The Geek Mojo Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I don't understand why everyone is certain this is a B&M? You should try reading some of the thread. No one is certain but the footings being poured are identical to those of Banshee and Gatekeeper with no word from anyone that other manufacturers use the same style of footing. If Holiday World got an invert coaster, that would be totally lame. And wasn't there something a while back saying that this was going to be around the $13 million range? B&M doesn't make coasters for $13 million. I could be wrong, but I remember hearing that somewhere. It would be lame if they received B&M's most intense ride model? Also, no one knows how much money the park is investing for 2015. They spent $13.5 million in 2006 - their largest expansion to date and we have word from the park that this expansion will be larger. No complaints here...The larger the better. I look forward to whatever it is as long as it's not another invert. And when I say lame, I mean copy what another park has done close to you. Banshee is a great ride, hell all B&M inverts are great...But I don't want to see HW copy KI. They need something more than an invert. And I have read the thread, but it's still not enough to convince me it's going to be a B&M. Hell, it could be a third water coaster for all we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyleparks77 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 ^ no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravity55 Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 And I have read the thread, but it's still not enough to convince me it's going to be a B&M. Hell, it could be a third water coaster for all we know. If you have evidence that could disprove that this is a B&M (other than the fact that is has not been announced), then what you've just said might have a little tread. Until someone can bring forth this evidence, I think we're safe at arguing which B&M model Holiday World is getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkjunkie Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Not trying to be funny, but I'm voting launched Floorless. Closest Floorless would be what? Dominator.. Hydra maybe? Floorless will help sell a "no land" theme. Just my two cents. Not sold on it, but hoping it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcjp Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 ^If it were a launched B&M I would like it to be a floorless. I know their sit-downs are more intense but I feel that's just because they were build earlier and not because of the type itself, so if they managed a launched floorless with sit-down like intensity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsasamccormick Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I haven't had a chance to chime in yet, but I have been actively reading up on this thread and the 66 days at sea website! I'm really excited to see that Holiday World is finally getting a new roller coaster. I'm really surprised that with the success of the Voyage it took so long to build another coaster. I was surprised there wasn't a coaster built around 2011-2012, but the focus that was placed onto the water park was worthwhile in my opinion. I've always loved following coaster construction. Seeing something as small as the land clearing at the start of Kings Island's season last year to the Banshee now is just amazing. I'm going to take a minute and comment on the B&M discussion. I have always enjoyed coasters made by B&M, and I don't understand what isn't to love about them. I think that we really forget they are considered the Mercedes Benz of coasters (I myself forgot that analogy until I watched the video posted in this thread). I find myself slightly confused at the people who say they aren't excited about the possibilty Holiday World is adding a coaster made by them. Sure there is the never ending argument that their coasters lack intensity or the company lacks the willingness to take chances (as compared to other manufactures). However, i think that we may be seeing a change inside B&M. It wasn't until Leviathan that they changed their 230' height that they built at for years. And after riding Banshee, I would find it hard to believe that people would say their newer rides aren't intense. That ride is almost too intense for me, it is simply amazing. B&M has everything Holiday World could ask for. A proven safety record, nearly guaranteed reliability, and the ability to seat four to a row on most of their rides, which could add to the family appeal.Their latest rides, in my opinion, have been amazing. I open my arms wide to the fact that Holiday World could be adding a B&M. The only thing that really makes me second guess a B&M would simply be the cost of the ride. I know that so far we know the budget is somewhere around 13.5 million or more (please don't quote me on that). However, I do believe that their newer, larger rides generally range from 22-28 million, which is a number that I can't see Holiday World dropping on a single coaster. Doing some more research, I noticed that RCDB lists SheiKra as costing 13.5 million, which generally surprised me. I can't begin to fathom the style of coaster they are building, but I don't think a dive coaster shouldn't be completely ruled out. Granted, as I type that out I begin to second guess myself on it being a dive coaster. Who knows. I can't wait in the days to come for our guess to be answered. I cast doubt on the fact that this could be a new design, or something that hasn't been completely proven to work. After Pilgrim's Plunge, it just doesn't seem like the smartest thing. Then again, I am a nobody when it comes to their decision on what is coming. I am hopeful this new ride will embrace the area left vacant by PP, so that the area doesn't seem to be missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil009 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 It's important to remember that this is most likely going to be threaded through the woods, and since this isn't Cedar Fair or Six Flags, it'll probably cut a pretty narrow path just like Voyage does. To me that excludes their next-gen invert, wing coasters, and dive coaster (dive coasters are too short anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Geek Mojo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 And I have read the thread, but it's still not enough to convince me it's going to be a B&M. Hell, it could be a third water coaster for all we know. If you have evidence that could disprove that this is a B&M (other than the fact that is has not been announced), then what you've just said might have a little tread. Until someone can bring forth this evidence, I think we're safe at arguing which B&M model Holiday World is getting. Alright, alright...you people win. I'll join in on the B&M theory. I was planning on a trip to HW next month but now thinking twice about going now and saving the trip for next year. I usually try to ride all the new B&M coasters when they first come out because I love them so much. It'll be super freaking awesome if HW does indeed get a B&M next year because that'll give me two to ride next year, Carowinds and HW. Since I'm a believer now, I'm thinking it'll definitely use PP's splashdown pool and be like Sheikra or Griffon...or possibly like Diamondback but I seriously doubt that being so close to KI. So, it's going to be a Dive coaster. You heard it here first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 ^^^You are correct in saying that Shiekra costed 13.5 million, but that was in 2005, 10 years before this coaster is set to open. You never took the principle of inflation into consideration. Sheikra today would cost around 16.5 million, and that is over budget for the small park. Unless B&M is giving out some sort of discount or something, that wouldn't work. I'm starting to think that we could see a family coaster of some sorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogBur Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 ^Sigh... Holiday World spent $13.5 million in 2006 on Voyage and Thanksgiving. They have indicated that next year's expansion will be the largest in park history. Try to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 But how much more can they really spend is the question? They aren't a large chain park than can jut throw away money. I'm not saying that they are in a crisis or something, but even a million dollars over budget could mean trouble. Edit: I hope that my post doesn't sound incoherent but I'm just trying to piece together some clues. B&M isn't exactly cheap, and it would be a tight squeeze for the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogBur Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I think you are severely underestimating the profitability of a park that draws well over a million visitors a year. They seem to be growing intelligently and after years of investing in Splashin' Safari, they seem poised to make a big addition to the dry side. I wouldn't rule anything out at this point, but the current construction site points to a fairly lengthy B&M coaster of indeterminate model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGarbo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 But how much more can they really spend is the question? They aren't a large chain park than can jut throw away money. I'm not saying that they are in a crisis or something, but even a million dollars over budget could mean trouble. You've just addressed with investments like this are so incredibly important to do right. Parks cannot have things like this fail on them. If you watch the Coaster Net documentary on Outlaw Run you see the CEO of Herschend talk about how it was one of the biggest risks he's taken at any of his properties (which they have over 20 of) and how it took years to decide and implement on. The massive PR campaign that Paula has began and will continue to expand on once the ride is announced isn't just for fun, it's necessary: They need a ROI. Talking about Herschend again there's a reason that they sued Huss for the failed Timber Tower: Even something as simple as a flat ride can cause serious financial implications and needs to be addressed. This brings us back to the discussion about B&M's: They appear to be one of the safest bets in the coaster industry and have been since the early '90's. Building one basically guarantee's you increased success, even if the theme park fan community grumbles about it. Holiday World has purchased three wooden roller coasters from the same design group (basically) and knows very well about making safe yet bold and effective bets in their expansions. I don't see this expansion as being any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 ^^Very true. I knew that Holiday World was popular, but I never realized that they have attendance figures of over a million. Considering that they may have gotten some return from PP, maybe their budget is a little larger than I originally thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterkid124 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 But how much more can they really spend is the question? They aren't a large chain park than can jut throw away money. I'm not saying that they are in a crisis or something, but even a million dollars over budget could mean trouble. You've just addressed with investments like this are so incredibly important to do right. Parks cannot have things like this fail on them. If you watch the Coaster Net documentary on Outlaw Run you see the CEO of Herschend talk about how it was one of the biggest risks he's taken at any of his properties (which they have over 20 of) and how it took years to decide and implement on. The massive PR campaign that Paula has began and will continue to expand on once the ride is announced isn't just for fun, it's necessary: They need a ROI. Talking about Herschend again there's a reason that they sued Huss for the failed Timber Tower: Even something as simple as a flat ride can cause serious financial implications and needs to be addressed. This brings us back to the discussion about B&M's: They appear to be one of the safest bets in the coaster industry and have been since the early '90's. Building one basically guarantee's you increased success, even if the theme park fan community grumbles about it. Holiday World has purchased three wooden roller coasters from the same design group (basically) and knows very well about making safe yet bold and effective bets in their expansions. I don't see this expansion as being any different. You worded your response very well, and expanded on my idea tremendously. This, although off topic, brings me back to my home park and our dilemma. I'll make it short but sweet. Herschend wants to put an RMC in Darien Lake, but ownership doesn't want to take the risk on the park because everything is in pretty bad shape. But back to HW, this is very important that the park does this right if they are going to build big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Turbo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 So much drama, in both the thread and journal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGarbo Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 So much drama, in both the thread and journal! Yes, this is one of the most exciting build ups we've had to a ride announcement ever! I think what makes it better is that deep down we know that the actual ride is going to live up to just about every expectation, which makes it even more exciting since we have no clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneOfTheWills Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Not only has HW brought in over a million visitors a year (and for more than a couple years now, mind you) HW has also had expansion plans for decades. There's a reason why the park has focused on Splashin' Safari for so many years. Water rides bring in quick attendance. The amount of money that comes into the park on a daily basis, let alone weekly or monthly or almost a decade since Voyage was started, would surprise a lot of people. I have no doubts this is as massive as the PR campaign is making it out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondbacker27 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Didn't Kentucky Kingdom afford a large B&M? Didn't Hard Rock Park? They did fine for years, they were independent parks. Holiday World will do fine. They wouldn't buy it if they didn't have the resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravity55 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Just to be factually correct, HW has been over 1 million visters for 7 years now. 8 if they do so again this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerstlaueringvar Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Is it just me or buying a B&M when you have a tight budget is kind of too luxurious? I get it when Cedar Point spend $30 million on Gatekeeper to decorate the front of the park but Holiday World can find some other companies that worth the price. For example, a larger version of Lightning Run or an S&S launch coaster. If they want inversions, Gerstlauer Infinity coaster is, IMO, better than B&M loopers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravity55 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 ^ Again, in HW's case, you really can't put a price on reliability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkjunkie Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 You also have to look at it this way. For what Holiday World spent on Voyage and the Thanksgiving section, it was a hell of a deal. Since then, they have added on with all water attractions. Now I know that Mammoth, Wildebeast and PP werent "cheap", but they also werent ultra expensive. So think about it. Since Thansgiving/ Voyage opened, 8 years ago, the park hits 1 million visitors every year, thats not far behind SFSTL, but with less operating days and hours and less staff at lower wages. HW's season passes are much more expensive than SFSTL also. So think about the money being pulled in over the years and the money being saved on not putting in large over priced rides every year.... you have a large sum of money to play with. I would not be surprised if the total bill on all of the 2015 expansion is over $20 million, but at the same time, something tells me HW is getting another "good deal"..... who knows they COULD be spending $20 million and getting $25 to $30 million worth of product, especially if this is a prototype or "new style" coaster. Sometimes companies give a park a deal to "show off" their first of a kind ride to other buyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolidayWorldFTW Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 20 million in expansion costs would not surprise me one bit at all. I think people are under estimating HW and the Koch family in general... Especially when it comes to resources. They don't watch what the spend because they HAVE to, they do it because it's good business sense most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCF Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 I'm going to chime in on Holiday World not spending so much for such a small park. Lagoon's biggest purchase was wicked at $10 million in 2007. They barely get a million a year since then, as their attendance has gone down since Wicked's initial opening. They are building a completely unique coaster that they are manufacturing themselves which will be the biggest expense they have ever done. The ballpark price is anywhere from $13 to $18 million. It could even be $20 million which is double what they just spent 8 years before the opening of the ride. I highly believe that if Lagoon can pull off what they are pulling off right now, Holiday World could easily pour tons of money on a B&M prototype with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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