their very first steel so I doubt it's going to be the BEST steel coaster ever like some are expecting - You build yourselves up to that overtime.

2.) probably the most family friendly large park (besides Magic Kingdom/DisneyLand) I've been to, so I think this is going to be a ride the whole family can enjoy.

 

Sure, it will be thrilling, but I'd bet anything this isn't going to be no Intimidator 305 insane intense ride (or even equivalent to the old-school B&M punch).

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Holiday World is

1.) building their very first steel so I doubt it's going to be the BEST steel coaster ever like some are expecting - You build yourselves up to that overtime.

 

Why can't it be the best steel coaster ever? Kolmarden is building their very first wood coaster and they claim it will be the best thing ever. I'm just excited to get back there soon, it will be great no matter if its the best ever or just a solid ride.

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Holiday World is

1.) building their very first steel so I doubt it's going to be the BEST steel coaster ever like some are expecting - You build yourselves up to that overtime.

 

Why can't it be the best steel coaster ever? Kolmarden is building their very first wood coaster and they claim it will be the best thing ever. I'm just excited to get back there soon, it will be great no matter if its the best ever or just a solid ride.

 

 

For some people, if it's not Intimidator 305, it can't be a 5-star coaster. Even though there IS much more to a coaster than intensity.

 

Expedition Everest, Gemini, Wild Eagle, Veil of Dark etc.

Edited by JonnyRCT3
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But in this case, I believe HW has said to B&M, that is as long as this is a B&M, do what you want and go all out.

 

Why are many people assuming this...?

 

Holiday World is

1.) building their very first steel so I doubt it's going to be the BEST steel coaster ever like some are expecting - You build yourselves up to that overtime.

2.) probably the most family friendly large park (besides Magic Kingdom/DisneyLand) I've been to, so I think this is going to be a ride the whole family can enjoy.

 

Sure, it will be thrilling, but I'd bet anything this isn't going to be no Intimidator 305 insane intense ride (or even equivalent to the old-school B&M punch).

 

Who's assuming what? No one is saying it will be the best, but it could definitely be top 5 material. Also, why wouldnt they say go all out, whats wrong with that? This is all matter of opinion... no reason to get all fussy

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I'm not a coaster guy (but have nothing against them or their foamer fans...lol) so I hope this expansion has something for those of us that get their thrills from flat rides and dark rides.

 

On a side note, with the center of the park eventually focusing on the Thanksgiving section of the park, who else out there can't wait to see what a Holiday World of that size looks like!?!

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Holiday World is

1.) building their very first steel so I doubt it's going to be the BEST steel coaster ever like some are expecting - You build yourselves up to that overtime.

 

Why can't it be the best steel coaster ever? Kolmarden is building their very first wood coaster and they claim it will be the best thing ever. I'm just excited to get back there soon, it will be great no matter if its the best ever or just a solid ride.

 

 

For some people, if it's not Intimidator 305, it can't be a 5-star coaster. Even though there IS much more to a coaster than intensity.

 

Expedition Everest, Gemini, Wild Eagle, Veil of Dark etc.

 

To add a few more to that list, Cheetah Hunt, Lightning Racer, and Full Throttle (more fun that intense), and those are all in my top twenty! A coaster definitely does not have to be intense to be good.

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^That does depend on the person. Personally, even though there are rides that I find very fun there will have to be a bit more for them to reach my top. Obviously intensity is not all but, in my opinion, there needs to be a bit of it. For example, I found Steel Force at dorney very fun (especially those last hills) but I don't rank it that high while my favourite coaster (Dragon Khan) doesn't have ridiculous G forces but it is relatively intense, with a nice pacing and some fast transitions (the really fast zero G, for instance). Naturally this is not most park guests opinion (all of my friends who went to Portaventura with me asked how could I prefer DK to shambhala) and, yeah, in that sense, a coaster doesn't need to be intense to be popular.

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I know HW has been wanting and has been planning a nice steel coaster for a few years now, but I was thinking it wouldnt happen for a few more years. But with the developments with KK the past 2 years and it now up and running, very well too, Im pretty sure HW thought they needed to do it right away and not lose too much attendance to KK and really do so by adding something big and exciting.

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