HWFan Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Even though I'm a bit late here, I wanted to add something regarding the HW vs SFSL comparisons. When you look at the water parks, you have to think about each park's different operating calendars. SFSL opens approximately a month before HW and runs through the last weekend of October (or first weekend of November). Fright Fest is one of the busiest times of the year at SFSL, so it makes sense for them to focus on attractions that can run during their entire season. It seems like HW has its busiest times during the summer, which is why a bigger water park works well for the park. However, I think it is impossible to definitively state one park is better than the other, as it depends on the person. HW used to be a full two day park for me, but now that I'm in a wheelchair, Wildebeest and Mammoth are the only things I have in the water park. Plus, it also depends if you want to visit for a day or get a season pass. Days tickets are cheaper overall for HW while the season passes for SFSL are around half of what they are at HW. I think trying to rank the parks side by side can be interesting, but it shouldn't be taken too seriously. I love both parks! I love JLBM and Gobble Getaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koasterking48 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I'm not sure there are very many season pass holders on TPR, but Holiday World sent out this question on Facebook a little bit ago: Personally, I would like them to have ERT an hour after the park closes on certain nights, or open Thunderbird and Voyage an hour earlier to passholders. I'm glad they are adding at least some new benefit to the season pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellynn4 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 It's an interesting discussion considering some of the perks other parks will use, like free parking, are already free at Holiday World (a good problem to have!). Some things I'd think would work are: - Early entry (select days if necessary) - ERT on certain attractions on particular days out of the year - Discount / coupon book containing: - Bring-A-Friend Entry discounts - Food / Merch discounts - Locker rental discounts Just some initial thoughts based on perks from other chains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koasterking48 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 ^ Bring a Friend days on Mothers and Fathers Day for $20 as well as merchandise/food discounts are already there. I think that expanding the bring-a-friend days to more of them throughout the year is a great idea. Edit: And just to clarify, it sounds like the park is more leaning towards another tier above a season pass. So the levels from bottom to top would be Summer Fun Card, Season Pass, Premium Season Pass. Sounds like ERT may be the best option for that premium status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellynn4 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 ^ Ah, I see. Thanks for the info. You know what I'd like? The power to expel one person from the park. You know when you see that one a-hole cutting the whole line or someone is just genuinely being obnoxious in some way? Wouldn't it be great if you could just wave down a security guard, tell them you'd like to cash in your free expulsion, then point to the offending party and gleefully watch them get dragged out of the park? That's realistic, right? Meh, oh well. One can dream... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodon Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 I think their premium pass should include: -Food/merchandise discounts -access to Holiwood Nights without being a coaster club member -early entrance to the water park -bring a friend discounts -VIP parking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermonkey317 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 ^ Ah, I see. Thanks for the info. You know what I'd like? The power to expel one person from the park. You know when you see that one a-hole cutting the whole line or someone is just genuinely being obnoxious in some way? Wouldn't it be great if you could just wave down a security guard, tell them you'd like to cash in your free expulsion, then point to the offending party and gleefully watch them get dragged out of the park? That's realistic, right? Meh, oh well. One can dream... Best Idea in the History of TPR Ideas!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCI Wooden Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 -access to Holiwood Nights without being a coaster club member No. There would be SO many people there it could make ERT (Exclusive Ride Time) EWT (Exclusive Wait Time). You don't see Kings Island opening Coasterstock to Platinum passholders or Cedar Point opening Coastermania to Platinum Passholders. You know what I'd like? The power to expel one person from the park. You know when you see that one a-hole cutting the whole line or someone is just genuinely being obnoxious in some way? Wouldn't it be great if you could just wave down a security guard, tell them you'd like to cash in your free expulsion, then point to the offending party and gleefully watch them get dragged out of the park? That's realistic, right? I am totally on board with this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Maven Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 ^ Ha! I'd actually proposed this earlier in the season for our full-time staff - one "banned" card for each of us to use at our individual discretion. Despite the fact that this didn't fly, I've already used mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GCI Wooden Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Despite the fact that this didn't fly, I've already used mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellynn4 Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 ^ Ha! I'd actually proposed this earlier in the season for our full-time staff - one "banned" card for each of us to use at our individual discretion. Despite the fact that this didn't fly, I've already used mine. Haha, great minds, Paula! In all seriousness, I imagine it must be bittersweet having to actually have to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodon Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 -access to Holiwood Nights without being a coaster club member No. There would be SO many people there it could make ERT (Exclusive Ride Time) EWT (Exclusive Wait Time). You don't see Kings Island opening Coasterstock to Platinum passholders or Cedar Point opening Coastermania to Platinum Passholders. I don't think that comparing the "premier" HW season pass to a Cedar Fair platinum pass is entirely fair. First off, the platinum passes biggest benefit is that it offers the holder complimentary admission and parking to every Cedar Fair property for $204. Holiday World doesn't have that option as they are the only park in their brand. With that said, their season pass is $139.99, which is a very fair price for what HW offers, but significantly more expensive than Cedar Fair and Six Flags season passes and does not include any other parks. Second, I was at Holiwood Nights this year, and my understanding was that it was the most attended HWN yet. With that said, I had no problems getting a large amount of rides in during every ERT, including about 45 rides on Thunderbird during the two nights. I doubt that offering access to HWN premium season pass would increase attendance so significantly that it would greatly impact the "exclusivity" of the ERT. Note, they would still have to pay the $33 fee that a coaster club member with a regular season pass would have payed previously. Lastly, it really isn't that hard to gain access to HWN as long as you know about it. It's not some major secret that only a select few enthusiasts know about. You either have to belong to a coaster club or go with someone who is a member. If someone really wants to go to HWN and don't know a enthusiast, they just have to pay around $35 to any club of their choice and they are in. Keep in mind that this is $35 that HW never sees, but with access to HWN being a part of a premium pass, it could make HWN more profitable for them if people purchase the premium pass for that access. To differentiate a regular season pass and a premium season pass, the park has to offer something worthwhile to justify the additional cost. Most parks/chains do that by offering free parking (HW already does that) or offering admission to other parks (HW has no other parks), so HW has to be a bit more creative to justify that extra expense and I think that offering access to HWN is a great option for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytterbiumanalyst Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ^ They have one other park, Alabama Adventure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodon Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ^ They have one other park, Alabama Adventure. My understanding is that they are two very separate entities with similar business practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytterbiumanalyst Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ^ Well, yes, if by "similar business practices" you mean "owned by the same people." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodon Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ^ Well, yes, if by "similar business practices" you mean "owned by the same people." I guess you could say that Holiday World and Alabama Adventure are owned by the same people like Adidas and Puma are owned by the same people. If you aren't familiar with what went down in 2013 feel free to look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolidayWorldFTW Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Yea the two are NOT owned by the same people. They are both owned by relatives of each other. Two completely separate entities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ytterbiumanalyst Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ^ Well, yes, if by "similar business practices" you mean "owned by the same people." If you aren't familiar with what went down in 2013 feel free to look it up. Believe me, I don't really want to be "familiar" with anything of that sort at all. But I am aware of what happened, yes. I do believe the relationship is slightly more complex than "two completely separate entities," though it's safe to assume that you won't be seeing any two-park passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravity55 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Lori Koch and her kids own 60% of Holiday World. They have nothing to do with Alabama Splash Adventure, nor do they own any stake in that park. Lori's brother-in-law, Dan Koch (who ran HW for a brief time after Will Koch passed away) runs ASA. Dan owns 40% of HW, but since he doesn't have control over the park, he basically has nothing to do with the park anymore. That's the most simple way to describe that whole mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodon Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ^ Well, yes, if by "similar business practices" you mean "owned by the same people." If you aren't familiar with what went down in 2013 feel free to look it up. Believe me, I don't really want to be "familiar" with anything of that sort at all. Huh??? I don't get what you mean... But I am aware of what happened, yes. I do believe the relationship is slightly more complex than "two completely separate entities," though it's safe to assume that you won't be seeing any two-park passes. This is, again, really confusing. First you say that HW has another park, then say that they are owned by the same people, then this statement. If this was your thought from the get go, why even bring up Alabama Adventure in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) This is, again, really confusing. First you say that HW has another park, then say that they are owned by the same people, then this statement. If this was your thought from the get go, why even bring up Alabama Adventure in the first place? Everything you guys are discussing is all public record and from what I'm seeing in this discussion, not totally accurate. Why don't you do a bit more research on the subject before you all go trying to "prove each other wrong" because from the looks of it, you all are. That being said, can we please move on to talking about the park, Thunderbird, or other things surrounding Holiday World? Thanks! Edited July 7, 2015 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWFan Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 -access to Holiwood Nights without being a coaster club member No. There would be SO many people there it could make ERT (Exclusive Ride Time) EWT (Exclusive Wait Time). You don't see Kings Island opening Coasterstock to Platinum passholders or Cedar Point opening Coastermania to Platinum Passholders. I don't think that comparing the "premier" HW season pass to a Cedar Fair platinum pass is entirely fair. First off, the platinum passes biggest benefit is that it offers the holder complimentary admission and parking to every Cedar Fair property for $204. Holiday World doesn't have that option as they are the only park in their brand. With that said, their season pass is $139.99, which is a very fair price for what HW offers, but significantly more expensive than Cedar Fair and Six Flags season passes and does not include any other parks. Second, I was at Holiwood Nights this year, and my understanding was that it was the most attended HWN yet. With that said, I had no problems getting a large amount of rides in during every ERT, including about 45 rides on Thunderbird during the two nights. I doubt that offering access to HWN premium season pass would increase attendance so significantly that it would greatly impact the "exclusivity" of the ERT. Note, they would still have to pay the $33 fee that a coaster club member with a regular season pass would have payed previously. Lastly, it really isn't that hard to gain access to HWN as long as you know about it. It's not some major secret that only a select few enthusiasts know about. You either have to belong to a coaster club or go with someone who is a member. If someone really wants to go to HWN and don't know a enthusiast, they just have to pay around $35 to any club of their choice and they are in. Keep in mind that this is $35 that HW never sees, but with access to HWN being a part of a premium pass, it could make HWN more profitable for them if people purchase the premium pass for that access. To differentiate a regular season pass and a premium season pass, the park has to offer something worthwhile to justify the additional cost. Most parks/chains do that by offering free parking (HW already does that) or offering admission to other parks (HW has no other parks), so HW has to be a bit more creative to justify that extra expense and I think that offering access to HWN is a great option for them. The only way that HW would put all of the time/money/effort into creating a new type of SP is if they were going to sell thousands of them. The enthusiast event is an event for enthusiasts. It's tailored to them. For Six Flags St. Louis, here is what a Gold Season Pass adds, minus the parking: - Every day 10 minute early entry to the theme park or water park, allowing you to be first in line for your favorite attraction. - Two special bring-a-friend free days for the season - Free tickets to any of the park's concerts that can be picked up at any time, best available seating. That seems pretty feasible for Holiday World. The hardest one would probably be the rock-the-world free tickets. The pricing will be interesting to see though. What would be pretty easy to organize would be exclusive ride time events for pass holders. All you do is 1) set up a table/tent around the front mall to distribute wristbands to pass holders throughout the day, 2) schedule 2-3 rides in a concentrated section of the park to stay open an extra 90 minutes, and 3) only let people with the wristbands ride or have access to the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolidayWorldFTW Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The Rock the World tickets would be awesome... But that really is becoming a HUGE deal/crowd pleaser/hit. I dunno how feasible it would be to give free tickets to that away. It would really sell some premium season passes in this area I think though. Rock the World is quite an experience and they are able to bring in pretty big names too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodon Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 ^^ I guess I really underestimated the amount of season passes HW sells. Regardless, it is very clear by what each park/chain offers in their season passes for the cost that the HW/CF/SF have very different strategies for season pass sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyleparks77 Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 Has anyone seen the 60 fps side-by-side video of Thunderbird that Robb posted on TPR twitter? Its pretty sweet. Plus if you retweet it you have a chance to win a flag that flew on top of Voyage's lift hill, which would be pretty freakin awesome to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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