JonnyRCT3 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 And also, "force" doesn't play into my disappointment nearly as much as the layout itself (I mean seriously, two very tall turnarounds plugged in back-to-back...). Although, if this ride does end up being unexpectedly forceful, it certainly wouldn't hurt. It's a wing coaster, you already know what to expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLex Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Haha!! Fantastic post vacoaster09! I can't wait for Ed Hart's "answer" in the coming years. KK will try to compete with volume: for the same expenditure, you could get (1) Lightning Run, a high quality, fun airtime machine ($7 million), (2) Gold Striker CGI woodie (probably in the $7-$8 million range) and (3) another medium wooden coaster or small steel coaster. Not sure which plan brings more repeat customers..... KK is pretty locked into their plan between 2015 SLC, 2016 Twins. Any additional rides like the ones you mentioned would be gravy... still vapor until anything is announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coaster19 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I am very surprised by this addition to HW! As a family thrill rides this will be a huge success. It will be an extremely fun ride. Majority of my favorite rides are not "forceful" but are simply fun. This one seems it could do the trick as being a fun coaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkjunkie Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I just cant believe the amount of nit picking Im hearing. So many ungrateful people on here. Sounds like alot of people on here who are the type that would get a FREE new car and whine and complain because it didnt have air conditioned seats, self parallel parking, a back up camera or because it has 300 HP instead of 325HP. Its just never enough for some of you guys and that is sad. You have to look at it this way, a $22 million ride for Holiday World is like a $35 million ride for a big park. If every ride was built massive, long, fast, and "forceful" you would again get bored with the same old thing year after year. Im starting to think if Holiday World would have built what SOME OF YOU are crabbing about not getting, you would still find every little thing to complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshuadrooney Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'm so so so excited to ride this! I got the name right... Thunderbird! Hahaha but I must confess now,,, I found the trademark application for it when I first posted that name on here( they were SNEAKY). This ride was NOT for the enthusiasts this ride was all about us GP and fans of Holiday World who have been BEGGING for YEARS for this type of ride! They went way beyond my expectations! It's going to look beautiful in the park! The theming is just fantastic and the whole rode experience looks just absolutely amazing! Thank you SOOOOOO much Holiday World! You just sold another season pass for next year! I have to disagree with one thing you posted (even though I agree with the rest): This ride was for BOTH the enthusiasts and the GP. Both groups have been asking for a steel, and even though some enthusiasts don't seem to be open to changing their minds about wing coasters, many enthusiasts (like myself) like wing coasters and are super excited about this addition. And the entire campaign was targeted at the enthusiasts. Actually every ride is for the GP, which enthusiasts are a constituent of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nwstone Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Has anyone been keeping up with the construction cam today? Today begins that phase in construction where we would absolutely know what they were building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshuadrooney Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) [opinion] Posts like these bring out the worst in the coaster community. Lots of nitpicking, armchair experts offering up lectures, someone even legitimately came out with their disappointment that a small, family oriented park didn't build a Hyper... just be pleased a small park is confident enough to commit to such a large investment, and hope this paves the way for the future. [/opinion] Edited July 25, 2014 by Joshuadrooney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenbowl Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) And also, "force" doesn't play into my disappointment nearly as much as the layout itself (I mean seriously, two very tall turnarounds plugged in back-to-back...). Although, if this ride does end up being unexpectedly forceful, it certainly wouldn't hurt. That is exactly how I feel right now. Sure, I can dig the Immelman that almost pulls out like a drop (similar to Dive Coasters), but the vertical loop is bland, and the next two elements seem to be filler. I would have liked there to be more speedy terrain, low-to-the-ground stuff, but we're getting a lot of tall swoopy elements. The ending segment looks the most interesting, but it doesn't look like it can take that s-curve, helix, twist combo with any significant speed. I just think the coaster could have interacted with the forest/Voyage a lot better. But here's to hoping the shorter trains will pace better than the other Wing Coasters! Regardless, I have even more incentive to visit Holiday World, a world-class theme park for sure! EDIT: To the people complaining about enthusiasts "nit-picking" and "being un-grateful," Holiday World is a park I've never visited before and is VERY high on my list of American parks I need to go to. That being said, we are merely sharing our opinions about what we know about the ride, based on rides and elements we have been on similar to Thunderbird. I for one, was not impressed with Wild Eagle as a coaster, but LOVED Dollywood as a park anyway, I can see how the coaster is a good fit! I think the same applies for Holiday World, this addition boosts them into a higher level of theme park quality and size, and good for them! Although I can see that this coaster will be a hit for the park and any normal guest, it is definitely a let down for an enthusiast, especially with Voyage right next door. Edited July 25, 2014 by chickenbowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prozach626 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'm scrapping the name and calling it Wild Turkey. ...because so much win in that name. /end name discussion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Maven Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 A lunch will not magically change the way they do things, Yes, but at least we won't get as hungry in the afternoon ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prozach626 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) I'm really hoping they keep the sound of thunder at the launch. The new trend of having a short sound clip before a drop or launch is really need to me. I get the geeked out chills when I hear the perfectly timed Banshee scream right before the drop. I think it really adds something to the ride and gives it a little more character. I'll be disappointed if it's only a first year or two hype kind of thing. Does anyone know if X-Flight still plays its sound clip on the lift? I'm probably in the minority here, but I find the theme kind of, well, dumb. I mean, if Holiday World released everything except for the part saying the bird saves the passengers, wouldn't we all be a bit confused? Plus, shouldn't the station be a ship if that's where we are being saved from? I just don't get how after 66 days of hearing how rough the sea is and worrying about survival, the coaster is themed to a bird flying over a farm. I can't lie... the more I think about the theme, the more I agree with you. On its own the theme works and it looks great. However, tied into the Thanksgiving section it gives you kind of six flags moment of "Wait... why is there a skate board ride in a mid-evil section??" That being said, I'd want my 22 Million dollar multi-looping launched coaster to have an intimidating name and theme, too. I understand why they did it. And one more thing, when people say "How do you know this will be forceless? Isn't that what people said about Banshee?", yes you are right, I have no clue how the forces will be, but at least when Banshee was announced, we had hope for forces since B&M have built lots of forceful inverts. Unfortunately, they haven't built a forceful wing coaster yet, so I don't have that same hope for Thunderbird. Again, I get where you're coming from. If you've ever ridden Wild Eagle, it feels like it's alllllmost there, as far as being a forceful ride. You get a few forces and just enough to have fun, but it kind of teases you at the same time. I'm hoping by looking at the layout that this will kind of push that envelope into a more forceful ride. That being said, I can't tell for sure if the ride is going to have decent forces by watching the video than anyone can tell if it's not going to be forceful. Why do people care so much about forces? I have NEVER heard, not even once, from anyone outside the enthusiast community, of a ride not having enough force. 99% of people judge a ride on how fun it was, not "it didn't pull 4.5 g's". 2 to 3 g's provides plenty of dynamic forces imho. WE care about forces, but the GP does not. Most compliments you hear about a ride are "It's so smooth." That's literally the first thing I heard three or four people say when I got off of Banshee on my first ride. B&M does not seem interested in designing top-tier rides. I can at least understand most of your points... but this one was just dumb. Top-tier rides by who's standards? Edited July 25, 2014 by prozach626 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyRCT3 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'd personally like to know what prompted Holiday World to go with B&M? Why not some other companies like Mack, Intamin or Vekoma? Also, is the LSM B&M technology, or some other 3rd party like the Incredible Hulk Coaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prozach626 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) ^ I think they wanted something to WOW the GP that coaster enthusiasts would still want to ride. A traditional sit down launched coaster doesn't grab as much attention with the GP as something that offers a new experience to most people, like a wing rider. There are no close roller coasters that offer what Thunderbird offers, within five hours. That and reliability reasons are why the likely didn't go with Intamin. Edited July 25, 2014 by prozach626 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glouthan Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'd personally like to know what prompted Holiday World to go with B&M? Why not some other companies like Mack, Intamin or Vekoma? Also, is the LSM B&M technology, or some other 3rd party like the Incredible Hulk Coaster? I think they wanted a highly dependable ride that wouldn't break down often. Rule out Intamin. They wanted something smooth, something enjoyable for families, so rule out Vekoma. Will's dream was a winged coaster (apparently), so rule out Mack. I think holiday World made a great choice picking B&M, so I hope this rides as good as it looks! A lunch will not magically change the way they do things, Yes, but at least we won't get as hungry in the afternoon ... And Prozach626, X-Flight still has the sound on the lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterchitchat Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I'd personally like to know what prompted Holiday World to go with B&M? Why not some other companies like Mack, Intamin or Vekoma? Also, is the LSM B&M technology, or some other 3rd party like the Incredible Hulk Coaster? I believe LSM B&M technology. They've said for a while they can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gecomet92 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 As reliable as B&M is you can't judge this ride at all. Every single other B&M has the standard lift hill (besides Hulk which doesn't count). You can't expect this ride to have good reliability, after all B&M has never tinkered with a launch. For all we know the launching mechanism could be plagued with problems. After all a launch is much more complex than a standard lift hill. Trust me I don't think B&M would ever put something on a coaster that would cause reliability issues unless they were 100% sure it would work. I think everyone should just wait and see how the reliability is after year one of operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigaG Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 The brake fins in the animation look like Krake to me. The new vertical fins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarheel1231 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I feel left out I've never been on a wing coaster/wing rider (at this point, I don't care what the official term is, it rides on the outside of the track). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterchitchat Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I feel left out I've never been on a wing coaster/wing rider (at this point, I don't care with the official term is, it rides on the outside of the track). Sorry. Guess Thunderbird will be your first one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intimidator305 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I have NEVER heard, not even once, from anyone outside the enthusiast community, of a ride not having enough force. I hear it on a constant basis believe it or not, all over the place. Now, some don't say "forces", but complain about bigger rides being "weak" or "not powerful". It does matter to some of the people that aren't coaster enthusiasts believe it or not - that's part of the reason why I believe Banshee is doing so well, it has some good forces unlike the majority of B&Ms recently. Now for a park like Holiday World that already has The Voyage, forces aren't needed on this ride... they're putting in a ride with exactly the level of intensity/thrill for us as I was expecting. Good for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 A lunch will not magically change the way they do things, Yes, but at least we won't get as hungry in the afternoon ... LOL!!! I just want to say HW did a great job with this one and this is one enthusiast (because a previous poster said ALL enthusiasts were let down- NOT TRUE) that is really excited to see this bird take flight. As reliable as B&M is you can't judge this ride at all. Every single other B&M has the standard lift hill (besides Hulk which doesn't count). You can't expect this ride to have good reliability, after all B&M has never tinkered with a launch. For all we know the launching mechanism could be plagued with problems. After all a launch is much more complex than a standard lift hill. Trust me I don't think B&M would ever put something on a coaster that would cause reliability issues unless they were 100% sure it would work. I think everyone should just wait and see how the reliability is after year one of operation. First you say you can't expect this ride to have good reliability and that (for all we know) it could be "plagued with problems", then you say you don't think B&M would ever put something on a coaster that would cause reliability issues unless they were 100% sure it would work which contradicts your previous statement.... so which is it? And no other coaster manufacturer would ever put something on a coaster that would cause reliability issues unless they were 100% sure it would work? Come on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gecomet92 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Okay what I was trying to say is nobody knows how well this coaster is gonna fair reliability wise, everyone thinks it's gonna be up to par with the reliability of all the other B&M's. It could very well be every bit as reliable as other b&ms but I just can't see the launch not having problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prozach626 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) ^ When Honda comes out with a new prototype car, you can be fairly confident it's going to be reliable due to their reputation of building reliable cars. GM may try to out do Honda and build a similar car that is more exciting... but it's also going to be a piece of shit that breaks down on the regular. B&M has established itself as a company that builds reliable coasters, so people expect that reliability. Their designs are based on less moving parts for more simplicity and less areas for failure. LSM technology has been out for years and if I were to guess, B&M already has a strategy to make it as reliable as possible. B&M is just now building a launched coaster, because they are now ready to build a launched coaster. They may not be as innovative and risky as other companies, which is why when you buy a B&M, you know what you're going to get. B&M has more of an interest in perfecting existing technology rather than jumping ahead to the next new thing. They have learned from the mistakes of other companies and so far their strategy looks like it's working. Edited July 25, 2014 by prozach626 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmcdllr Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) Okay what I was trying to say is nobody knows how well this coaster is gonna fair reliability wise, everyone thinks it's gonna be up to par with the reliability of all the other B&M's. It could very well be every bit as reliable as other b&ms but I just can't see the launch not having problems. Ok then. I agree with you that I'm sure B&M would not do something unless they were sure it would work, actually any coaster manufacturer for that matter. And yes this is a new field for them and being the first of it's type for them there is the possibility that it might be buggy- not a big deal, happens all the time. That's what the testing phase is for. But the technology has been around for awhile now and by now I would think that these types of launch systems in general would be pretty well figured out, I mean it's been done so many times now, so in that respect I would say there is less likely to be problems than if this technology was brand new. And you gotta figure, all these companies launching coasters- it's all basically the same technology, the difference is the train and ride design, that's pretty much it. Will there be problem? Eh, don't know, but if there are I expect them to be minor and something easily corrected during testing.... not any different than any other launched coaster using this technology. Edited July 25, 2014 by Tmcdllr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarheel1231 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 I feel left out I've never been on a wing coaster/wing rider (at this point, I don't care with the official term is, it rides on the outside of the track). Sorry. Guess Thunderbird will be your first one. LOL! I'm nowhere near Santa Claus, so I won't be able to ride that coaster anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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