Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread

[DJeXeL]

Only problem with YOLOcoaster is the park it was installed in.

In all seriousness, I love Premier coasters and if HW put in something like Sky Rocket, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

[ZeroGravity55]

New Holiblog post which uses the "mile per minute" phrase again.

 

Which clues pointed towards the new addition being a launched coaster? I honestly can't recall any clues that made it obvious that there was a launch. As for the LIM rooms, I think that a wooden shack might not be sufficient protection for hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment. Could the long straight line of footers just be...a lift hill?

 

You have obviously never seen a lift hill for a hype or giga before.

 

 

Does that line of footers on the construction site look like a lift hill for a giga or hyper? You're over thinking the wooden building being built. It doesn't need to be elaborate to house a computer room. Also, why does it need to be protected? Nobody in there right mind will venture out there and do anything to it. If gets destroyed in a storm, that's why they have insurance.

 

So where is the area the webcam is showing? (use map?)

 

It's looking out in the field behind Hyena Falls.

 

The Holiblog post said " One. Big. Thing" and it will be 2X the amount of the most expensive addition, Mammoth which was $9 million. So it'll be around/over $18 million. B&M sounds right to me! They've probably been saving up for 2015.

 

That's a ton of $$ for one ride for that park, but, obviously, they have accountants that have figured out the ROI for that type of huge expenditure. Maybe they figure these types of rides can greatly expand the population of visitors (I hope so because it is an awesome park!).

 

Sorry, but, can we please stay off the subject of "How is HW going to pay for something like this?" They've been around a while, if you're going to assume they can't pay for it then equally assume they can. This argument would make since pre-footers but HW has made the commitment to ONE BIG THING so lets say they know how to pay for it.

 

 

Why is this off limits? Don't know about others, but I am not assuming that they can't pay for it. But I am noting that IF it is an $18M investment for a single ride, that would be an unusually high expenditure for one ride for a theme park with their attendance, and significantly different than the cost of every other single ride they have ever put in (none of which have apparently ever exceeded $9M). It's reasonable to wonder how they intend to get ROI IF the expenditure is anywhere near that for one ride.

 

That would be an unusually high expenditure for a park that has drawn over a million in attendance for the last eight years? Just because they're not part of a big corporate chain, doesn't mean they don't have the money to make a 20+ million dollar investment. When they made that 13.5 million dollar investment back in 2006, they had yet to draw over a million in attendance, but they somehow could afford to make that investment. Just because they haven't made this type of investment since 2006, doesn't mean they weren't able to. Perhaps they've just been really smart in how they've managed their money? Perhaps they've been following a 10 years plan where they've been saving money every year for the last 10 years knowing 2015 was the year they were going to make this type of investment?

Edited July 15, 2014 by ZeroGravity55

[kyleparks77]

^ just go ahead and copy the last part of that post and repost it on each page. I don't understand why people have such an issue with the cost. If they're doing it then they can afford it. Simple as that.

[tororific]

 

That would be an unusually high expenditure for a park that has drawn over a million in attendance for the last eight years? Just because they're not part of a big corporate chain, doesn't mean they don't have the money to make a 20+ million dollar investment. When they made that 13.5 million dollar investment back in 2006, they had yet to draw over a million in attendance, but they somehow could afford to make that investment.

 

But that $13.5M investment was not for one ride -- it was for an entire new area, including infrastructure. The biggest investment was $6.5M for Voyage. And $9M for Mammoth, two years. Yes, an investment of $18M on a single ride, as some are proclaiming, IS a highly unusual expenditure for a park that draws 1M a year -- point me to any other park (including Holiday World) with this attendance that has spent anything near that on a single ride. No one is saying they don't have the money -- the question would be how they plan on recoup that investment. Apparently that is an offensive question to some, though I am not sure why.

[LogBur]

point me to any other park (including Holiday World) with this attendance that has spent anything near that on a single ride.

 

Ok.

 

Heide Park has spent 27 million Euros between 2011 and 2014 on Krake and Flug der Damonen. That's nearly $37 million USD in 4 years. That's $16+ million on Krake and $20+ million on Flug der Damonen for a park with attendance that hangs between 1.3-1.6million. Not far off from Holiday World at all.

Edited July 15, 2014 by LogBur

[ZeroGravity55]

^^ They recoup that investment the same way they've recouped the money for almost every other major investment they've ever made. Every major ride they've built brings then tremendous exposure. If you can't tell from the 66 days PR campaign, their PR department is quite good at marketing things and bringing the park great exposure. The park must feel they're ready for an increase in attendance, and a investment this big would justify that. A single ride like a steel coaster would bring that attendance jump they are looking for.

[tororific]

It's the internet, so I suppose we must argue about everything.

Heide Park is one the biggest parks in Germany. It has over 2 million visitors in 2001 and was part of both Tussauds and Merlin corporate groups, so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

I can't believe that the statement that a park like Holiday World potentially expending $18M on a single ride would be an atypically and unusually high expenditure is a controversial statement, but apparently it is -- happens all the time with small-to-midsized parks.

[Shavethewhales]

Those who are so insistent on underestimating this park will be blown away in ten days. This is a park that knows enthusiasts, and has told us that this is going to be a huge, exciting ride.

 

It reminds me of Silver Dollar City in 2000. No one expected this random little park in Missouri with only a handful of rides to smack down a massive B&M looper, but they did - and it kick started everything that HFEC has done since.

[HolidayWorldFTW]

 

That would be an unusually high expenditure for a park that has drawn over a million in attendance for the last eight years? Just because they're not part of a big corporate chain, doesn't mean they don't have the money to make a 20+ million dollar investment. When they made that 13.5 million dollar investment back in 2006, they had yet to draw over a million in attendance, but they somehow could afford to make that investment. Just because they haven't made this type of investment since 2006, doesn't mean they weren't able to. Perhaps they've just been really smart in how they've managed their money? Perhaps they've been following a 10 years plan where they've been saving money every year for the last 10 years knowing 2015 was the year they were going to make this type of investment?

 

 

^^^^ this times. BILLION. I question how well those that question the cost have actually followed the history of HW. Leah's post was EXETREMELY clear that not only is this their biggest investment ever but it is so "by far" and this investment is "ONE.BIG.THING." 13 mil was their previous largest investment. When we are talking about millions, 18 million does not seem "by far" larger than 13. I feel like a broken record because I feel I say this every post but a lot of you are WAY underestimating Holiday Worlds resources and their ability to recover said resources. I actually had a dream 2 nights ago that they announced the ride cost at 25 million. That may be more than what this is costing them, but I would not be surprised AT ALL either if it was actually close. I really strongly feel we need not let cost be a determining factor in our guesses. Remember HW also doesn't go way over the top and overboard on themeing. They do it in a right amount to where is not overbearing. They have sometimes even gradually added to themeing overtime on some rides to save on some of the upfront costs of the initial ride. I don't believe ANY of their coasters stations were fully themed their first seasons, and I think they all have changed a lot over the years from their first year. They would opt to spend way way more on an incredible and unique ride than they would less to make sure that said ride was overly themed. Again, last time I promise ... WE NEED NOT BE CONCERNED WITH COST IN OUR GUESSES!

[adam47150]

For those of you wondering about money and Holiday World, Matt knows money and how to manage it. He has a BS in accounting and at one time worked for a large accounting firm. I can guarantee you that Matt and the other money gurus at Holiday World and KDC went over the numbers many many times before pulling the trigger on this expansion.

[coasterkid124]

I have to agree that this ride may be based or themed around a bird. Besides turkeys, a bird that was around back then was the passenger pigeon. They are extinct now, but they used to fly around in giant flocks especially near the coast. One flock was reported to be about a mile long in the Toronto area while they were still alive. May sound crazy, but I don't see why not. It's unexpected yet is historically accurate to the time.

Nothing screams BIG, GIANT STEEL COASTER like "Passenger Pigeon: The Ride".

 

I'm not saying that that has to be the name of the coaster, but it could be like a theme. A member brought up the theme of birds and passenger pigeons were very common back in time. Maybe it is a ridiculous idea, but it is an idea.

[HolidayWorldFTW]

On a fun but unrelated note: I was watching the construction cam a bit ago and witnessed a deer walking about the construction site checking it out lol. What I would have given to be that deer checking it all out up close and personal!

[Intimidator305]

For those of you wondering about money and Holiday World, Matt knows money and how to manage it. He has a BS in accounting and at one time worked for a large accounting firm. I can guarantee you that Matt and the other money gurus at Holiday World and KDC went over the numbers many many times before pulling the trigger on this expansion.

 

^^ Similar to every other successful park/chain in the country. I believe there are 10 X as many people talking about Holiday World actually having the money over not having it... Of course they have the money to build the project they're building. I know speculations get boring down to the stupidest conversations right before an announcement, but this is just silly to say the park doesn't have enough money and/or keep saying they do over and over...

[OneOfTheWills]

It's the internet, so I suppose we must argue about everything.

 

Must? No. Do we. Sadly, yes.

 

I can't believe that the statement that a park like Holiday World potentially expending $18M on a single ride would be an atypically and unusually high expenditure is a controversial statement, but apparently it is...

 

Not really controversial just extremely pointless and borderline annoying at this point because it does nothing to further the conversation. We've ran this endless loop of "They can't," "Yes they can," "How can they?" "They just can," a few weeks ago. How about the financial situation, black or red, doesn't matter for the time being at least until we know the price tag. The park is building it. I don't have to worry about (and don't want to read through the pointless arguments of) whether or not it was a financially smart choice or not. Since we don't know HW's income, account balances, or the price of the ride let's just focus on what we do know; They are building a roller coaster.

[kyleparks77]

^ this

[LogBur]

It's the internet, so I suppose we must argue about everything.

Heide Park is one the biggest parks in Germany. It has over 2 million visitors in 2001 and was part of both Tussauds and Merlin corporate groups, so it's not really a fair comparison.

 

Damn straight.

 

Heide Park's attendance was 1.3 million in 2012 and they haven't crested 2 million in many years. Aren't their most recent numbers more relevant to their investment potential?

 

In all seriousness, I understand what you are alluding to about that park drawing larger numbers before and perhaps being able to lean on its corporate groups in an attempt to rekindle past success - I'm just being a contrarian.

 

Perhaps something like Piraten at Djurs is a better comparison. That park ostensibly built Piraten (probably $13-16MM) back in 2008 to aid in its growth, and along with other expansions, it seems to be working. Holiday World is likely thinking that a marquee steel coaster attraction from a reliable, world-class manufacturer will put them on a better growth trajectory.

 

It will be interesting to watch Knoebel's and Holiday World next year - two family owned parks adding steel to what are essentially wood coaster collections. I assume each park will see a nice bump when all is said and done.

[zdub]

What is with this "One.Big.Thing." that's been tossed around(sorry about the pun there..)?

[ZeroGravity55]

^ Well if you haven't noticed, HW will be announcing a new attraction on July 24th. It has just been the main point of discussion on about the last 120 pages on this thread. It's kind of a big deal. Anyways, the "one.big.thing." comes from this holiblog post, where the park basically said this expansion is one big ride, not multiple rides.

 

Sorry for double posting, but I'm going next Thursday (7/24/14.) Any tips for navigating the park? Give me an assigned order of rides if you'd like to!

 

If you're going to be getting a locker, then I would go get that first. After that, you'll probably have enough time for one ride before the waterpark opens, maybe two if you're lucky. I suggest hitting The Voyage first, as it typically runs better in the morning. As soon as the waterpark opens, get dressed and walk very fast to Wildebeest and and Mammoth. I suggest hitting Wildebeest first, given it has lower capacity than Mammoth. After that, hit all the slides you want in the waterpark. If you get done with the waterpark by 2 p.m., you can head back to the dry side and probably get multiple rides on whatever you want to ride, seeing the majority of the people will have filed into the waterpark by then. If you're staying for the announcement that night, I suggest getting night rides on The Raven and Voyage as both those rides are completely different beasts in the dark.

[JamesMC]

I started brainstorming.......

 

What do you need to spend 66 days at sea (outside of Beer....I am sure HW is not calling their new ride "Beer" or "Ale" or "Kegger" for that matter.)?

 

Two things:

 

Wind

Water

 

Sky is blue

Water is blue

 

What follows ships around for 66 days?

 

"Seabirds"

 

What color are some of their eggs? Teal (a kind of blue and also a kind of seabird called a teal)

http://me.usharbors.com/image-gallery/spring-maine-seabirds-and-beauty-camouflage

 

My bet and my .02 a "Flying" coaster or a "Winged" coaster.............

 

[RyanTPM]

The red track doesn't seem to match up with any new type anymore, as the different rail ties aren't consistent on all the pieces. Still could be for this project though.

[ZeroGravity55]

^ I suggested this yesterday based on the 66 days at sea campaign photo that the teal track sitting at the B&M plant is for HW, because teal is the main color in that photo. ^^ He seems to have presented a bit more evidence that this might be true. I'm guessing that the red track is for the other dive machine going to Europe

[RyanTPM]

^That track is of an invert/flyer so i wouldn't think it's for this project, nothing seems to hint towards any of those types. However, with the color in the photo it might be. Although, again, i wouldn't think the color in the picture is hinting towards the color of the coaster.

[The Geek Mojo]

Okay, I got on board with the whole, "Holiday World is getting a B&M" idea...But not so sure anymore. Can you still buy a B&M for $18 million anymore with inflation and all? I think B&M's cheapest coasters are their Dive Coasters. Maybe it's a dive.

[JonnyRCT3]

^Please keep in mind that whenever a park releases monetary figures it is the total investment. Not simply the cost of the materials (the coaster) from the supplier. Construction for large projects (such as a roller coaster) tend to be pricey. Not only do they need to pay B&M for designing the ride, they also pay up for the manufacturing and transportation of ALL materials related to the ride whatsoever. Then there is the actual construction, including equipment and paying the workers. You would also need to include all the numerous other third-party contractors to get a rough figure of what the total investment would be.

Edited July 15, 2014 by JonnyRCT3

[Shavethewhales]

Can you still buy a B&M for $18 million anymore with inflation and all?

 

Yes. Again, let's not worry about the cost anymore.

 

Personally, I really love Wildfire at SDC, and if this coaster is anything like that it will be a hit. Huge airtime filled drop, giant smooth inversions, and strong laterals? Easy home run and crowd favorite. I think we sometimes get too caught up in looking for the next big new thing with steel coasters, when there's a renaissance just waiting to happen where good, thoughtful overall design will trump gimmicks - just like what has more-or-less happened with wood coasters.