Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread

[DLex]

This ride looks gorgeous. I can't wait to visit next season. I'm hoping all the nay-sayers realize that in addition to Holiday World's addition... this adds a new coaster to the B&M portfolio! I can't wait to see them integrate it across all their models (and they will).

[Jonathan15]

My question is why does Holiday World get the first B&M launch with wings?! I'm assuming once Thunderbird is a hit, more B&M launches will be created, but this concept is definitely unique.

 

Who knows, we could be seeing launched B&M flyers, or even Drop Towers that extend to 500 feet! The possibilities are endless!

[Firechaser]

To answer all of the theme questions this is what Holiday World says...

LEGEND: In 1620, as the Mayflower neared the end of its 66 days at sea, a mighty storm nearly capsized the ship, taking it hundreds of miles off course. As passengers and crew feared all was lost, an immense bird appeared in the sky. The thunderbird, whose wings created the thunder and eyes flashed the lightning of the powerful storm, rescued the ship by launching it through the sky to the New World.

[Woodie Warrior]

To answer all of the theme questions this is what Holiday World says...

LEGEND: In 1620, as the Mayflower neared the end of its 66 days at sea, a mighty storm nearly capsized the ship, taking it hundreds of miles off course. As passengers and crew feared all was lost, an immense bird appeared in the sky. The thunderbird, whose wings created the thunder and eyes flashed the lightning of the powerful storm, rescued the ship by launching it through the sky to the New World.

I think the main question was how the modern day farm themeing played into the story.

[rcjp]

I've been thinking, the acceleration figure isn't that impressive. 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, which is 0,78 Gs. However, I won't definitely blame them as not only is this their first one (and as they develop the technology it might get better) but also even though the trains only have 5 cars (not much for a B&M) that is usually the maximum LSM coasters have and these wing coaster trains do seem heavy.

[vacoaster09]

KK's faces last night at the annoucement:

@ The fact that it's a launched B&M coaster

 

@ the fact that it's a wing coaster

 

@ the fact that HW finally has a Large Steel Coaster

 

@ the fact that it has 4 inversions

 

@ the fact that HW dropped $22 Mil on a single ride!

[parkjunkie]

^ LMFAO, Nice, very nice!!!

[boldikus]

^lmao one of the best posts ever on here. well done.

[tarheel1231]

Paula, if you're still reading the forum, can you tell us if Thunderbird will have the classic B&M roar? Nothing sounds more like thunder than a roaring B&M!

[DLex]

Haha!! Fantastic post vacoaster09! I can't wait for Ed Hart's "answer" in the coming years.

[DivideByZero]

And I'm moving to Indiana to go to Purdue, this just makes it that much better!

[mikeykaise]

Didn't they say they were going to add the clue reveals to the 66 Day website?

[Ed Farmer]

There's war in the middle east, planes are getting shot down, and now B&M has done what everyone said they wouldn't ever do: build another launched coaster.

 

I recall reading an interview with either B or M several years back (years before Leviathan as well, IIRC) in which this topic was specifically addressed. The gist of it was that could build a 300 footer if a customer asked them to, and they could build a launcher if a customer asked them to. I don't think I've ever seen anything directly attributed to them saying they would never build those types of coasters- it strikes me as a coaster urban myth kind of thing that just took on a life of it's own after enough people posted it as fact.

 

Similarly, I don't think I've ever seen anything from B&M about this whole concept that the Wing Coaster is only a test-bed of sorts for some upcoming 4D Coaster. It started around the time X-Raptor was announced and just kept on gaining steam every time someone parroted it. Meanwhile, we've had 7 more "test-beds" built in the few years since the first one in Gardaland, and nary a peep about a 4D Coaster.

If it turns I missed something and there is something from B&M saying otherwise, disregard, of course.

[tororific]

. Also, wing coasters are still a relatively new type of coaster, so B&M probably may not have worked out all of the kinks in them yet. Who knows, one of these days, wing coasters could be much more amazing rides.

 

I think there are lots of cool possibilities to explore with wingriders (and even flyers). I have really come to appreciate Gatekeeper and think it is a very solid ride. The slow near upside down twist at the top of the lift is pretty awe-inspiring you can really get a sense of "flying' on this type of ride. I still think these types of rides can benefit from alternating more effectively from up high (for the "oh crap, look how high we are" moments) to way down low (running close to the ground).

 

In general, I think many coasters don't effectively use proximity to the ground, and terrain / trees / etc., all which can dramatically improve the ride experience. If you think about it, the best referent we have for speed is the ground or ground-based objects flying by us -- when a coaster is low to the ground, the perception of speed is great enhanced, and very-low-to-the-ground turns are always thrilling and effective -- think about the second turn on the Whizzer, the quick back and forth turns very low to the ground at the end of El Toro, through the first rock sequence on Maverick, even the helixes at the end of X-Flight and Gatekeeper have great potential to be thrilling (if they didn't occur as the ride was losing speed).

 

I think Thunderbird does a slightly better job of taking advantage of low to the ground features at the back end, but could have done a lot more.

 

I hope that B&M designs really push wingriders further with features, because the promise is there. I am not terribly optimistic because when I consider all the possibilities with inverted coasters, they largely have recycled past elements and followed very similar profiles -- for every Nemesis there are a billion Batman-like clones. Again, I know the park has some say in that, but ....

[thesman]

Did she just say flywheel????

 

i thought it was using lsm for the launch.

[loop-de-loop]

shoot, we got socks for Christmas again!

 

I kid, I kid. For Holiday World, this really is a very big thing, and I am very happy for them. But, truth be told, other than the launch component (which will be cool), this a pretty standard sized wingrider. I think they obviously chose a style and design that would have broad appeal for everyone, and probably saw the enormous hit that Wild Eagle was for Dollywood (assuming everything wasn't already ironclad with B&M before then).

I completely agree with this post and was going to say the same thing.

 

I'm probably in the minority here, but I find the theme kind of, well, dumb. I mean, if Holiday World released everything except for the part saying the bird saves the passengers, wouldn't we all be a bit confused? Plus, shouldn't the station be a ship if that's where we are being saved from? I just don't get how after 66 days of hearing how rough the sea is and worrying about survival, the coaster is themed to a bird flying over a farm.

 

With that said, I still think it will be a huge success for them.

 

And one more thing, when people say "How do you know this will be forceless? Isn't that what people said about Banshee?", yes you are right, I have no clue how the forces will be, but at least when Banshee was announced, we had hope for forces since B&M have built lots of forceful inverts. Unfortunately, they haven't built a forceful wing coaster yet, so I don't have that same hope for Thunderbird.

Edited July 25, 2014 by loop-de-loop

[neil009]

 

I hope that B&M designs really push wingriders further with features, because the promise is there. I am not terribly optimistic because when I consider all the possibilities with inverted coasters, they largely have recycled past elements and followed very similar profiles -- for every Nemesis there are a billion Batman-like clones. Again, I know the park has some say in that, but ....

 

To hear some people tell it, we can't blame B&M for anything about their designs, it's all what the park asked for. As if Cedar Point said to them, "Oh yeah, and make sure it's got a really weak ending after the MCBR. And don't make the airtime hill very strong, we don't want airtime on this ride." True, somebody at HW could have said "we'd like most of the ride built below the tree line to enhance the feeling of speed and excitement, particularly given the ride's rather modest stats", but I'd say it's more B&M's fault for not suggesting it, they are the ones in charge of designing the ride, after all. But like I said umpteen pages ago, B&M does not seem interested in designing top-tier rides.

 

EDIT: So we're clear on this, I'm happy for Holiday World and I think this will be a "good" addition to the park. I look forward to riding it when I visit next year. My reaction here is based on the cost and the long build-up, and the fact that it was so closely linked (in spirit) to the man that brought us the Voyage.

[JonnyRCT3]

Why do people care so much about forces?

 

I have NEVER heard, not even once, from anyone outside the enthusiast community, of a ride not having enough force. 99% of people judge a ride on how fun it was, not "it didn't pull 4.5 g's".

 

2 to 3 g's provides plenty of dynamic forces imho.

Edited July 25, 2014 by JonnyRCT3

[LogBur]

B&M does not seem interested in designing top-tier rides.

 

You're right. Banshee, Shambhala and Sky Scrapper are all essentially worthless.

 

Be disappointed, but how about you give this ride a spin before projecting generalizations?

[glouthan]

^^Part of the fun is the force! If you have a coaster that doesn't give you any negative or positive G's then it really is boring. Think of Expedition Geforce (MAXIMUM airtime), and Nemesis (Positive G). Those coasters wouldn't be rated nearly as high if they weren't forceful.

[tororific]

Haha!! Fantastic post vacoaster09! I can't wait for Ed Hart's "answer" in the coming years.

 

 

Funny post. If I'm Kentucky Kingdom, I am impressed by Holiday World's commitment to buy a quality, high-press-impact ride and put a ton of money down. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I don't like them putting some gigantic capital expenditure on one ride. This is three Lightning Runs. KK will try to compete with volume: for the same expenditure, you could get (1) Lightning Run, a high quality, fun airtime machine ($7 million), (2) Gold Striker CGI woodie (probably in the $7-$8 million range) and (3) another medium wooden coaster or small steel coaster.

 

Not sure which plan brings more repeat customers.....

[thrillseeker4552]

This looks like a great addition to Holiday World. It's thrilling and unique, yet family-friendly too. Can't wait to see the track start to go up.

[Midgetman82]

^^Part of the fun is the force! If you have a coaster that doesn't give you any negative or positive G's then it really is boring. Think of Expedition Geforce (MAXIMUM airtime), and Nemesis (Positive G). Those coasters wouldn't be rated nearly as high if they weren't forceful.

Are we forgetting every other aspect of a roller coaster that also ranks it highly? Smoothness, theming, quality, branding, seating, capacity, layout, speed, etc. Millenium Force isn't hugely forceful, but it's a fast, smooth, and highly re-rideable ride.

 

Also, anyone guessing this ride's g-forces off of an animation... just stop. Please.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Midgetman82

[loop-de-loop]

Why do people care so much about forces?

 

I have NEVER heard, not even once, from anyone outside the enthusiast community, of a ride not having enough force. 99% of people judge a ride on how fun it was, not "it didn't pull 4.5 g's".

 

You are right. The GP don't really care how forceful it is. It's just that most enthusiasts prefer more forceful rides. That's why a lot of people are posting "Great addition for the park, but doesn't look like a top 10 ride in the entire world"

[neil009]

B&M does not seem interested in designing top-tier rides.

 

You're right. Banshee, Shambhala and Sky Scrapper are all essentially worthless.

 

Be disappointed, but how about you give this ride a spin before projecting generalizations?

 

Ironic, considering not many TPR members have even ridden Sky Scrapper, and most of the hype is based purely off the POV, which is exactly the same kind of determination I'm making.

 

And also, "force" doesn't play into my disappointment nearly as much as the layout itself (I mean seriously, two very tall turnarounds plugged in back-to-back...). Although, if this ride does end up being unexpectedly forceful, it certainly wouldn't hurt.