Holiday World (HW) Discussion Thread

[ZeroGravity55]

^ Holiday World takes care of the Voyage, it's very evident at the beginning of every season. Those trains just tear the track apart over the course of the season. Last year was the first year I went in May, June, and August. The ride I got in May was great, the one in June was rougher, and August gave me a hell of a back massage and my sister a jarring headache.

[GayCoasterGuy]

With newer engineering programs creating more aggressive and incredible rides, wood just has its limits. The longest lasting wood coasters were simple out and backs, with minimal curves, except for a handful.

 

Very good point

 

Hopefully train design will continue to evolve into better tracking, more cushioned seating, but that is to be seen. Long gone are the days of NAD trains with big cushey seats that soak up the brunt of the roughness.

 

More reason the few we have left are so special... and for those of us who like that old school type ride, to enjoy those rides whenever we can.

[cal1br3tto]

Thanks for the responses. I was just wondering since the only wooden coaster I've ridden with Millennium Flyers was American Thunder. But SFSTL definitely keeps that track smooth, so that is probably why I like them so much.

I like the MFs way better on American Thunder than on any other GCI. Most MF lap bars auto-staple either in the station or during the ride, which is often uncomfortable. While the bars on AT work the same way, I almost always have a little more room for comfort. It's only stapled me painfully once or twice. Plus, it has the perfect airtime-filled layout to take advantage of this anomaly--same mildness as most other GCIs, but with more and better pops of air.

 

What a shame about the Timberliners. I've always been a proponent, though my hellish rides on Hades 360 did reveal some shortcomings that I wouldn't have guessed after riding Wooden Warrior.

[Koasterking48]

I'll be at Rock the World next Saturday and will give "fresh" opinion of the ride's current state, but this season hasn't been the worst we have seen The Voyage. May was pretty "smooth" but July got worse as I had expected. However, the worst times I can think of were 2010 and 2011 when it was very rough (nowhere near Hades though). Robb is very correct about HW just doing a full retrack, though Topper Track would really be nice. Honestly, I have no clue what the park will do next.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Koasterking48

[Wes]

Also who knows if three years down the line Outlaw Run won't be rough as well?

[adamico2]

Thanks for the responses. I was just wondering since the only wooden coaster I've ridden with Millennium Flyers was American Thunder. But SFSTL definitely keeps that track smooth, so that is probably why I like them so much.

I like the MFs way better on American Thunder than on any other GCI. Most MF lap bars auto-staple either in the station or during the ride, which is often uncomfortable. While the bars on AT work the same way, I almost always have a little more room for comfort. It's only stapled me painfully once or twice. Plus, it has the perfect airtime-filled layout to take advantage of this anomaly--same mildness as most other GCIs, but with more and better pops of air.

 

I found that Thunderhead didn't auto-staple either, like, say, Kentucky Rumbler.

[cal1br3tto]

^Yeah, I had room to enjoy the satisfying amounts of airtime on Thunderhead. I heard one of us randomly got a lot of space on it once last year, but I wasn't able to replicate that myself. It seems like a couple of the worse ones are Roar West (the roughness not helping one bit) and Prowler (making stacking very un-fun).

 

Voyage was a fairly early wooden coaster for me when I rode it in 2010, and while I'd already ridden a number of smooth woodies, I didn't find it to be that much rougher than some others that people don't usually complain about. Plenty of woodies have knocked me around or left me with a headache, so Voyage didn't stand out too much for that.

[adamico2]

^This is coming from someone who got nearly $100 worth of rides on the Coney Island Cyclone in one weekend. Not that I don't agree; riding the Voyage in 2011, it was quite rough but not to the point of no longer being enjoyable. I still rank it at #4 on my wood list, even if I do need to get off and take a break after about three rides.

[Vonni]

I guess I'm part of the apparently small group of enthusiasts that feel wooden coasters are supposed to be rough, and I like it that way. Also, I'm going to go all fan boy on you for a minute...I do not want RMC anywhere near The Voyage! This is one coaster I DO NOT want converted! Thats my piece.

[imagineerz]

I guess I'm part of the apparently small group of enthusiasts that feel wooden coasters are supposed to be rough, and I like it that way. Also, I'm going to go all fan boy on you for a minute...I do not want RMC anywhere near The Voyage! This is one coaster I DO NOT want converted! Thats my piece.

 

I don't think that the enthusiasts that want RMC to renovate it don't like rough rides, it's just that we can't stand when said rides become brutal and not re-rideable (that's the key word right there). The more that I think about the pleas for RMC, it's really a plea for PTC to stop making trains. I know that it sounds really harsh, but I think that if PTCs weren't used on The Voyage in the first place, it wouldn't be in the condition it is now. In essence, a bit of roughness isn't bad, but being forced to ride defensively really detracts from the overall ride experience.

[ZeroGravity55]

I think the only thing that disappoints me is the fact that Will Koch's last project ultimately failed. However, I don't think Will would have wanted the park to continue with the project if it wasn't going to work. I consider The Voyage to be Will's ultimate masterpiece, considering he had such a big hand in the design. I hope the park finds a way to get the ride running in top form for a long time. Whether that's a full re-track, topper track, or new trains. I consider the layout and design of the ride to be one of the best in the world and you be hard pressed to find better terrain for a coaster. I can't think of one coaster that has a mid-course break run 10 feet off the ground, but it sits a good 100 feet above the station. The potential is there, hopefully the park can find the right solution and keep Will's masterpiece running world class for a long time.

[coasterdad]

What's funny about this is when I did a interview with the late Bill Cobb in the 80's sometime. He said that once you get pass the 125ft. mark you start to have problems as the wooden stress tear apart track and structure, PTC does have a proven design car they are just to heavy for to days rides. They really need to look at redesigning there chassis, maybe look at bring back Morgan California coaches with other materials to make them less plastic. PTC does own the designs for those trains, they could take it down to the metal frame and come up with something or there going to be left out on a limb if other train designers come up with something. Way back in the day parks use to pay to have new designs built and now it's the company's fund there own stuff. Another thing is PTC has been building coaster cars for over 100 years. Most others haven't been around 20 years. I think with the Timberliner's were still to unproven to HW that they just chose to stay with what they know. Look at CCI when they tried to do there own train. one set and they said it was to much work and safety rule you have to apply. Also look at the G trains. Legend had them but they beat your lower half (legs) to bits. Im just glad G trains didn't go on Voyage.

[ZeroGravity55]

Every wooden coaster company has their own trains now. TGG's is still unproven, but I love to see it on a big brand new ride. I think the days of PTC producing wooden roller coaster trains are over. Good news is, they'll still get plenty of business doing refurbishment on all the current coaster trains they've got out there.

[Garet]

Also who knows if three years down the line Outlaw Run won't be rough as well?

 

I don't know about el-toro or any of the other intamin woodies but I feel like T express still rides the same to me as when i arrived 4 years ago and apart from its yearly scheduled rehab that has to operate nearly all year round. I know it's not traditional wooden or an RMC coaster but it gives me hope that the RMC coasters and other modern wooden coasters that will be made in the future can be built to ride well for years to come.

[Canobie Coaster]

Also who knows if three years down the line Outlaw Run won't be rough as well?

 

I don't know about el-toro or any of the other intamin woodies but I feel like T express still rides the same to me as when i arrived 4 years ago and apart from its yearly scheduled rehab that has to operate nearly all year round. I know it's not traditional wooden or an RMC coaster but it gives me hope that the RMC coasters and other modern wooden coasters that will be made in the future can be built to ride well for years to come.

 

That was my concern with the RMC coasters, but with their popularity at their respective parks I would assume that they would be well taken care of.

[Buckeye_Ben]

 

Voyage was a fairly early wooden coaster for me when I rode it in 2010, and while I'd already ridden a number of smooth woodies, I didn't find it to be that much rougher than some others that people don't usually complain about. Plenty of woodies have knocked me around or left me with a headache, so Voyage didn't stand out too much for that.

 

This. I rode Voyage in 2010 as well, and I didn't find it that rough at all. It wasn't a ride I could marathon, but that was mainly due to how completely insane the ride is. Of course, this coming from a guy whose home park is Kings Island, not exactly known for smooth woodies, so take that with a grain of salt. I actually thought Raven and especially Legend were much worse (I may have just caught them on a bad day).

 

I'll be the last person to complain if Voyage gets the RMC treatment though.

[chadster]

Seems as if every Gravity Group coaster that I have ridden that has a steel structure has given me terrible headaches, Ravine Flyer II rattled me all night during Leviathon and it's really not that old. Something about a structure not giving and taking with an 'aggressive' design that I can't help but wonder aides in the deterioration of the ride quality. Great White is another prime example.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chadster

[GayCoasterGuy]

Seems as if every Gravity Group coaster that I have ridden that has a steel structure has given me a terrible headaches, Ravine Flyer II rattled me all night during Leviathon and it's really not that old. Something about a structure not giving and taking with an 'aggressive' design that I can't help but wonder aides in the deterioration of the ride quality. Great White is a another prime example.

 

Yup, those steel structured woodies redirect the roughness back into you. Note the Coney Island Cyclone has steel structure for the tall parts, but wood structure for the pull-outs:

 

Not to say the CI Cyclone has been a model of smoothness (it's had ok to great years in my experience)... but those pull-outs would have more *shock* if they were all steel.

[robbalvey]

I guess I'm part of the apparently small group of enthusiasts that feel wooden coasters are supposed to be rough, and I like it that way. Also, I'm going to go all fan boy on you for a minute...I do not want RMC anywhere near The Voyage! This is one coaster I DO NOT want converted! Thats my piece.

There is a HUGE difference between a wooden roller coaster feeling like a wooden roller coaster, and a wooden roller coaster BEATING THE LIVING SH1T OUT OF YOU!!!!

 

I can handle a wooden roller coaster that rides "rough around the edges", but if the types of beatings I've received on The Voyage or Hades 360 is your thing, knock yourself out! (literally!) I won't be riding and I certainly won't be putting my child on the ride!

 

--Robb

[ZeroGravity55]

It has been rumored that the park has 3 big projects for the next 3 years. Lets say that one of them is a steel coaster. Would you rather see the park put off building a steel coaster and commit that money to getting the Voyage fixed? Lets say that they hire RMC and purchase their pre-fab topper track for the whole ride with RMC trains. They would not change the layout or design, just simply replace all the track. Would you rather see that happen to the Voyage or the park add a steel coaster? I know this is all hypothetical, but its something I've been thinking about.

[Wes]

I'd rather see RMC smooth out all three coasters before any steel coasters were added.

[ZeroGravity55]

^ That's what I'm thinking, but I rather they leave Raven alone. I love that ride just the way it is.

 

Edit: I say that because in my 11 years of riding Raven, I've yet to experience what I would consider a "bad ride".

Edited August 18, 2013 by ZeroGravity55

[cfc]

I guess I'm part of the apparently small group of enthusiasts that feel wooden coasters are supposed to be rough, and I like it that way. Also, I'm going to go all fan boy on you for a minute...I do not want RMC anywhere near The Voyage! This is one coaster I DO NOT want converted! Thats my piece.

There is a HUGE difference between a wooden roller coaster feeling like a wooden roller coaster, and a wooden roller coaster BEATING THE LIVING SH1T OUT OF YOU!!!!

 

I can handle a wooden roller coaster that rides "rough around the edges", but if the types of beatings I've received on The Voyage or Hades 360 is your thing, knock yourself out! (literally!) I won't be riding and I certainly won't be putting my child on the ride!

 

--Robb

 

I've never understood the "wooden coasters are supposed to be rough" mentality, either. I think the amazing and smooth airtime you get on rides like Balder and El Toro would change a lot of minds. Leaving a wood coaster with a headache and major spine adjustment is not my idea of "fun."

[Guy T. Koepp]

I don't get what's going on here. Is there some real speculation that RMC may be coming in to do a retracking on Voyage? Or is it just pipe dreaming? Not to bad mouth it in any way, because I think nothing worse could come of that ride if they did a redo. I can vouch for the topper track portions of Tremmors up at Silverwood. They are considerably smoother than the rest of the layout. So I'm all for it. Again, it couldn't get any worse.

[ZeroGravity55]

^ It's speculation/pipe dreaming, nobody has no idea about what is going to be done.