ZeroGravity55 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Good news is, Holiday World listens to the coaster enthusiasts. Hopefully Paula is giving the head brass the overwhelming feedback to get RMC in there and work their magic on The Voyage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapesLie Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I Won't lie I would LOVE to see it get the RMC Treatment! I just don't want to get my hopes up! Although it may be worth it due to maintenance issues alone! It's really hard to say whats going to happen. Honestly Holiday World may not even know what they plan to do yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philrad71 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 4 words. I Trust Holiday World. Â I have 3 words. Rocky Mountain It. Â Agreed. Â While I loved the water park, the cleanliness & overall atmosphere of the park, it wouldn't be quite enough to get me back there in the near future (unless I was on a TPR road trip). RMC for the Voyage on the other hand would definitely seal the deal on a return trip down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewRnR Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Wasn't there rumors of Rocky Mountain's involvement a few years back when Holiday World's name was spotted on their client list? I believe Holiday World confirmed they did have some conversations but that nothing was coming from it... Sounds like a perfect time for some more conversations. Â I can only imagine parks are taking notice that they can have Rocky Mountain come out and give new life to rides and save on future maintence vs buying an relatively unproven train design and as we have seen with Hades where track was replaced (final helix comes to mind) Timberliners don't stop the need for regular upkeep. Â As I said in the Mt Olympus thread Hades trains seemed to bounce all over the place and the amount of plastic didn't seem to provide a solid design to absorb all the vibrations - I'm no engineer so I'm guessing here but I'm not sure a light design like Timberliners can handle the big forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 4 words. I Trust Holiday World. Â I have 3 words. Rocky Mountain It. Let me throw another bizarre curveball at this discussion.... Â Rocky Mountain is only one company, and every company has their capacity limits of how much work they can produce in one year. Â We've seen other wood coaster companies offer new products including producing their own trains (Millennium Flyers, Timberliners, etc), new track features (90 degree turns, inversions, high-fives, etc), so how much longer do you think it might be until one of these companies starts taking a close look at what RMC is doing (and even Intamin for that matter), and starts to offer their own version of the topper track or even take a stab at RMC's track style? Â Intamin has had great success with their wooden track style. Cordes not so much, but RMC has certainly risen out with a product that everyone really has fallen in love with. Â Like it or not, at some point, some of the other wood coaster companies might have to follow suit with their own version. (I'm sure a little bit of the inspiration for what RMC is doing must have come from them building El Toro and T-Express?) Â So it makes you wonder what will happen next... Â --Robb "Isn't there a part of you that would LOVE to see all wooden coasters ride like an Intamin or RMC?" Alvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 ^ I think we're at the parks where parks have to go with one of the newer style wooden coasters from RMC or Intamin that can be a little crazier but don't require crazy maintenance...or you go with a GCI which are not as thrilling. The Dinn/CCI/TGG model of building crazy wooden coasters using older methods has now proven to be a long term failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayCoasterGuy Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I could be wrong, but would adding topper track create too stiff of a riding surface? Remember, Voyage is steel-structured. Those woodies sometimes seem to amplify the potholes, etc., because there is not as much give in the structure under the track. Â There are other traditional wood track solutions here. Voyage was glass-smooth the first year (most woodies are!), so there is the proof. There are also other trains for wood coasters out there... The PTCs on the ride are still semi-frankensteined designs (even thought they were originally built like they are) with the heavy ratchet lap bar mechanisms in them... very heavy cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Is there a single old-school designed wooden coaster over 75 feet tall that hasn't become a maintenance issue or extremely rough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayCoasterGuy Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Is there a single old-school designed wooden coaster over 75 feet tall that hasn't become a maintenance issue or extremely rough? Â Phoenix. With all the new hot coasters that have come and gone, Phoenix has never left the top 5 and pretty much any list. Â And I'll have to say the CP Blue Streak was close-perfection as well, up until 1995. To the point there was rarely even new wood needed. Look at all the wacked-out extra supports on it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Oh, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some new developments from other wooden coaster manufacturers at this year's IAPPA. Perhaps Gravity Group can put an inversion on a coaster that isn't trying to kill you with the rest of its layout. Â In short, I think Holiday World has plenty of options when it comes to doing something to Voyage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravity55 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I think we're at the point where the other wooden coaster companies are going to have to come up with their own track design to meet the modern demands of wooden roller coasters. If they don't, they're going to probably find themselves out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) Is there a single old-school designed wooden coaster over 75 feet tall that hasn't become a maintenance issue or extremely rough? Â Phoenix. With all the new hot coasters that have come and gone, Phoenix has never left the top 5 and pretty much any list. I think you mis-understood Wes. I think he was asking if there have been any "modern" (like within the last 20 years) woodies that are over 75 feet tall that haven't become a maintenance nightmare for parks? Â Phoenix doesn't really count as it was built in 1947. Â --Robb "Unless I totally mis-read was Wes was saying..." Alvey Edited August 17, 2013 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayCoasterGuy Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 ^Ahhh... gotcha. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was going to say Cyclops, but even that ride has been neglected to the point of pothole city (on the big drop anyway.) Â ^^Newer woodies have really pushed things in terms of speed and intensity of forces. Why not stick with great old designs - Phoenix, Thunderbolt - heck, those rides are ancient, run GREAT and almost EVERYONE who goes to those parks LOVES those rides. Remember, coasters aren't always designed with coaster nerds preferences in mind... Personally, I love the old designs ... and you don't have to worry about the necessity to staple you in a seat. The forces are reasonable and you get TRUE air time (as opposed to "uplift forces" - see El Toro.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) Also.... Voyage was glass-smooth the first year And no. No it wasn't. I rode Voyage about 6 weeks after it opened and it was rough even then. Sure, nowhere NEAR as bad as it was when I rode it in 2010, but even opening year I couldn't do more than 3 rides back to back without having to take a break. Â That ride was NEVER "glass-smooth", I'm sorry. Â --Robb "Unless your basis for comparison is Hades 360..." Alvey Edited August 17, 2013 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayCoasterGuy Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 ^I guess it was probably smoother when I rode it during HWN than it was a few weeks later. Yeah, "smooth as glass" is not a good way to describe most traditional (track-wise) woodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Warrior Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Would Millennium Flyer trains work on the ride? Â I don't know that much about coaster trains, all I know is that Millenium Flyers train are extremely comfy. But I don't know how they'd work on a rough ride? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 There are still some traditional woodies that I'd consider very smooth... Jack Rabbit, Phoenix, even SFGAm's Viper was running insanely smooth. Voyage was never smooth. It was always insanely "aggressive" and fairly rough in spots. Yes, the smoothest rides on it I ever took was during that opening year and those rides only seemed to degrade over the years. Â It went from being a coaster I could ride 2-3 times in a row a couple times a day, to a ride that I wished I hadn't even ridden once during a visit to the park. Â --Robb "Raven is still my favorite coaster at Holiday World!" Alvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFOGdude25 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 ^^Well considering they didn't seem to help too much on Wildcat and Gwazi, Millennium Flyers don't seem like the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 Would Millennium Flyer trains work on the ride? They didn't help Gwazi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Peck Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 This may come off as blasphemy: Â With newer engineering programs creating more aggressive and incredible rides, wood just has its limits. The longest lasting wood coasters were simple out and backs, with minimal curves, except for a handful. Everybody wants to go back and ride the Crystal Beach Cyclone, but I'm sure after 3 weeks of operating, it was as rough as all hell. Â I really think wood coaster companies should stick with more flowing and graceful designs (Shivering Timbers, Silver Comet, Lightning Racer) than super-aggressive circuits like The Boss, Medusa and others in that category, because they may be great the first year or two, but you can't keep re-tracking them every year. Â Hopefully train design will continue to evolve into better tracking, more cushioned seating, but that is to be seen. Long gone are the days of NAD trains with big cushey seats that soak up the brunt of the roughness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodie Warrior Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Thanks for the responses. I was just wondering since the only wooden coaster I've ridden with Millennium Flyers was American Thunder. But SFSTL definitely keeps that track smooth, so that is probably why I like them so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravity55 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I like to see the park purchase a set of RMC trains for the ride and start putting on topper track a little at a time. I think the the earliest will see anything done will be 2015, but whatever the park chooses to do, I'll be supportive and understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) ^ To be fair, no one knows if RMC trains are a solution either. There is only one set of them on a ride that was specifically designed with them in mind. Everyone thought GCI trains would "fix" Wildcat and Gwazi, and they didn't really help (other than make the trains a bit more comfortable), and Timberliners didn't help the rough sections of Hades. Â BUT. Both of those styles of trains work AMAZING for rides that were designed with them in mind. Â I really think that if a park wants to REALLY fix a ride, they need to do a full re-track over ONE off season, and then maybe try putting on a different train. But who's to say that new train won't tear of the ride just as much as a PTC and in 3 years you'll wind up having to do a complete re-track again? Edited August 17, 2013 by robbalvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravity55 Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 ^ You make a great point. I don't think the park wants to use the Voyage as a testing lab for another coaster train again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geauga Dog Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Sad to hear how Voyage has deteriorated over the years since it is my favorite wood coaster. I only got to ride it during it's opening year and while it was insane it wasn't smooth. I do remember one of the 90 degree turns having a nastly little jolt on the return portion of the ride. Â I've always had the assumption that Hades 360 isn't as well taken care of as Voyage is since many have reported that there were still rough parts even with the Timberliners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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