Why Looping Coasters Deserve a Separate Top Ten List

[adavis]

Over the past few years, a change in roller coaster rankings has been afoot. Have you noticed? I know The Coaster Critic has, when Montu fell off of the top ten steel coaster list for the annual Golden Ticket Awards, he made mention in a blog post. I’ll admit it, at the time I thought nothing of it, but later, I had a revelation.

 

No one questions the little wooden brother on the block. Aside from possibly The Voyage or El Toro, I think it’s entirely safe to say that there is not a single wooden coaster in the world that would be “top ten” if the rankings were ten and done. I think it’s also tough to say that either ride, as wonderful as they are, would be a shoe in for that list.

 

I know what you’re thinking, ‘that’s not fair, the construction rigors are limited, wood is different than steel’, blah blah blah. There is a separate top ten list for wood coasters because they are entirely different animals, right? Not inferior, just different, with a different playing field, different rules, and a different ride. Here’s my question, why are looping coasters any different?

 

I propose a toast to the looping coaster, and with that toast, a separate top ten ranking for our occasionally upside down friends. Not because of what they cannot do, like wood, but because, just like wood, of what they can do because they are different.

 

Can a wood coaster be used as a chassis for a four hundred foot tall strata coaster? Maybe, but you won’t see this guy on it. What a wood coaster can do though, and I’m talking about those in the top ten, is give a ride so unique from steel, so infinitely different, that no one thinking rationally conceives twice about ranking the two separately. Who among us feels that a coaster with inversions is similar to their favorite hyper?

 

Doesn’t matter, Arrow proved over and over again that the two are on disparate territory, and still living examples like New York, New York’s terrible Manhattan Express function as a history lesson. Ask anyone who went to Kennywood when Steel Phantom was introduced, should a hyper coaster have loops? The answer for the vast majority of folks is going to be no, and finding that out cost everyone involved a fair chunk of change.

 

So, here is the question posed. Since history has proven that different coaster types deserve separate rankings, why shouldn’t those coasters that choose to go upside down be afforded their own rankings?

 

I can already hear the smart guy in the back, ‘What’s next Aric, rankings for best flyer and best inverted? How about best floorless or sitdown looper?’ To that guy, I say hogwash. These coasters are few enough by type that I feel they can be lumped together, just as wood and steel were once lumped together. Don’t get me wrong, if Ohio has another spendy war based on who can build the tallest flyer, I say we support it. Until that day though, let’s have a third top ten, a new top ten, a top ten just for coasters that go upside down. Imagine one like this, partially hypothetical, as I’ve not ridden all of these:

 

1. Maverick

 

2. Tatsu

 

3. Montu

 

4. Kraken

 

5. Fahrenheit

 

6. Kumba

 

7. Alpengeist

 

8. X2

 

9. Manta

 

10. Griffon

 

Good list, right? Ready to challenge it? Good! That’s the point of what I’m saying, we are letting good loopers go by the wayside, and if we don’t acknowledge their awesomeness, they will begin to dwindle. We aren’t arguing enough! Remember when The Coaster Critic put on his flame proof suit for his still positive, yet slightly negative Millennium Force review? I want to argue like that about loopers, and if you don’t agree with my selections, tell me why I’m wrong, and what yours would be.

 

One of my most exciting moments from last season was the first ride on Diamondback, it was wonderful, and I couldn’t wait to see how the general public felt it stacked up amongst its brethren. The red rattler landed firmly in seventh place, and ironically, by earning its ranking, Montu, the last looper on the list, got the boot.

 

Parks listen to the general public more than they do you or I, but has a park ever been embarrassed for being able to brag about a new coaster being proven to be among the best coasters in the world? Let’s not blame Intamin, B&M, Premier, Vekoma or any of their fellows for being engaged in making looping coasters, and let’s not have parks suffer for buying them. I love a B&M hyper as much as anybody, but parks don’t need two.

 

So why don’t we, the hardcore coaster fanatics, demand a separate rankings, a place for designers and park owners to see the true fruits of their labors, and maybe in the process, slow down all that world’s “steepest drop” style of nonsense. A top ten list for coasters that go upside down even once makes sense, and it allows for a real amount of bragging rights, not an entitlement, a place for the real top ten loopers to do battle in our hearts, and a place to be officially honored.

 

The preceding article appears at www.thecoastercritic.com , there is a poll there as well. If you have interest, feel free to follow the link to participate. I look forward to your responses.

[larrygator]

I think it’s entirely safe to say that there is not a single wooden coaster in the world that would be “top ten” if the rankings were ten and done. I think it’s also tough to say that either ride, as wonderful as they are, would be a shoe in for that list.

 

At least 8 of my Top 10 coasters are wooden, including my Top 5. I'm sure others out there agree with me. It's all a matter of preference, I personally don't care how someone I don't know ranks as their Top 10. Only my Top 10 and those who have similar tastes matter to me.

 

If you really want to stress about the Top 10 loopers, look on Mitch's list and see where they fall.

 

No one is letting loopers go by the wayside.

[DOCTOR DOOM!!!]

I think this MAY be a good idea for Mitch Hawker's poll. Screw amusement today and other polls cause they seem too biased to me. Seeing as their are so many steel coasters, separating the loopers MIGHT not be a bad idea seeing as looper and non looper do tend to give very different rides usually, as different as a steelie and a woodie arguably.

[bgwfreak777]

So if I follow your logic, we need to have a seperate poll for every type of steel coaster.

 

Why just loopers?

 

Why not mine trains? Why not bobsleds?

 

I think Mitch's poll is just fine like it is.

 

Montu and Afterburn are still in my top 10 steel list and are both loopers.

[noticias24]

I have to agree with Larrygator here. I do enjoy seeing how the Golden Ticket and Mitch's Poll end up ranking their coasters, but I am commited to my own list. What I want to say is that if the majority of people think that a hyper is better than a looper then its their choice to do so. For example, in my case, I would not rank a wooden coaster over a steel coaster in most cases, obvious exceptions here (SLCs, etc), even if they're a great and amazing ride like Voyage.

 

It's just a matter of opinion, maybe most of the people just enjoy a coaster with no inversions than one with inversions, I just think that separating the steel coasters between looping and non-looping could be a little too much.

 

Really interesting article by the way, I completely understand your point of view, its just a little different than mine

[ginzo]

Aside from possibly The Voyage or El Toro, I think it’s entirely safe to say that there is not a single wooden coaster in the world that would be “top ten” if the rankings were ten and done.

 

I'm not sure why you think this.

 

http://www.ushsho.com/steelrollercoasterpollresults2009.htm

 

"Favorite Wood Coaster" outclassed the top steel rides again this year. It would have finished 4th, losing only comparisons to some European and Australian Steel Coasters in countries where most of the local wood coasters are not as highly regarded. However, the most interesting result is that "Favorite Wood Coaster" beat each of the top three steel coasters by large margins among mutual-riders. The opposite is true in the wood poll as "Favorite Steel" lost by healthy margins to each of the top three wooden coasters.

[angryemobeaver]

As you can see in my signature, I do a separate top 10 for wood & steel. My top 10s (or top 20 I guess) is in all my signatures in all of the forums I post on. On KICentral.com I made a very detailed top that shows my top standups, top flyers, ect...

---------------------------

DropZone99's Database

 

2010 parks: 6

1. Kings Dominion 040210

2. Carowinds: 040310

3. Six Flags Over Georgia: 040410

4. Dollywood: 040510

5. Kings Island: 041710 050810 051410 052110

6. Holiday World: 050110 052210 052610

 

Top 10s

 

STEEL:

1. Intimidator 305 (KD)

2. Maverick (CP)

3. Intimidator (Carowinds)

4. Goliath (SFOG)

5. Volcano (KD)

6. Mystery Mine (Dollywood)

7. Raging Bull (SFGAm)

8. Millennium Force (CP)

9. Top Thrill Dragster (CP)

10. Diamondback (KI)

 

WOOD:

1. Voyage (HW)

2. Cornball Express (IB)

3. Legend (HW)

4. Georgia Cyclone (SFOG)

5. Raven (HW)

6. Boardwalk Bullet (KB)

7. Hurler (Carowinds)

8. Viper (SFGAm)

9. Son of Beast (KI)

10. Thunderhead (Dollywood)

 

FLATS:

1. Drop Zone (KD)

2. Woodstock Gliders (Carowinds)

3. Drop Zone (KI)

4. Drop Zone (Carowinds)

5. Demon Drop (CP)

6. Liberty Launch (HW)

7. Flying Eagles (KD)

8. Superman Tower of Power (SFKK)

9. Crypt (KD)

10. Acrophobia (SFOG)

 

PARKS:

1. Kings Dominion

2. Indiana Beach

3. Holiday World

4. Six Flags Over Georgia

5. Six Flags Great America

6. Carowinds

7. Busch Gardens Africa

8. Dollywood

9. Cedar Point

10. Kings Island

 

Coasters Riden: 110 (79 steel, 31 wood)

Parks: 16

- Kemah Boardwalk

- Six Flags Great America

- Indiana Beach

- Indianapolis Zoo

- Holiday World

- Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom

- Dollywood

- Six Flags Over Georgia

- Kings Island

- Cedar Point

- Busch Gardens Africa

- Old Town

- Islands Of Adventure

- Universal Studios Florida

- Carowinds

- Kings Dominion

 

I plan on going to .... this year....

1. Stricker's Grove

2. Coney Island

3. Indiana Beach (duh)

4. Cedar Point (duh)

5. Six Flags Great America

6. Six Flags St. Louis

7. That Fun Place

8. Kings Island many more times

9. Holiday World a few more times

10. Six Flags Great Adventure hopefully

11. Dorney Park hopefully

12. Knoebel's possibly

 

Rankings...

 

STANDUPS

1. Georgia Scorcher (SFOG)

2. Iron Wolf (SFGAm)

3. Mantis (CP)

4. Vortex (Carowinds)

 

MINETRAINS

1. Adventure Express (KI) (If Lost Coaster of Superstition Mountain Counts, it's #1!)

2. Carolina Goldrusher (Carowinds)

3. Dahlonega Mine Train (SFOG)

4. Cedar Creek Mine Train (CP)

 

B&M Inverts

1. Montu (BGA)

2. Afterburn (Carowinds)

3. Raptor (CP)

4. Batman: The Ride (SFGam)

5. Batman: The Ride (SFOG)

 

GIGAS (lol)

1. Intimidator 305 (KD)

2. Millennium Force (CP)

 

B&M HYPERS

1. Intimidator (Carowinds)

2. Goliath (SFOG)

3. Raging Bull (SFGAm)

4. Diamondback (KI)

 

ARROW LOOPERS

1. Carolina Cyclone (Carowinds)

2. Vortex (KI)

3. Tennessee Tornado (Dollywood)

4. Corkscrew (CP)

5. Demon (SFGAm)

6. Anaconda (KD)

7. Python (BGA)

 

FLYERS

1. Firehawk (KI)

2. Nighthawk (Carowinds)

3. Superman: Ultimate Bore (SFOG)

4. Superman: Ultimate Bore (SFGAm)

 

DROP TOWERS

1. Drop Zone: Stunt Tower (KD)

2. Drop Zone: Stunt Tower (KI)

3. Drop Zone: Stunt Tower (Carowinds)

4. Demon Drop (CP)

5. Liberty Launch (HW)

6. Superman: Tower of Power (SFKK)

7. Acrophobia (SFOG)

8. Power Tower (CP)

9. Doctor Doom's Fearfall (IoA)

10. Kite Eating Tree (KI)

[adavis]

So if I follow your logic, we need to have a seperate poll for every type of steel coaster.

 

Why just loopers?

 

Why not mine trains? Why not bobsleds?

 

I think Mitch's poll is just fine like it is.

 

Montu and Afterburn are still in my top 10 steel list and are both loopers.

 

This is covered in my post, I'm talking about a separate list for all coasters with inversions.

[adavis]

As you can see in my signature, I do a separate top 10 for wood & steel. My top 10s (or top 20 I guess) is in all my signatures in all of the forums I post on. On KICentral.com I made a very detailed top that shows my top standups, top flyers, ect...

 

The standardized rankings all seem to denote separate categories for wood and steel, the issue is that almost every park has loopers, most people enjoy good loopers, and yet there is no top ten list that has a looper on it besides personal ones.

 

This is all well and good for those who have ridden everything, but for those who haven't or who have limited traveling capabilities, it would be nice to have a centralized standard for ranking this type of ride, in order to know which to prioritize.

[rcg19]

Deleted by user

Edited December 29, 2010 by rcg19

[DOCTOR DOOM!!!]

^ I'm all for the mass confusion!!! All kinds of parks would advertise #1 coaster in the world!

[adavis]

Not a bad idea, but I think loopers CAN offer the same things in a ride as non-loopers/hypers and many do.

 

Lets take Maverick for example, it technically has two inversions, but I don't consider it the focus of the ride. In fact, I consider the airtime hills, overbanks and the steep drop the main focus, which makes it hard to rank against other loopers. Still picking on Maverick - - I consider it to be just as different as wooden coasters as it is to something like Tatsu, or even a sit-down looper like Kumba. I Using your logic, that WOULD force us to make another list. . . and another list . . . and another list.

 

Once again, covered in the first post. Maverick is amazing, why is it not in the top ten for steel? Height and inversions.

[Six Flags Enthuseast]

I sort of agree and disagree with this. Allow me to explain.

 

As you have pointed out, coasters with inversions are, in general, a much different experience than coasters with no inversions. To a point, I could almost support a Top 10 List exclusively for loopers.

 

But wouldn't it make things more complicated? 'Wood' and 'Steel' are their own seperate categories. By splitting 'Steel' into 2 categories, it makes things a little harder to keep up with. Eventually, those categories would begin to split themselves up into more and more, and it would just be too confusing.

 

Besides, looping and non-looping is down to personal preference. Do you prefer seeing the world upside down or right-side up? Looping coasters have dominated for a while because their renown force and their different style over non-looping coasters have earned them preference. But, because companies are making much more extreme non-looping coasters, looping coasters are going to have to become competative to stay popular in the market.

 

But, as a lot of polls suggest, some people are beginning to shift towards more forceful, non-inverting coasters. And that's just because they're getting more interesting.

 

So sure, non-looping coasters are way different than looping coasters, but shifting personal preference shouldn't make loopers different enough to deserve thier own Top 10 List.

[cal1br3tto]

In the end my thinking basically boils down to: you can, and that would be fine, but you don't need to. The information is more or less out there. I think what you're saying is that loopers need more attention so that they're preserved and innovation can continue. That may be somewhat valid, but I'm not sure that polls would have much influence on that.

[adavis]

I sort of agree and disagree with this. Allow me to explain.

 

As you have pointed out, coasters with inversions are, in general, a much different experience than coasters with no inversions. To a point, I could almost support a Top 10 List exclusively for loopers.

 

But wouldn't it make things more complicated? 'Wood' and 'Steel' are their own seperate categories. By splitting 'Steel' into 2 categories, it makes things a little harder to keep up with. Eventually, those categories would begin to split themselves up into more and more, and it would just be too confusing.

 

Besides, looping and non-looping is down to personal preference. Do you prefer seeing the world upside down or right-side up? Looping coasters have dominated for a while because their renown force and their different style over non-looping coasters have earned them preference. But, because companies are making much more extreme non-looping coasters, looping coasters are going to have to become competative to stay popular in the market.

 

But, as a lot of polls suggest, some people are beginning to shift towards more forceful, non-inverting coasters. And that's just because they're getting more interesting.

 

So sure, non-looping coasters are way different than looping coasters, but shifting personal preference shouldn't make loopers different enough to deserve thier own Top 10 List.

 

It's not preference, it's limitations. A wood coaster cannot offer reliably comfortable inversions, neither can a hyper coaster. Since the only ranked top tens fit into these categories...

[adavis]

In the end my thinking basically boils down to: you can, and that would be fine, but you don't need to. The information is more or less out there. I think what you're saying is that loopers need more attention so that they're preserved and innovation can continue. That may be somewhat valid, but I'm not sure that polls would have much influence on that.

 

When the number of loops mattered, they wanted loops. When height mattered, they wanted height. When inverted or flying or any other comfortable looper was announced, it mattered. When Millennium Force arrived, they wanted height, and when Maverick arrived, it was ignored unless you were in the park.

 

Hybrid coasters, Maverick, Fahrenheit, have a place in any park. This is as good a start as any.

[larrygator]

Maverick is amazing, why is it not in the top ten for steel?

 

Because your opinion is not public opinion.

 

My favorite movie of all time is Can't Hardly Wait. Yet somehow I understand why it didn't win any Oscars nor do I spend my spare time wondering why everyone doesn't agree with me.

[adavis]

Maverick is amazing, why is it not in the top ten for steel?

 

Because your opinion is not public opinion.

 

My favorite movie of all time is Can't Hardly Wait. Yet somehow I understand why it didn't win any Oscars nor do I spend my spare time wondering why everyone doesn't agree with me.

 

Why is hyperbole usually so ugly? That quote from me continued, and said; "because of inversions and height".

 

My opinion is simple, short coasters are exempt from the high public rankings, as are inverted coasters, why not a separate list? Where did I ever list Maverick, or any coaster, as a fave? Enjoy Can't Hardly Wait, you might want to try some other flicks, various other films exist.

[larrygator]

Maverick is amazing, why is it not in the top ten for steel?

 

Because your opinion is not public opinion.

 

My favorite movie of all time is Can't Hardly Wait. Yet somehow I understand why it didn't win any Oscars nor do I spend my spare time wondering why everyone doesn't agree with me.

 

Why is hyperbole usually so ugly? That quote from me continued, and said; "because of inversions and height".

 

My opinion is simple, short coasters are exempt from the high public rankings, as are inverted coasters, why not a separate list? Where did I ever list Maverick, or any coaster, as a fave? Enjoy Can't Hardly Wait, you might want to try some other flicks, various other films exist.

 

Once again, covered in the first post. Maverick is amazing, why is it not in the top ten for steel? Height and inversions.

 

Sorry, let me quote you fully. Here is where you said Maverick is amazing.

 

I'd rather not try other movies. I'd rather there be two categories to rate all-time best movies. One of those categories should be limited to comedies made in the late-90's.

[adavis]

UMMM...

 

Didn't I already cop to that? As in remind you? I said Maverick was amazing in both your quotes, and yet you accuse me of acting like its amazing. My point, and why this is hard to grasp is a mystery, is that good rides like Maverick are being ignored because of a lack of height and inclusion of loops.

 

Maverick is a great ride, as are many coasters with inversions, I think a separate ranking could help, maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong.

 

Still not sure on the movie part dude, I'm trying to limit a bias, you seem to think Reality Bites is the be all, end all.

[Six Flags Enthuseast]

It's not preference, it's limitations. A wood coaster cannot offer reliably comfortable inversions, neither can a hyper coaster. Since the only ranked top tens fit into these categories...

 

I'm talking about how coasters are ranked, now why they can't invert.

[robbalvey]

Ok, adavis, I'm going to come right out and just say it...

 

Your being a complete douchebag.

 

You have an opinion. Fine. You wrote the article. Fine.

 

Don't be a dick to people who disagree with you.

 

There is a right and wrong way to present your opinion and get people on board with what you are saying. You are choosing the wrong way to go about it. The way you have responded to most people in this thread is going to turn away someone who might have been on the fence with your idea.

 

For the record, I think the idea has little merit and is unnecessary.

 

--Robb

Edited June 1, 2010 by robbalvey

[Jew]

I just looked at Mitch's poll:

 

2 of the top-10 are looping coasters.

10 of the top-25 are looping coasters.

 

So what's your point? Looping coaster need their own poll because most of them suck and don't deserve a top-25 ranking? The good ones still clearly get recognized.

[redfoot12]

By my count, almost half of Mitch's top 50 have an inversion of some sort. I think I need another explanation about why we need to rank looping coasters separately. The OP's logic is losing me.

[ginzo]

I'm still trying to figure out why the OP believes that woodies would not make an overall top 10 list. In my experience, enthusiasts are generally biased towards wood, especially if you're talking about people from certain coaster clubs. "Wood is king" as they say." Maybe steelies are more popular with the GP, but the GP don't vote in polls or make top 10 lists.